andMr. Moore asked the Minister for Local Government the number of local authority dwellings completed in January, 1976 and January, 1977; and the percentage change.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - House Completions.
23.
A total of 580 dwellings was completed in January, 1976 compared with 275 in the corresponding period of 1977, a percentage change of 52.6 per cent. The low completions figure in January, 1977 was largely due to bad weather and water logging of sites but compared favourably with the 245 dwellings completed in January, 1973, when weather conditions generally were much more favourable.
The Minister is never short of excuses.
I am not giving excuses: I am giving an answer.
Would the Minister agree that the reply he has given portrays a very serious situation? Would he say what he proposese to do to reverse that very serious trend, in which there was over 52 per cent fewer houses built in January, 1977 as compared with January, 1976?
It is a considerable increase on the number built in 1972, the last year for which a Fianna Fáil Minister was in charge. If we take that as a basis, we did quite well, particularly in view of the fact that the weather was so bad. I would suggest to Deputy Faulkner that we wait a little longer and we will be able to prove that the houses are still being built.
Irrespective of the weather.
The weather is improving now.
I hope particular notice has been taken of the fact that there was a 52 per cent decrease in the number of houses built in January. Is the Minister further aware that, taking the unemployment figures for mid-December, 1976 and mid-January, 1977, there has been an increase in the number of unemployed building and construction workers of 1,326? Surely in those circumstances and in a situation in which there has been such a dramatic fall in the number of houses built, the Minister at least should indicate to the House what he proposes to do to improve that situation.
The Deputy is again getting his lines crossed. The number of people employed in building local authority houses is higher now than it was 12 months ago. The number has increased steadily over the years. That is because, as Deputy Lynch might say, we are building too many local authority houses. But we are building them. We will build them this year as we did last year and in every year since I took over.
Question No. 24. A final supplementary from Deputy Faulkner.
Perhaps I should remind the Minister that the figure for unemployment amongst building and construction workers is now 25,882. In those circumstances surely the Minister will at least indicate to the House what he proposes to do to reverse the trend. Surely the Minister accepts—and the country will accept—that it is not sufficient to talk about what happened many years ago. The Minister has now been in office for four years.
Not so many, only a little over four years ago Fianna Fáil were building half the number of houses we are building. Deputy Faulkner imagines everybody has a very short memory if he thinks that sort of codology will be accepted by anybody in the country.
The weather was not too hot either.
Question No. 24.
Does the Minister suggest that a fall of 52 per cent in January, 1977 as compared with January, 1976 is codology, as is the fact that there are 13,026 more building and construction workers unemployed in mid-January than there were in mid-December, 1976?
We have had an average of 15,000 more houses being built than were built under Fianna Fáil for 16 years and the Deputy cannot get away from that.
24.
asked the Minister for Local Government the criteria by which his Department will calculate private housing completions in future, using ESB data on new meter installations.
Since November, 1976, my Department receive from the Electricity Supply Board a monthly return of all new dwellings connected to the electricity supply in each county, excluding local authority demountable dwellings and private house conversions. The number of local authority demountable dwellings is ascertained separately from local authorities and it is estimated that 450 dwellings are now provided each year by the conversion of houses into flats.
The number of dwellings provided by public authorities is ascertained from these authorities. By deducting this number from the total number of dwellings provided, the number of private house completions is calculated. Representatives of the building industry consider that the above methodology offers the best prospect of getting reliable figures of private house completions in 1977.
Would the Minister agree that, as houses under the new system will become completed houses in the statistical sense immediately they are occupied whereas previously they did not become completed in the statistical sense until the final grant was paid—which could be months, and, in some instances, even years after occupation—in the first year at least of the new system completed housing statistics will be artificially swollen and will give an inflated picture of the housing situation?
I am grateful to Deputy Faulkner for believing that we built more houses last year than we did. The situation is that such houses will be counted only when the ESB is connected to them. If Deputy Faulkner has a better idea perhaps he would write me a letter, or call in to see me and let me know because the building industry, the Department of Local Government and the ESB have agreed that this is the best way to do it. If Deputy Faulkner has a better way I should love to hear it.
The supplementary question I asked has not been answered by the Minister. What I am pointing out is that houses which were regarded previously as completed in a statistical sense on the basis of grants paid—which very often were not paid for months or perhaps years after the houses were occupied—will become completed houses in the statistical sense as soon as they are occupied because one must assume that they will be connected to the electricity supply before they are occupied. Therefore, we will have for quite a while, for comparative purposes, an inflated picture of the number of houses actually built.
I am afraid we are not having questions.
Deputy Faulkner is getting somewhat mixed up on statistics. Such houses will be counted only once. If there were houses built last year—as Deputy Faulkner says—or built this year and they are completed and occupied, the fact that they are counted as soon as the ESB connection is made to them is the very same as if they were counted when the grant was paid—the grant can be paid more quickly some times than at other times. It makes no difference at all; they will be counted only once. By no stretch of the imagination could we be connecting now houses built by Fianna Fáil in 1971-72. I think that is what the Deputy is trying to get at.
Question No. 25. A very brief final supplementary question from Deputy Faulkner.
Of course there will be a difference.
Questions please, Deputy Faulkner. We must proceed by way of question, not debate.
Would the Minister not agree that if a house was built in March, 1975 that house would not be reckoned as a housing statistic until the final grant was paid—which could be months later—whereas, in relation to the new system, to which I do not object except for comparative purposes, a house built in March, 1977 would be counted immediately as a statistic and that, therefore, there would be far more houses compressed into the quarter ended 31st March, 1977 than into the quarter ended 31st March, 1975?
Therefore, Deputy Faulkner is saying that we should leave a certain number of houses over until the following year so that the figure would not appear so large. The Deputy is not being very sensible in his question and less sensible in his supplementaries. I cannot see any point in the supplementary questions at all.
I have given Deputy Faulkner every facility and I must move on to the next question.
Would the Minister agree that he has been quoted as saying that there were more than 9,000 ESB connections between November, 1976, and January, 1977, at a time when statistics showed a dramatic decline?
The Deputy is imparting information rather than seeking it.
It is a good job I am because I am not getting any from the Minister.
The Deputy has repeated the same old raiméis again and again in the House. He does not know what he is talking about. I have a certain amount of sympathy with him because he has to try to make the best of a bad brief. He attempts to prove when he gets a reply to a question that it is not the information he wants. He tries to give the impression that everybody, with the exception of himself, makes wrong statements. The situation is that 100,000 houses were built in four years and that is what is sticking in the Deputy's throat.
Pope Tully; infallible.
I should like to assure the Minister that I carry out a thorough research on the questions I put down and I know exactly what I am talking about. It is a fact that there are 26,000 unemployed in the building and construction industry, as I stated.
The Deputy never worked on a building site and he would not know what a building construction worker looks like.
I get more votes from such workers than the Minister.
We will see after the election.