asked the Minister for Justice the steps that will be taken by the Government to eliminate existing ground rents.
8.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Ground Rents.
7.
asked the Minister for Justice when he intends to introduce legislation to abolish existing ground rents; and what form it will take.
9.
asked the Minister for Justice when he intends to introduce a scheme to abolish existing ground rents on domestic properties; and if such abolition will involve the payment of a capital sum by the lessee, namely the householder.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 7, 8 and 9 together. A short Landlord and Tenant Bill will be initiated at a very early date. This will provide for the prohibition of the creation of future ground rents on ordinary dwelling houses. A more comprehensive Bill will follow in which will be included the Government's proposals for the elimination of existing ground rents. I am not yet in a position to give details of these proposals but I hope to introduce the legislation later in the present session.
Could I ask the Minister if he would be prepared to seek to amend the Constitution in relation to the abolition of existing ground rents?
I would not like to answer that for the simple reason that until such time as the Bill is circulated I am not in a position to say what is going to be in it.
Could I ask the Minister whether he accepts, in relation to the creation of future ground rents, that this was provided for in the Landlord and Tenant Bill introduced last February by the former Government?
That is so.
In relation to the abolition of existing ground rents can the Minister tell us the total annual ground rent income in the country today?
I am sorry, I have no information of that sort in my brief, but if I can get it within the Department I will send it to the Deputy in due course.
May we take it that a commitment to abolish the existing residential ground rents was entered into by the Minister and his colleagues without any idea of the cost?
No, I do not think the Deputy would be in order in taking that from my reply. If he wants to put a specific question seeking specific information I would be glad to give it to him. That is a separate question.
Could I ask when this Bill for the abolition of existing ground rents is to be introduced?
I have said that. In case the Deputy might have missed it, I said that I hoped to introduce legislation in the present session dealing with this matter.
Is it correct that the Minister gave a commitment by letter around 24th May last to Action that such legislation would be introduced within six months of the Government coming to power?
That is so, and I have every intention of honouring it.
I suspect that the Minister may not have in his Department the information in relation to the value of ground rents, so might I suggest that he inquire of the Revenue Commissioners what their information is about ground rents? They have, or ought to have, the information necessary.
I thank the Deputy. If he asks a question I would be inclined to give him an answer.
That is a question.
No, the Deputy is telling me of his suspicions.
If the Minister has not the information in his Department will he seek it where it ought to be on record?
If I say I have not the information in my Department I am saying that the information sought by the Deputy was not sought in the original question. I have not got it in my brief.
The Minister said that if it was in his Department he would give it. I suggest to him now that if it is not there he might seek the information where it is on record.
May I draw the Minister's attention to the second part of my question, which has not been replied to, asking if the abolition of the ground rents on residential properties will lead to a payment on the part of the lessee, that is the householder?
I answered the question in full in the reply that I gave originally.
The Minister has not answered whether or not the householder will be required to make a payment.
I answered the question in full in my reply to a supplementary question from Deputy Browne when I said that I am not in a position to say what is going to be in the legislation until such time as it is circulated.
This aspect is the kernel of the entire promise to abolish ground rents. People were led to believe that they would have their ground rents abolished without payment. That is the situation, and we are asking the Minister if he is going to abolish ground rents without payment, how is he going to do that, or will people have to pay.
I am afraid the Deputy will have to wait until such time as the Bill is circulated.
The Deputy is anticipating legislation.
And so will hundreds of thousands of householders who were fooled have to wait.
Surely the Minister must at least be able to say whether or not his proposals will involve a constitutional amendment, as he gave an unequivocal pledge prior to the election to bring in a scheme of legislation leading to the abolition of ground rents. Would he agree that it would be reasonable for us to presume that he would not have given that pledge unless he was conscious of the constitutional implications of such a promise?
Without wishing to repeat myself, I would like to tell the Deputy that when my proposals are ready and when the Bill is ready for circulation, then questions on my proposals can be asked and I am quite prepared to answer them.
Is the Minister saying that he gave a pledge without having considered whether or not a constitutional amendment would be necessary?
I am afraid the Deputy will be disappointed when I do introduce my Bill, which I will do before this session is out.