asked the Minister for Finance if he is aware that the present hours during which the Income Tax Office, Dublin is open to the public are inconvenient, particularly for the ordinary worker; the steps he proposes to take to redress this situation; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Dublin Income Tax Office.
23.
Income tax offices are normally open to personal callers continuously from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. on Monday to Friday inclusive. I understand from the Revenue Commissioners that this arrangement has operated for many years and appears to have been generally satisfactory.
In the circumstances it is not intended at present to alter the existing arrangements. If, however, the need for some change becomes evident I would propose to have the matter further examined.
Is the Minister aware that from time to time many workers who may not live adjacent to the tax office have been asked to call into the office and they find that it is closed when they cease working and it is also closed at the week-end when they are free to go in? Does he not feel that there should be some time provided to facilitate those workers who live or work some distance away from the office?
I have information of three experiments that were made in this regard. The first one was during the introduction of PAYE in 1960 when tax offices throughout the country remained open to the public from 5.30 p.m. to 9 p.m. on Monday to Friday inclusive. This service was discontinued as soon as the demand abated. Then, some years later, there were certain arrangements made to provide a service in Liberty Hall on a Saturday morning but the response was very poor. In 1974 arrangements were made, following representations from trade unions, to have one Dublin PAYE office in O'Connell Street open to the public from 6.30 p.m. to 8.30 p.m. on three consecutive Tuesday nights but the response was very poor and it was discontinued.
While agreeing with the Minister that this may be so would he not consider allowing the office in O'Connell Street to remain open even one evening in the week after normal working hours or, alternatively, open it for an hour or two hours on a Saturday morning? The people who complained to me were at Dublin Airport. While it is true in some cases that the employer will allow those people off, would the Minister agree that it is not proper that the onus should be on the employer to allow the employees off? Does he not also agree that this may cause some friction between the workers and the staff if they are asking to get off at awkward hours?
I would be inclined to agree with the Deputy in theory and to feel that there might be a much bigger demand for this than there appears to be. I would also point out to him that from the point of view of the Revenue Commissioners it is not as straightforward as it looks because they would have to provide staff who are versed in various technicalities of income tax. It is not just a question of detailing a few people to serve extra hours. It is a bit more complicated than that. I would be quite prepared to contemplate dealing with the difficulties involved if I was satisfied that the demand was there. I have indicated to the Deputy that the evidence so far suggests that the demand is not there. If evidence becomes available of an increase in demand I would certainly review the situation.
Surely the Minister will agree that the very fact that the office remains open during working hours is an indication that it is there to facilitate workers? I am sure he will also agree that there are many workers who may not be able to get to the office during the lunchtime break. This would necessitate opening for an hour after normal office hours.
As I have indicated if we get any evidence of any worthwhile demand for this service I will certainly consider providing it.
Would the Minister agree that previous experiments, laudable as they were, failed largely because people did not know about them. There is no point introducing innovations unless they are widely advertised. Would the Minister not agree, as Minister for Finance and the Public Service, that there is something very ironic about a public service administration which is closed during times when people are available to use it, and that there is need for a look at this again?
With regard to the first part of the Deputy's supplementary I must say that the thought he put forward occurred to me and I intended to examine it. With regard to the second part of the supplementary I do not agree that there is anything ironic involved in the absence of evidence of demand for this service from the public. As I said before if there is evidence of such a demand I will certainly reconsider it.
How will the demand manifest itself?
There are various ways in which it could.
Would the Minister take Deputy Belton's and my queries as evidence that there is need for this?
It is not sufficient.
If we keep on asking will it be sufficient?
No.
If we got a Fianna Fáil query as well would that be sufficient?
Even that would not be sufficient.