With this motion we are also discussing No. 5, a motion relating to the Fifth, Sixth, Seventh and Ninth Reports on developments in the European Communities. Deputy Richie Ryan was in possession. We shall wait a few minutes for the speaker.
Developments in the European Communities—Tenth Report: Motion (Resumed).
Debate resumed on the following motion :
That Dáil Éireann takes note of the Report : Developments in the European Communities—Tenth Report. —(Minister for Foreign Affairs.)
I apologise for the delay. I understand that Deputy Ryan was in possession on this motion. Is there anybody replying to it?
Deputy Ryan has only started and I would not consider it very fair to take advantage of the situation if he is about to turn up within a reasonable time. We decided that we would wait a few minutes for Deputy Ryan.
I understand that maybe Deputy Ryan is not in the country.
I gather he is not in the precincts of the House.
We are having difficulty in locating the Deputy. We have no objection to going ahead.
Is there any other speaker offering? I call on the Parliamentary Secretary to reply to the motion.
I did not have the opportunity to be here during the discussion on the 10th Report but the Minister tok a very careful note of what Deputy Ryan said in his contribution and agreed with many of the points raised by the Deputy. Deputy Ryan expressed concern that debates on European affairs be held on a regular basis. The Minister shares that concern and hopes that debates such as the one we are now dealing with and debates on the reports on developments in the European Communities will provide a suitable opportunity for broad discussion. The Minister also agrees that debates should be held as soon as possible after publication of the reports, and feels that it should also be possible for the House to consider reports of the Joint Committee on the Secondary Legislation of the European Community at the same time.
In moving the motion on the 13th October the Minister mentioned that we were looking forward to the visit the following day of the commissioner in charge of agriculture and fisheries, Mr. Gundelach. The Minister believes that the visit was very valuable because it afforded two Ministers an opportunity to make personal contact with Commissioner Gundelach in a relaxed atmosphere away from the pressures attendant on council meetings in Brussels and because they could discuss in a constructive way a wide range of important problems of particular interest to us at present. In this respect the Minister believes that the talks were useful to both sides. On the fisheries question the Minister for Fisheries, Mr. Lenihan, and the Minister for Foreign Affairs took the opportunity to reiterate the Government's conviction that in the revised fishery policy Ireland must retain a broad exclusive coastal zone, that being the only effective way to ensure conservation and the access to fish stocks necessary for the expansion of the Irish fishing industry and shore-based activity dependent on increased catches. A discussion took place on the new commission proposals, which had only just emerged, on catch quotas for the member states for 1978, on control and conservation measures throughout the 200 mile zone, on structural assistance to the fishing industry, and on financial assistance from the Community for the cost of fishing protection. Of necessity these discussions were of a preliminary nature as the documents needed to be studied in detail, but they afforded an opportunity to Mr. Gundelach to explain the Commission's thinking. The Ministers for Foreign Affairs and for Fisheries made it clear that the discussions were without prejudice to our general position on a coastal zone.
There was a most useful discussion on the agricultural side, between the Ministers for Agriculture and Economic Planning and Development and the commissioner on a broad range of issues of current importance. These included for example, the question of changes in the directives on structures, the common organisations of the market for sheep meat, the monetary compensation amounts and the Commission's recent memorandum on the beef support arrangements. On structures proposals are expected from the commission shortly and the Ministers emphasised their deep concern that the changes to be proposed should meet the needs of Irish agriculture.
In relation to the MCA question. Deputy Ryan mentioned the danger of a repetition of the sort of situation which we faced about a year ago when these charges to currency fluctuations became a very serious burden on our agricultural exports. The Minister entirely agrees with the Deputy that this is a most important matter for us as large net exporters. It is essential that there should be progressive reduction and abolition of MCAs throughout the Community. The Minister was glad to say that Commissioner Gundelach was able to assure him that revised proposals could be expected from the Commission in the very near future. Deputy Ryan referred to the danger of weakening of the common agricultural policy as a result of the enlargement of the Community through the admission of the present applicant countries. The Minister did not feel it appropriate at the time to go into the details of the problems of enlargement but he assures the House and Deputy Ryan, in particular, that it is a cardinal principle of Irish Government policy to ensure that in any enlargement process, the principles and mechanisms of the common agricultural policy will be safeguarded.
During the course of Deputy Ryan's contribution the Minister noted that he referred to the Regional Fund as a mere pittance. The Minister agrees with that. This view is shared in Commission circles as well. In the course of an address to the European Parliament earlier this year. Mr. Jenkins, the President of the Commission, referred to it as "tiny". If the Regional Fund is to have any significant impact on the poorer regions of the Community it will have to be increased substantially. Something on the lines of a new "Marshall Aid" programme, which would transfer resources from the richer centre to the poorer peripheral regions, is what is really required. As the Minister indicated last week the budget for the Regional Fund for 1978 has not yet finally been fixed. The Commission's original proposal was that 750 million European units of account should be allocated to the fund's budget. At the present exchange rate this works out at somewhat less than £400 million. Of this Ireland can expect a commitment for next year of £20 million at the very most. The entire £400 million would not be too much if our regional problems were to be considered seriously by our partners. The Minister feels that the Community still lacks the political will to tackle its regional problems. Unless there is a complete change in the attitudes of the richer member states this situation will continue.
Deputy Ryan also referred to the trading surpluses being accumulated by some of our partners and how these surpluses compare to their reluctance to contribute to the Community's fund. Even more interesting is the comparison between the Community's budget and the total national budgets of the member states. The draft Community budget for 1978 before it was cut back was a mere 2.3 per cent of the total national budgets of the Nine. The Regional Fund is only about 6 per cent of the Community's budget. The Minister feels that he need hardly say that we will continue to strive to improve the benefit under the fund. As the Minister indicated earlier, the regulations governing the distribution of the fund are at present under review. It is hoped to complete this examination by the end of the year.
It is proposed that in future the fund will be distributed partly by quota as at present and partly outside that system. The Irish Government support in principle the idea that the fund should have a non-quota part. It will give a flexibility which is not possible under the fixed quota system. The Government will, however, resist most strongly any attempts to use this section of the fund to help regions outside the present designated regions or to aid problems which are not strictly regional in character. The fund's resources are already meagre and we feel they should be confined to regional problems in the areas which most urgently require help.
The Commission have also made a number of suggestions which if accepted will make the administration of the fund more efficient and effective. Firstly, applications for aid at present can be made only for infrastructural projects which are directly linked to industrial projects already being aided. It is now proposed to remove this link, and since we have found this provision rather restrictive in the past we welcome this change. Secondly, the Commission propose that the system of payment would be speeded up, and this would also be welcomed by the Government and the Minister for Foreign Affairs. It is understood that there is no proposal to change the present quotas. Deputies will recall that ours stands at about 6.5 per cent, but should the question arise we will press for a share which will reflect more accurately the seriousness of our regional problems compared to the rest of the Community.
The Minister has asked me to refer specifically to the question of elections to the European Parliament, and Deputies have a special knowledge of this, having regard to the fact that the time of both Houses, the Dáil and the Seanad, has been taken up with the European Elections Bill. The prospective date for the European direct elections is May or June of next year. That date was first recommended by the heads of state at the meeting of the European Council held in Rome on 1st and 2nd December, 1975. This recommendation was subsequently incorporated in the Council decision of 20th September, 1976, which set down the broad provisions governing the holding of the elections.
The May/June, 1978, deadline therefore represents a commitment by the member states at the highest level that direct elections will be held on that date. The Government support that commitment and furthermore consider it our vital concern to do everything possible to ensure that all the other member states will also be in a position to meet the deadline. This means that not only must we in Ireland be ready to hold direct elections in May or June, 1978, but the other member states should be in a similar position. The Minister has made this clear at every opportunity to date and especially when the member states have discussed this matter in the Council. There can thus be no mistaking Ireland's attitude towards direct elections. I have already mentioned that the legislation in connection with the realisation of that ideal as already expressed is about to become law.
Does the Parliamentary Secretary have any views on the British situation?
Arising out of the Deputy's question, I had the opportunity in the company of the Minister for Foreign Affairs to meet with the British Foreign Secretary, Dr. David Owen, and his Minister of State for the Foreign Office, Mr. Frank Judd, recently and, whilst the discussions were far-ranging, mention of direct elections did arise and we put our situation very clearly to the British on that occasion. We left them in no doubt as to where we stood. I understand, again from my knowledge of the matter, that the British are taking a very serious view of it. There is a problem there in relation to the question of whether it will be a regional list system or whether the present form of election in Britain will be the test. There is a conflict there between the regional list system and "first past the post". That is nearing resolution in the British context. We are hopeful that all nations within the EEC will be ready for the May/June deadline.
Is it proposed to go ahead without the British if they are not ready?
I think the Deputy will agree that, in line with the ideal of European unity, it might introduce an element of discord into that ideal.
The Parliamentary Secretary should make his speech and not be questioned at this stage.
I am trying to help the Deputy. As Deputies well know, it is not merely a matter of holding direct elections. We must also do everything in our power to make sure they are a resounding success. We as politicians and the political parties have a special responsibility in this regard and we must avail of every opportunity to bring home to the electorate the importance of direct elections and the potential they will give to the European Parliament to help create a community which will not only be better but which will be more responsive to the people's interests and desires. A good poll is, therefore, essential because it is, after all, ultimately the degree to which the electorate participate in the direct election which will determine the impact which the European Parliament can have on the future development of the Community. The greater this impact the better it will be for long-term interests of the Community. One of the main defects of the Community up to now is a lack of real participation. This has meant that the institutions have had to operate in an atmosphere in which they are not subject to direct democratic control, and this effectively is what the direct elections would be all about. It would be involving the people directly for the first time in Europe. Direct elections will help to change that situation and ensure that Community policies reflect the real needs of the people. To perform this function effectively, however, it would be necessary for the European Parliament to possess the strong mandate which can come only from a good poll. It is, therefore, in all our interests to ensure that the direct elections are successful. The Government are fully committed to this.
I hope that Deputy R. Ryan in his absence will not feel that he was taken short. I understand from the Minister that the Deputy may have made his full contribution, and we are not making any issue about his absence or otherwise.
I commend the Tenth Report to the House.
Question put and agreed to.
Motion No. 5 was discussed with No. 9. Would the Parliamentary Secretary please move Motion No. 5?
I move:
That Dáil Éireann takes note of the reports: Developments in the European Communities—Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth and Ninth Reports.
Question put and agreed to.