asked the Minister for Education if he has had consultations with the Teachers' Union of Ireland about the proposed deed of trust for community schools.
28.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Community Schools.
27.
asked the Minister for Education why he set aside his personal guarantee to the Teachers' Union of Ireland that he would not sign the deeds of trust for community schools without full prior consultation with the union.
29.
asked the Minister for Education if he will take steps to ensure adequate representation for teachers on the boards of community schools.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take questions Nos. 27, 28 and 29 together.
A meeting in connection with the signing of the proposed deed of trust took place with a delegation from the Teachers' Union of Ireland on Thursday, 4 May. The views put forward by the delegation will be given due consideration in connection with further examination of all relevant matters.
I have already stated that I am in favour of the principle of teacher representation on the boards of management of community schools and I do not anticipate that there would be any insuperable obstacle in arriving at agreement on suitable arrangements in that regard.
Would the Minister explain to the House what is the purpose of consultation if the effective decision anounced by him to sign these documents has already been taken? Would he further tell the House whether, if he were, as he once was, president of the Association of Secondary Teachers', he would regard the consultation process he is currently going through as adequate?
The second part is hypothesis but I will deal with it on that basis. The purpose of the consultations I am having at present with the unions and managerial bodies is to arrive at a consensus with regard to the deed of trust, which deed of trust I will sign when we have reached consensus on it, as I promised I would. This thing has been on ice for 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977; this is 1978 and it is time something was done about it. The answer to the Deputy's question is that I am in consultation with all the relevant authorities so that we can arrive at a mutually acceptable deed of trust.
With regard to the hypothetical question if I were president of the Association of Secondary Teachers' of Ireland, as I once was, would I regard the type of consultation going on at present as adequate, I most certainly would. I would say that it is the best possible form of consultation. I would be in praise of the affability, malleability and adaptability of the Minister.
And changeability.
Unpredictability.
Could the Minister clarify one of his recent statements in relation to this deed of trust? Could he inform the House whether he regards himself as being committed to signing any deed of trust in the form of the draft deed of trust for Tallaght which is presently lodged in the Oireachtas Library? Does he regard himself as having a commitment to signing that deed in its present form or any other deed in similar form?
The Minister regards himself as bound to sign a deed of trust when he has worked out the details of it with the Teachers' Union of Ireland, the Association of Secondary Teachers of Ireland and the managerial bodies.
But not necessarily in that order.
Does the Minister's current round of consultations relate to the original community schools or are they related only to future schools?
They are related to the whole question of a deed of trust for community schools as a concept, which concept was brought into reality in the early 1970s.
In view of the Minister's current round of consultations, why did the Minister say on one day that he was going to sign it and, on the next, that he was going to have a round of consultations?
I said I will sign the deed of trust as soon as we have finalised its format.
Can the Minister say, if he is anxious to have a concensus before these deeds are signed, why, less than a month ago, he wrote to one of the parties concerned asking them to sign the deed in its original form and indicating that he wanted the deed signed in that form at that time?
That is what the Minister means by malleability.
If I may, without interruption from Deputy Kelly, if I want to set up a mènage à trois and Barkis is willing and Peggotty is willing but the third party is not, well then I cannot do any signing.
30.
asked the Minister for Education his reasons for seeking consultations with interested parties involved in community schools; the changes he will be seeking in the deeds of trust for (a) existing community schools and (b) future community schools; and if he will make a comprehensive statement of policy in this matter.
I was given to understand that there were certain provisions in the model deed of trust which some of the educational interests involved considered should be raised before the deed in the case of any individual school should be signed. I, accordingly, arranged to meet all the educational interests involved for a discussion of the relevant provisions of the deed.
Pending conclusion of the discussions which have been initiated I do not consider that it would be appropriate for me to make a statement in relation to the issues which may form the subject of such discussions.
Why did the Minister state categorically that he was about to sign a number of deeds of trust?
I am going to sign deeds of trust.
Yes, but in their original form.
That is the Deputy's——
The Minister said he was carrying out the undertakings of his predecessors.
Which predecessor? Three or four cogs have intervened.
Predecessors. Practically within 24 hours the Minister has changed his tactics and has decided to go off on a round of negotiations and consultations.
I am calling the next question.
A Houdini act.
Just one brief supplementary. Is the Minister aware of the allegation which has been published to the effect that he stated he would sign a document—that he would alter a document he later admitted not having read? Would the Minister comment on this very serious allegation?
It depends on the source of the allegation. I am accustomed to attacks from the media and I am not a bit worried about them.
Questions Nos. 31 and 32 are for written reply.