asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he has removed the anomaly whereby a widow who attains qualifying age for non-contributory old age pension has her means assessed in a harsher manner than obtains for non-contributory widows pension.
Ceisteanna—Questions . Oral Answers . - Social Welfare Benefits .
17.
: The assessment of means for non-contributory widows' pensions differs from that applicable to non-contributory old age pensions only in relation to the calculation of the yearly value of capital and other property not personally used or enjoyed. All widow pensioners reaching the qualifying age for old age pension would not, therefore, be affected by the different method of calculation used for old age pensions.
The assessment of the yearly value of capital is one of a number of matters dealt with in an inquiry into the operation of the means test which was carried out in my Department and the report of which is at present under examination. Any modification in the existing provisions would require amending legislation.
: Would the Minister not agree that it is a ridiculous state of affairs that a person who is in benefit for a widow's pension can go out of benefit on reaching the qualifying age for an old age pension without any change in her means because of the different method of assessment of capital? Would he not agree to take immediate action to remove that anomaly.
: I agree it is anomalous.
: Would he agree to remove the anomaly?
: I have explained that it would require amending legislation.
: We are not very busy——
: The Minister has the power to introduce legislation.
: Does the Minister intend to bring in amending legislation because, as he is aware, it is peculiar that the dividends from income should increase from 5 per cent to 10 per cent when a widow reaches 65 years of age. The Minister will agree that when a person is growing older his difficulties are increasing and, instead of the means test being more harsh, it should be milder. This is something that should be dealt with without undue delay.
: I agree it is anomalous and it has been anomalous for a number of years.
: We all agree the sin is wrong but it is in the Minister's hands to remove it.
18.
asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will agree to the provision of a weekly allowance to widowers with children under the age of 16 years, and who have a limited income to enable them to provide domestic help for their families.
: I have no plans at present for the introduction of a scheme on the lines suggested.
19.
asked the Minister for Social Welfare why the unemployment benefit claim of a person (details supplied) in County Meath has been refused; and why her appeal has been disallowed at Drogheda, County Louth, by an appeals officer.
: The unemployment benefit claim of the person concerned was disallowed by a deciding officer on the grounds that she was not available for employment. Her appeal which was held at the employment exchange, Drogheda, and at which she attended and gave evidence, was disallowed by an appeals officer on the same grounds.
As the Deputy is aware deciding officers and appeals officers are independent in the performance of their duties and it would be inappropriate for me to comment on their decisions.
: Having regard to the undertaking in the Fianna Fáil Manifesto to treat women equally with men and to the Minister having said that he delivered on his promises, is it not most unfair that a woman who was employed for a long number of years but who was dismissed because of redundancy and was in receipt of redundancy payments should be disallowed unemployment benefit subsequently merely because the State wishes to save money?
: I should hope that the deciding officer or the appeals officer would not approach their task with the sole purpose of saving State money. These are independent officers with statutory obligations and duties and it is not for me to comment on their decisions.
: The Minister is responsible for health and social welfare and the people who operate the various schemes work within the regulations laid down by the Government——
: Laid down by the House.
: ——but is it not the position that since Fianna Fáil were returned to office hundreds of people have been treated as the lady referred to in the question has been treated? Is there any explanation for this situation other than the effort to carry out the promise of the Minister for Economic Planning and Development to save £30 million in the area of social welfare benefits? Is the Minister aware that a letter was sent to me suggesting that the lady concerned submit documents stating that she had not been able to obtain employment and that she should sign with the local manpower agency? There is the suggestion that if she acted in this way her case might be considered. Surely there is something wrong in this whole area, and has not the change occurred within the past 12 months?
: The Deputy is not correct in saying that there has been a change in the administration of his schemes during the past 12 months. The same schemes, the same deciding officers and the same regulations are there now as were there when the Deputy was a Minister, and there has not issued from me or from my Department any instruction to change the situation.
: In those circumstances can the Minister explain why the lady in question has not been able to draw unemployment benefit although all those people who had been laid off up to the past 12 months by the firm concerned had been able to draw unemployment benefit? The same firm are again, because of a fall in trade, to lay off a further 80 workers. Would the evidence not suggest that there has been a hint to the officers concerned to tighten up in the area of social welfare?
: It is immaterial to me whether the Deputy accepts my word, but I reiterate that there has been no indication from me or from my Department to deciding officers or to appeals officers in this area.
: Neither is there equal treatment for women although this was promised in the manifesto.
: The Statutes and the regulations are the same as they were when the Deputy was in minsterial office.
: Apart from the lady in Meath would the Minister not agree that it is very difficult for married women to sustain applications for unemployment benefit? The returns indicate that most of the claims are disallowed or rejected.
: The question relates to a specific case.
: The Minister must know that there has been some change in the regulations or in the instructions given to the officers concerned.
: There has been no change in the regulations. In order for them to be changed the proposed change would have to be put before the House.
20.
asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he has any proposals to bring self-employed artists within the scope of the social welfare legislation; if so, the precise benefits such artists would be entitled to; and the manner in which they would be classified.
21.
asked the Minister for Social Welfare the extent to which a painter or sculptor or someone otherwise engaged in a full time capacity in the visual arts in Ireland can benefit from our social welfare provisions.
: With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 20 and 21 together.
Any person engaged in a full-time capacity in the visual arts in Ireland who is employed under a contract of service would be insurable under the Social Welfare Acts as an employee and eligible for benefits and pensions under those Acts.
Self-employed artists, like all other self-employed persons, are not at present insurable under the Social Welfare Acts but they may avail of the social assistance services, all of which are subject to a means test. Children's allowances are, of course, payable to all persons with qualified children regardless of means.
As the Deputy is no doubt aware, a Green Paper on Social Insurance for the Self-Employed was published last January with the aim of stimulating a general and informed discussion on the subject. Interested parties and organisations representative of various groups of self-employed were invited to submit their views. When all submissions have been received and examined, I hope to be in a position to formulate an acceptable scheme for the insurance of self-employed persons including artists.
: Has the Minister sought submissions from the Arts Council on the specific needs of self-employed artists?
: No, but there is nothing to prevent the Arts Council submitting their views on that matter.
22.
asked the Minister for Social Welfare if his attention has been drawn to a report (details supplied) regarding offers of employment being refused by persons in receipt of unemployment assistance; and, if so, the steps he proposes to take to remedy this highly undesirable situation.
: The report in question, which has been brought to my attention, is erroneous and misleading. In view of the wide publicity which it has received I propose to give the full facts of the matter.
The Athlone Urban District Council proposed to employ about 15 people on amenity development work under the Environmental Improvements Schemes Programme 1978 and requested the National Manpower Service in Athlone to submit the names of suitable people for interview. Of those to be employed at least three out of every four were to be schoolleavers under 25 years of age who had not had previous employment experience. The basic weekly pay offered was £55 and the employment was expected to last for six months.
The National Manpower Service arranged an interview session and invited 147 young people, male and female, who were on their schoolleavers register to call to their office to discuss the proposed employment with them and with a representative of the urban district council. Of these only 12 turned up for interview. A further interview session was arranged by the National Manpower Service for which ten others turned up.
After the first interview session the National Manpower Service requested the employment exchange in Athlone to submit the names and addresses of suitable persons who were registered as unemployed. The exchange forwarded a list of 42 names who were called for interview. Of the 42 persons, 12 failed to turn up for interview. Of the remaining 30, offers of employment were made to 11 of whom six took up work and remained in the employment.
The claims for unemployment benefit and assistance of the 42 persons concerned were then reviewed by the employment exchange in accordance with normal practice. As a result of this action payment is no longer being made to 23 of them. These are the 11 persons to whom offers of employment were made and 12 persons who failed to turn up for interview. The remaining 19 attended for interview but were not offered employment and their entitlements are not affected.
In conclusion I wish to emphasise that the situation was dealt with in accordance with the normal well-established procedures. These require that where placement officers have been notified of vacancies which they are unable to fill they should apply to the local Social Welfare office for the names of suitable persons. The local office supplies those persons with introduction cards and the placement officer reports back to the Social Welfare officer whether the persons have attended for interview and whether they have been given offers of employment.
: Since the Minister has said that the statement concerned was misleading and having regard to the front-page prominence given to the matter in one of our national newspapers, would he not consider it necessary at least to advise the newspaper to print a correction?
: Yes.
: The Minister seems to have good contacts with the Press.
: I am glad that Deputy Belton tabled the question because I was very annoyed when I read the report. It seemed to indicate that there were many lay-abouts in the area concerned, people who would not work, whereas the reverse is the case. However, I trust that the reply I have given today will be given publicity equal to the publicity that was given to the other story.
: Is the Minister aware, too, that the report indicated that 40 or 50 girls took up the employment that had been offered to the other people?
: The facts are as I have given them.
23.
andMr. Boland asked the Minister for Social Welfare the estimated additional annual revenue of each of the proposed increases of 135 per cent in the higher rate, 142 per cent in the middle rate, and 112 per cent in the lower rate of the weekly wet time contribution; and the estimated cost of the equivalent proposed increase in benefit of 16 per cent in the highest rate of benefit, 16 per cent in the middle rate of benefit, and 23 per cent in the lowest rate of benefit.
: The estimated additional annual revenue at the increased rates introduced on 22 May 1978 will be: (a) Skilled workers, £363,690; (b) unskilled workers, £398,574 and (c) young persons, £14,904.
The estimated additional annual cost of the increased rates of "wetTime" benefit payable from 22 May 1978 will be: (a) skilled workers, £86,925; (b) unskilled workers, £154,042 and (c) young persons, £7,033.
: In view of the great difference between the additional cost as against the additional amount of revenue, would the Minister say why he increased the rates at the levels he did?
: In 1977 the situation went completely out of order. The income from the fund was £561,311 and the expenditure was £944,907. The expenditure from the fund in 1978 has amounted to £462,768 up to 31 May and receipts amounted only to £263,369. The Deputy will see from those figures that that situation could not carry on. The Exchequer had to come to the aid of the fund or else it would be completely bankrupt.
: The Minister now anticipates getting over £500,000 more by contributions than he anticipates paying out by the increased payments?
: It was almost £500,000 short in 1977-78.
: It was £383,000 short, not £500,000.
: It was running another £200,000 short up to May of this year, but that situation could not carry on. We are endeavouring to bring the fund back into balance.
: In view of the fact that the fund was £383,000 short in its operation during 1977, can the Minister say how he justifies an anticipated additional net income of over £500,000? It might have been fair if the Minister increased the level of contribution to make the fund self-supporting, but this will be a profit making fund.
: The Deputy either does not understand or is deliberately misleading on these figures.
: This will be profit making now.
: It is not profit making. It is designed, to the best extent we can judge the situation, to put the fund back into balance.
24.
asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he is aware that it is almost impossible for a single woman to qualify for a single woman's allowance, unless she is living alone; and, if so, if he will revise the regulations.
: I do not agree that the position is as stated by the Deputy. A recent survey shows that almost 60 per cent of those at present in receipt of single woman's allowance are, in fact, living with relatives or other persons.
: It seems from the Minister's reply that the single women in my constituency are having a very lean time because when a single woman is living in a house with no rights of any kind, living with brothers or any other relatives——
: A question, please.
: Is the Minister aware that, if someone is maintaining you, so much has to go for board and lodging and straight away the allowance is reduced by £4 to £5? This is very unfair. Will the Minister not instruct the social welfare officers in west Cork to take the objective view, which is taken in other areas, having regard to the fact that 60 per cent of the applicants qualify for the maximum rate? Will he not ensure that they do their job properly? I assume the Minister's answer is correct, so there is some lack of understanding of the regulations by some people who make reports in the southwest Cork area. I ask that immediate attention be given to that because I do not know any single woman living alone who is getting the maximum rate.
: I would be very distressed to think that west Cork was being singled out for unfair treatment.