asked the Minister for Health if the Government have fixed a proportion of GNP to be allocated to his Department for (a) 1979, (b) 1980 and (c) 1981; and, if so, what that proportion is.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Health Allocation.
4.
No decision has been taken by the Government regarding the proportion of GNP to be allocated for health services in the years 1979, 1980 and 1981. Such decisions will be taken at the appropriate time having regard to general planning considerations for the development of the economy and of the health services.
I hesitate to remind the Minister that is very much akin to a similar reply which he gave me some time ago when I asked the same question.
Since then the Green Paper has been published and various options have been outlined. The next step in the planning circuit—I nearly made a Freudian slip there—is the White Paper.
Then the Orange Paper.
The planning circle. In that, the decision would be taken as to the proportion of GNP. If the Deputy looks at the figures he would see that the proportion of GNP has been fairly well settled since 1974 at around 6 per cent. This year it will be 6.25 per cent of the Estimates.
It is because of the Green Paper that I asked the subsequent question. The Green Paper appears to indicate there might be a lessening of the proportion of GNP to be devoted to health. Prior to the election the Minister's party undertook to fix a proportion of GNP for a foreseeable number of years to be allocated for health to allow for proper planning.
There are many variables. There is the level of GNP itself and there is the proportion of budgetary expenditure. All these must be taken into account in deciding on the level but as I said there seems to be some natural order, prevailing over the last few years anyway, which seems to have settled the proportion at around 6 per cent.
Is the Minister saying that he envisages the level of GNP at the present level, 6 per cent? Will the Minister give an undertaking that contained in the White Paper will be a specific level for the proportion of GNP to be allocated to the health services?
The Deputy had better address that question to my colleague, the Minister for Economic Planning and Development who is primarily responsible for the preparation—
I remind the House at this stage that we are running on to a quarter of the time and very few questions have been dealt with. In fairness to those who would like their questions to be reached I shall have to curtail the number of supplementaries.
In view of the pervasive propaganda against increased health expenditure from a number of quarters, including his own party and one Minister in particular, does the Minister feel it incumbent on him perhaps at some future date to spell out in a White Paper or another Green Paper from his Department the true facts? We thank the Minister for his recent publication of a statistical nature but surely there is need now for him to defend the position particularly against those from Trinity College who would have us emasculate all health expenditure.
(Interruptions).
Some decision appears to have been taken on this assumption—I make that statement—that the Minister has been asked clearly to find the money otherwise than from central funds through his proposed insurance scheme which will produce funds far in excess of the requirements of the extension of the scheme. In these circumstances would the Minister not agree that it is fair to assume that the Minister's allocation is either cut or going to be cut?
The Deputy may not make any such assumption. My new proposals are simply an extension of the existing scheme of health contributions. Even at the level proposed for the health contribution the fund will still be only a drop in the ocean compared with the overall expenditure on the health services.
In reply to a previous question the Minister said that the percentage of GNP devoted to the health services was only one factor—
In the level of services you get.
At the same time, there was a commitment in the manifesto published regarding a percentage of the GNP being allocated over a number of years so that forward planning could be done. What factors have arisen since the manifesto that would change the commitment given in it?
The first thing is that during 1978 we maintained the percentage of GNP devoted to the health services and in fact increased it slightly. The latest estimate is that in 1978 it will be 6.25 per cent as against 6.07 per cent in the previous year. The second factor is that the Government, as the Deputy knows, are engaged in the Economic and Social Development Plan in planning the economic and social development of the country from 1977 to 1980. That will be dealt with in a White Paper to be published at the end of this year. Whatever provisions are to be made for health and all the other various social services will be included in that overall economic plan.
The Minister promised that would be in the Green Paper; it was not.
A commitment was given by the present Government in an election manifesto that a certain percentage of GNP would be made available over a period so that one could project and plan ahead—
That projected plan is not yet published. It will be published towards the end of this year. The Green Paper only published options.
The manifesto clearly indicated the Government's intentions in regard to health as it did in regard to food subsidies—
The Deputy must not be able to read. The Green Paper published options and clearly indicated that specific proposals would be coming out in a White Paper at the end of this year.
Is the Minister not aware that in the Green Paper practically all the options put forward would necessitate a cut in the Estimate for the Department for which he is responsible?
The Opposition parties seem to be terribly anxious to secure some sort of cut in the health services. There will be no cuts.
We want the Minister to win.
They are trying to put words into my mouth to say that I will cut the health services. I want to give them this assurance: I will not cut the health services in any way.
Will anybody else?
(Cavan-Monaghan): Is it not a fact that the Minister is withdrawing health cards by the hundreds all over the country?
On a point of order, it has taken 22 minutes to answer four questions. There are 435 questions on the Order Paper.
Thank you very much, Deputy.
At the rate of 12 per day we will be through the Order Paper by next April.
The Deputy is adding to it now.
I would ask the Minister to be brief in his replies.
By next April our health services will be better and even more fully developed than they are now.