It is proposed to take Business in the following order: Nos. 6 (resumed), 3, 7, and 8. By agreement, there will be no interruption for Private Members' Business today.
Order of Business.
With the permission of the Chair I wish to raise on the Adjournment the question of the work-to-rule by engineers employed by local authorities.
I shall communicate with the Deputy.
(Cavan-Monaghan): On the Order of Business, I should like to point out that four times in the past ten days I endeavoured to raise in this House the breakdown of local services and local employment schemes operated by local authorities but the Chair did not give me permission to do so.
I shall communicate with the Deputy.
(Cavan-Monaghan): Today I put down a Private Notice Question asking what steps the Minister for the Environment was taking to ensure that the services——
The Deputy may not proceed with his question in this manner.
(Cavan-Monaghan): I put down the question asking what steps the Minister for the Environment was taking to ensure that the necessary services and schemes would continue but, to my amazement, I was ruled out of order on the grounds that the Minister had no responsibility. I put it to the Chair and to the House that that is difficult to understand in view of the fact that the Minister is responsible for the local authorities and that this House is now voting and supplying about 66 per cent of the finances for the local authorities. Will the Chair tell me when I shall have an opportunity of raising this very important matter in this House?
The Chair is not in a position to answer that. The Chair considers questions in accordance with the criteria on which they have to be judged.
(Cavan-Monaghan): I do not understand the ruling of the Chair that the Minister has no responsibility for the services provided by local authorities although this House votes the money and the Minister for the Environment administers it. The whole thing is outrageous. Will the Chair tell me when I will have an opportunity of raising this matter?
It is not the duty of the Chair to make arrangements but I shall look into the matter to see if the Deputy's complaint has any justification. I should like to discourage the practice of raising in the House questions that have been turned down. When questions are put to me I consider them as sympathetically as possible.
(Cavan-Monaghan): I have been in this House for a long time and I have never been disorderly or ordered to sit down. I cannot understand the grounds on which my question was disallowed, namely, that the Minister for the Environment has no function to see that local government operates in this country. I do not understand that ruling. I think if the Chair reconsiders my question he will allow my Private Notice Question and will call on the Minister for the Environment to answer it.
The Chair may communicate with the Deputy.
(Cavan-Monaghan): That is quite unsatisfactory. I will simply get a note setting out what has been said already. This is the fourth time in ten days—
Order, please.
(Cavan-Monaghan): This is the fourth time in ten days I have raised this matter in an orderly way and it is only now, driven as I am to exasperation because of frustration at not being allowed to raise this, that I want an explanation as to why I was not allowed to raise the matter, and I want to be told also when I will be allowed to raise it.
Order. If the Deputy keeps on talking we will not make much progress. The question was ruled out on the ground that it is a matter for the local authorities who are dealing with it at the moment.
(Cavan-Monaghan): With respect, that is nonsense.
That was the decision.
(Cavan-Monaghan): It is bad advice.
Is there any precedent for ruling that such matters are not the responsibility of the Minister?
I am sure there are.
Because I was not aware of any, and the use of the words "I am sure" usually mean "I am not sure".
(Cavan-Monaghan): Sir, I will read it out for the House:
The Ceann Comhairle has disallowed your Private Notice Question concerning public services operated by local authorities because of lack of Ministerial responsibility.
If that means the Minister is irresponsible, I quite understand it, but if it means the Minister has no function in ensuring that the services provided by local authorities are kept going it baffles me. It is beyond me. I do not understand it.
If the Deputy supplies me with information to prove that the Minister is directly responsible I will listen to it.
(Cavan-Monaghan): It is elementary.
The Chair does not turn down questions lightly. They are examined from every possible aspect.
These people were in negotiation with the Minister directly, not with the local authority.
(Cavan-Monaghan): When the strike was shelved that was, perhaps, arguable. The matter has been passed over to somebody else. But, irrespective of the strike, surely the provision and maintenance of services is in the overall and in the ultimate the responsibility of the man who——
The Deputy has got good mileage out of it now.
On a point of order, in view of the fact that you disallowed my Private Notice Question related to the unscheduled sinking of the Christos Bitas, I would like to ask you——
We will not have another discussion on the matter now.
I intend asking your permission to raise it on the adjournment.
The question is ruled out. I thought that boat had gone down.
(Cavan-Monaghan): But she is still stinking, sir.
I am not raising any of the several questions of mine that you have refused——
I hope not.
But might I ask the Ceann Comhairle if a Minister to whom a question is addressed indicates to the General Office or to the Chair that the matter raised is not his responsibility, does the Chair have any say?
The Chair has the last and final say as to whether the question is in or out. Naturally he must take into consideration the advice he gets.
In other words, the Chair has no instructions.
If on a question being forwarded to a particular Department the Minister, or the officials on his behalf, return that question with the comment that the matter is not one for their Minister, does that, in fact, prevent the Chair putting that question on the Order Paper on the basis that, if he does put it on, there will be no answer anyway?
Irrespective of what the opinion of the Minister or the Department may be, if the Ceann Comhairle establishes to his satisfaction that the question is relevant he will permit it to be taken.
So in this particular case and in all others it is purely a matter of the Chair's decision.
It is always a matter of the Chair's decision.
That is purely technical. For too long now we have had that sort of thing. I was offering the Chair a handy way out and he did not take it.
Would I be in order in asking the Taoiseach or the Tánaiste if he would be willing to make a statement to clarify to this House the position in regard to the contents of the misleading reply given by the Minister for Tourism and Transport last Thursday on the circumstances leading to the Government decision on the sinking of the Christos Bitas in waters adjacent to our coastline?
The Deputy would need to give notice.
What is the process for ensuring the integrity of answers?
If the Deputy puts down a question in the ordinary way he will get an answer.
But there is no guarantee of the integrity of the reply.
(Cavan-Monaghan): The Chair is aware that the Minister for Tourism and Transport stated that the ship in question would be sunk 500 miles off the Irish coast. It has been sunk only 200 miles——
We are not going to enter into that now.
(Cavan-Monaghan):—— and it is a danger to our coastline.
(Interruptions.)
They will all be well oiled down in Cork this weekend.