asked the Taoiseach if, having regard to the contribution made by indigenous Irish circuses to the cultural and artistic life of the country and the threat posed by foreign competition to these bodies, he will introduce legislation to broaden the scope of the Arts Act, 1951 to include circuses, and thereby afford Irish circuses a measure of financial support by the Arts Council to ensure their survival; and if he is aware of the practice of State subsidies for circuses in other European countries.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Irish Circuses.
2.
Amending legislation is not envisaged in this area. I am aware that there is State assistance for circuses in some European countries.
Does the Taoiseach regard circuses as a form of art—does he agree they should be put into a separate category?
Is the Taoiseach aware that down through the years circuses have been of tremendous interest to local communities, especially young people? Is he aware that we are now faced with the extinction of circuses unless some State action is taken to protect them?
It is not for me to interpret the legislation. In the original Arts Act of 1951, the expression "art" means painting, sculpture, architecture, music, drama, the cinema, literature, design in industry, the fine arts and applied arts generally. Deputy Deasy is as free as I am to interpret that and to say whether a circus would come under that definition. In reply to Deputy Collins, he will remember, as I do, that when he was young he enjoyed circuses, and we need not identify particular Irish circuses. I am sure he knows that even then circuses came from abroad and there were no means—if there were they were not applied—to prevent them from coming in. I can only ask the Deputy that if he applies the criterion of preventing that kind of competition in the circus area, would he apply the same kind of thinking in relation, for example, to drama, operatic singers and so forth?
Surely the Taoiseach will agree that circuses are a vital part of the life of any young child, indeed of any society, and that there is merit in the idea of State support for national circuses which have been operating in Ireland throughout the years.
We have a national circus over there.
That is the major national circus: I am talking about the minor national circuses. At least two companies have been operating here throughout the years. Would the Taoiseach not consider them to be of national importance and worthy of help from the Arts Council?
I would regard these native circuses, if one could so describe them, as being important in the general national life, in relation to young people in particular. Whenever the circus season starts, they employ Irish workmen. However, apart altogether from our membership of the EEC one of the principal problems we would have in relation to circuses is the danger of the spread of animal diseases. The only remedy we would have in that respect would be to exclude animals coming from abroad. Once these animals satisfy the animal disease regulations laid down by the Department of Agriculture there is no reason why they should be excluded. In regard to circuses coming from Northern Ireland, where the same disease regulations apply, there would be no exclusion of them if they comply. I do not know of any other means by which we could exclude circuses coming from abroad. As I have said, throughout the years they have been coming and there were no suggestions they should be excluded. Whether active assistance should be given to them by way of grants from the Arts Council is a matter entirely for the Arts Council.
Though I understand what the Taoiseach has said about difficulty in giving protection, can the Taoiseach say whether the Government received from the Irish Circus Owners Association the same formal representations as every Deputy in the House has seen, and if so whether his reply was that nothing could be done for them?
The Government as such did not receive formal representations but each member of the Government and each member of my party, in our representative capacity as Members of the Dáil, received the same kind of letter as Deputy Kelly received. The matter has been raised also with the Minister for Labour in relation to the employment of workmen in connection with the setting up of circuses—a question on it is down for written answer today. I have given as comprehensive an answer as I can. If assistance is available to them it is only under the Arts Act.
Is it within the compass of the Arts Council to give some aid to circuses?
The Arts Council can interpret section 1 of the 1951 Act which I have read out in general terms—not being permitted to quote it, I did not do so exactly. The Arts Council are entitled to interpret that Act as they wish. If they fail to do that, there is always recourse to the courts where the interpretation can be argued. Deputy Deasy will remember that when he was a Member of the Seanad and supporting the National Coalition Government, he made the same case to my immediate predecessor—to include circuses specifically in the definition of "arts" in the Arts Act. My predecessor refused to do that.
I am well aware of it.
The Taoiseach indicated it might be possible to take helpful action on health grounds. Would this not involve quarantine for a fairly lengthy period? But it might be the answer to the problem confronting circuses.
I have got the impression from the Taoiseach's replies to supplementaries on this matter that he is sympathetic towards finding some means of helping Irish circuses and that he is conscious of the very valuable part that the circus plays in Irish social life. Therefore, would the Taoiseach be prepared to undertake to examine some means by which Irish circuses could be helped to continue to play that valuable part in our social life?
The Deputy will appreciate that we must establish instruments and institutions by which we can give the kind of assistance that is being suggested. We have such an institution in An Chomhairle Ealaion and each year we vote a sum of money for that body. The sum voted is by no means excessive. I admit that readily, being responsible for that Vote but it is a matter for the people to whom we entrust the disposal of these moneys to allocate them as they wish and as they consider right. It is not the practice, and rightly so, that the Taoiseach interferes in any way with the distribution of these moneys. If the Arts Council should decide to select circuses exceptionally——
The Minister for Education is trying to get here on a one-wheel bicycle like a bear on a tightrope. Perhaps that is the reason for the rather generous replies we are receiving from him compared with the usual reply of a few words.
I am trying to treat this matter seriously but where does the circus begin when some Deputies try to put on a clowning act while an effort is being made to answer questions that have been put in good faith. However, if Deputy Kelly wishes to put on a clowning act and to be subsidised by the State, he might apply to the Arts Council.
(Interruptions.)
Order.
Were the Arts Council to interpret circuses as coming within their scope—and the Taoiseach has so readily acknowledged they are operating on inadequate funds—would such a decision be taken into account by the Government in future allocations to the Arts Council?
That is a hypothetical question.
The Taoiseach is correct in stating that my request to have circuses included by the Arts Council for the purpose of grants was turned down by the then Government in 1974 but it is not correct to say that the matter is entirely one for the Arts Council because——
This is argument.
——afterwards a national circus approached the Arts Council but were refused aid. Therefore, it will be necessary to amend existing legislation in order to include circuses for the purpose of grants.
That is not a question.
Obviously, the Deputy was not successful in getting his views across to his Taoiseach at that time.