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Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 15 Dec 1978

Vol. 310 No. 10

European Monetary System: Statement by Taoiseach.

With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I would like to make a statement.

On 7 December 1978 I said in this House that I told the European Council, at its conclusion, that I could not at that stage indicate to them that I would recommend joining the new European Monetary System but that I would consider the matter further in consultation with my Government, particularly to see whether there could be any further basis on which I could contemplate a positive response.

My reservations related, in part, to the uses to which the proposed resource transfers could be put and their inadequacy. I am glad to be able to say now that I have an assurance as to the interpretation of the Council resolution which is satisfactory in so far as uses to which the resources may be put. They will not be wholly restricted to infrastructure. I have also been assured that there will be sufficient flexibility as to the manner in which the interest subsidies operate to enable us to benefit fully from these arrangements early in the new year.

Further, a number of the more prosperous countries, with whom we have since been discussing the problem, are satisfied as to the unique difficulties of Ireland arising particularly from the nature of its currency arrangements, and have agreed to make available, bilaterally, over a period of two years, resources substantially in excess of the amounts provided for in the Council resolution of 5 December 1978. The principle and amount of these transfers has been agreed but details remain to be settled. The agreement will be worked out and managed by the appropriate banks and institutions in all these countries with all necessary backing of our respective Governments. The grant element in these arrangements together with the EEC measures will mean that the total amount available over each of the next two years would amount to about £70 million a year, with an additional £45 million a year for a further three years. A full account of the scheme will be announced as soon as the discussions are complete I would like to take this opportunity to place on record here the appreciation of the Irish Government for the support and understanding shown by these countries in this difficult and complex negotiation.

My second reservation in Brussels related to the attitude of other countries to the new system. That difficulty has now been resolved. The United Kingdom has stated that it will not be participating in the exchange rate mechanism when it begins to function but that it intends to work for a continuation of the exchange rate stability sterling has enjoyed for nearly two years. Italy has signified its intention of joining the new system at the outset. In effect, therefore, there will be seven members in this system and one definitely outside it on 1 January. I would like to avail of this opportunity to congratulate the Italian Government on their decision which demonstrates their commitment to the ideals which underline the formation of the EMS, a decision which has a major role to play in the successful operation of this system.

At this point I am satisfied that the new package provides sufficient additional resource transfers to help us overcome the critical initial two-year period. I would like to add that the whole operation of the EMS arrangements will be the subject of a comprehensive review at the end of the two-year transitional period.

In these circumstances, the Government have decided that Ireland should also participate in this system, with her partners in the Community as from 1 January.

The reasons for the decision are, first, that we believe in the objectives of the system which is the basis of a broadly based strategy aimed at improving the prospects of economic development, based on symmetrical rights and obligations of all participants. We believe in the desirability of creating a zone of monetary stability. This, by enhancing the prospects for trade and investment, will, in the ultimate, improve conditions in Ireland and make it easier to attain the Government's aims of faster economic growth, lower inflation and full employment. Government strategy for the attainment of these objectives under the new monetary regime will be outlined in detail in the White Paper on National Development which will be published shortly, and in the budget which we will be introducing early in the new year.

Next, we have always seen the Community as a grouping of partners in which each country acts according to the procedures and mechanisms laid down in the Rome Treaty. We have pursued policies aimed at the full and enthusiastic participation of Ireland in the development of Europe. In particular we have tried to avoid the creation of a two-tier or two-speed Community. Nonparticipation in the present system, which is a step in the direction of monetary union in Europe, would, we believe, lead to the creation of just such divisions.

The Government pointed out in the recent White Paper that the fact that the UK had decided not to join the EMS for the present meant that a decision by Ireland should take account of the implications for the relationship between the Irish £ and the £ sterling. It is the Government's hope, and indeed expectation, that our membership of the EMS without the UK will not, in practice, involve a divergence from parity with sterling for some time at least.

In its short life as a nation, this country has followed policies involving both opportunity and challenge. In the 1930s protectionism was pursued as a deliberate strategy. This gave way a generation later to the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Area Agreement. A short time afterwards the people of Ireland voted overwhelmingly to join the European Economic Community.

The decision we have taken today is of a similar magnitude. It involves risks. It will add a further dimension to partition, although the ultimate benefits of membership of the system could outweigh the problems. The benefits for agriculture are clear. Fears have, however, been expressed on the part of certain service and manufacturing industries. Let me say here that there is nothing inherent in our decision which need have a destabilising effect on employment in the short run. So far as any significant short term difficulties do arise, the Government will help in a positive and sympathetic way. In the longer term, the benefits of adherence will be great.

The attainment of these benefits will require a matching discipline. The decision we have taken today is an act of trust. It is trust in the European Community but above all it is trust in the intelligence, integrity and commitment of the Irish people and their faith in themselves.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

The statement we have just heard is very disturbing and it will require some time for reflection so that we can consider its full implications or lack of implications.

It is clear from what has been said that our criticisms of the arrangement originally negotiated in respect of the £225 million were valid. The Government felt it necessary to renegotiate this figure because, as we pointed out and what was not made clear in any sense at any stage by the Government, the money was project aid and it was unlikely that we would be able to find uses for the full amount within the terms of reference. That was concealed from this House. It was only when we brought it out into the open that the Government sought to renegotiate the terms.

(Interruptions.)

The attempt to conceal did not succeed and even now the terms are totally unclear. We are told that the moneys concerned will not be wholly restricted to infrastructure. I gather from that that they will be mainly restricted to infrastructure. What else can they be used for? Has the clause "preventing their being used in any way that might improve the competitive position of Irish industry" been removed? There is not a word about that in this statement. That is the crucial point to be raised in regard to this. I take it from the silence in the Taoiseach's statement that it has not been removed. Otherwise, the Taoiseach would have presumably told the House about it in order to try to put a bit more sugar on the very uncoated pill, as it is in its present form.

The Taoiseach's subsequent statement that he has been assured that there will be sufficient flexibility as to the manner in which the interest subsidies operate to enable us to benefit fully from these arrangements early in the new year, is somewhat obscure. But, if it means what it seems to mean, it would suggest that the interest subsidy—a figure of £45 million—is one which we will receive whether or not we borrow £225 million, which simply brings out the point that we made originally: that the borrowing is completely irrelevant, that it is merely a smoke screen for a very small transfer of resources. The Taoiseach has now told us that the terms have been improved from £45 million a year to £70 million for two years, but nothing further for the following three years.

The Taoiseach referred in the course of a recent debate to our negotiations on the regional fund. He was most dismissive about the regional fund and the amount of money which it has brought to this country. I was careful from the moment when we negotiated this and in every debate since then to make clear that I found it quite inadequate, but this sum which we get from the regional fund, which I regard as inadequate and the Taoiseach regards as inadequate, is apparently sufficient, if we get it for two years to top something up, to make it acceptable to the Government. I find it extraordinary that a Government which was so firm in rejecting the terms we had previously should change its position so radically and for so little, for 25 pieces of silver as one might say. This result is a bad one. It is a bad one because the negotiation was bad from the outset and the country is the sufferer.

There is one point the Taoiseach has not referred to and which I feel we should be told about. He has said that for the time being at least the relationship with sterling will not be affected. He has not said whether that does or does not entail any change in the financial arrangements between Ireland and Britain. That is something which we ought to be told and it is surprising that any reference to that was omitted from the Taoiseach's statement.

Our job now is to consider together when and at what time and in what period of time we should debate this proposal. There should be discussions through the usual channels with a view to arranging such a debate on what the Government have apparently accepted. I propose that that be done as soon as this brief exchange concludes.

The Taoiseach has informed the House now that his Government and his party are accepting entry into the EMS under certain conditions. I must say that the Taoiseach has been consistent throughout this whole sad failure of our negotiations with regard to the EMS because, even at this stage in coming before this House and announcing the Government's decision that we are going to enter the EMS, the Taoiseach and this House are as unclear and as uncertain as to what conditions apply to our entry as we were right through the negotiations. There are phrases used in this statement by the Taoiseach that illustrate quite clearly that the House is not being informed, because apparently the Taoiseach is not in a position to inform the House precisely under what terms we are entering the EMS. We have such phrases on the first page in the third paragraph as:

The principle and amount of these transfers have been agreed but details remain to be settled.

What does the Taoiseach mean by the principle? He said:

the agreement will be worked out and managed by appropriate banks.

That clearly implies that we are not concerned, when we are dealing with banks, with grant transfers, that what is on offer is more foreign borrowing by the Government and which they apparently intend to avail of. The decision that was so warmly welcomed by the entire Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party, their enthusiastic clapping at the end of the Taoiseach's speech, is their heralding in of something that could prove to be disastrous for Irish industry and Irish jobs.

(Interruptions.)

It is the opinion of this party that, since the failure of the Taoiseach and his negotiating team on 5 December in Brussels, we have not been engaged in serious negotiations. In fact, the Taoiseach and the Government have been using this country's diplomatic service in an endeavour to get a political face-saver for the Fianna Fáil Party.

They have been going around with the begging bowl on behalf of the Fianna Fáil Party, not on behalf of the Government.

(Interruptions.)

If that is Fianna Fáil's concept of how Ireland should take its place among the nations of the earth, I think they will find that the vast majority of the Irish people will not agree with that concept.

Hear, hear.

This party, very early in the negotiations, laid down six conditions for our support of the Government's position, which they have now taken, with regard to the EMS. I want to emphasise that those conditions were, first of all, based on a figure of £650 million which would be a transfer of resource by way of grant. That was not our figure—it was a figure that was put forward by the present Government —and we had certain other conditions essential for the protection of Irish industry and Irish jobs. Those conditions have quite clearly not been met and what we have now being presented to us is an admission of complete failure by this Government to negotiate terms that could protect Irish jobs and Irish industry.

I do not intend at this stage to elaborate any further but we will be seeking and I am now on behalf of this party seeking a full debate on the Government's decision to enter the EMS. I suggest that the debate can only be adequately dealt with in the coming week.

I have just one observation to make. Both Deputy FitzGerald and Deputy Cluskey have referred to the desirability of a debate from their point of view. As I indicated in my statement, the details of the scheme and the arrangements have yet to be worked out; the discussions are not complete. There are certain arrangements to be made with the banks in the participating countries. I can say that these arrangements will not have been completed certainly by next week nor will they be for some weeks yet.

I suggest therefore that, if there is to be a debate, that we debate it this evening. I am agreeable to extending the sitting of the House, if that is acceptable to the Deputies on the other side of the House, as long as is necessary this evening. I am making that observation at this stage because Deputy FitzGerald obviously suggested that whatever arrangements might be made should be worked out through the Whips. This is my suggestion and I think it is the most appropriate one having regard to all the considerations.

Is the Taoiseach proposing that we enter the EMS on 1 January and work out the details afterwards?

In the original document as regards the transfers arranged under paragraph 3 (2) of part B the European Council requested the Commission to submit proposals for the arrangement for the interest rates and so on that were involved in this document. The Commission will be some time considering even that part of it.

It is a pig in a poke all right.

Is the position then that we cannot, or should not have a full scale debate next week because the Taoiseach or the Government do not know under what conditions they have now announced our entry to the EMS? That is apparently the situation.

We will not know until after we join.

(Interruptions.)

(Cavan-Monaghan): That is what the leader of the Government says.

So far as this party are concerned we do not think that this decision by the Government could be adequately dealt with this evening. We are still in the course of an adjournment debate. It is not possible for the Taoiseach, who has negotiated the terms of our entry, to tell the House at this stage what those terms are because he does not know. Yet we are being asked to enter into a debate this evening on the wisdom or otherwise of entry. What we are asking is that this matter be the subject of a full debate in this House in the coming week. Is the Taoiseach prepared to honour his commitment to the House that we would be given an opportunity to have a full debate on the Government's decision if they decided to enter the EMS? They have now made that decision and we are asking the Taoiseach to honour that commitment.

I have suggested that we carry on this evening——

It is not acceptable to us. Everyone in the House and in the country knows that Fianna Fáil have 84 seats and that they can ram anything they like through the House.

That is the kind of democracy that was practised in the North.

That is a decision which we believe to be very detrimental to Irish industry and Irish jobs——

(Interruptions.)

There are aspects of this decision and matters arising from it which have not been dealt with in the Taoiseach's statement. There may be reasons why he has not referred to them at this point, but I do not think we can enter into a debate until a time has elapsed for these implications to become clear. We would prefer to have the debate next week rather than this evening when we would be operating in ignorance of some of the direct consequences of this on the financial arrangements of the country.

I should like to make one other remark. I do not know about the practicality of a debate next week as far as Deputies generally are concerned, and I will throw out one other suggestion. If a debate this evening is not acceptable to the parties opposite, we could have a fuller debate in January and arrange for a special sitting of the House before the announced date of resumption.

The suggestion by the Taoiseach that we should have a debate in January after we have entered the EMS is totally unacceptable to this party. The question of how appropriate it would be to have a debate next week—undoubtedly it would cause some inconvenience to Members of the House—must be considered in relation to the decision that has been taken which will cost the jobs of thousands of Irish people——

We are not discussing the matter now. We are discussing the possibility of a debate.

If the Taoiseach will accept the principle of a debate next week, the details in regard to the time of that debate could be worked out between the Whips.

The Chair must intervene to point out that the time schedule has been fixed for the Adjournment Motion. That has been interrupted by the course of events. Have I the agreement of the House that we continue with the three speakers from the three parties to conclude the debate, who will have three-quarters of an hour each? The Whips in the normal way can discuss the other matter.

Will the Taoiseach agree in principle to a full debate next week? The details can be worked out between the Whips.

I have already suggested that we have a debate. I suggested this evening. I do not think that a debate next week would be any more fruitful that this evening. Therefore, I am suggesting that it is not unreasonable to assume that a debate in January would be more fruitful. We could come back specially to debate the matter. I do not wish to enter into any acrimonious discussion about when the debate should take place. The intention appears to be to resume the debate on the Adjournment Motion and then to see if an arrangement can be made among the Whips as to when a debate on the EMS decision can take place.

It would be misleading for me to sit here and by my silence imply that we would agree, through the Whips or in any other way, to a debate this evening. It would be inadequate. Our Whip is available for discussion but it will be on the basis that we are asking the Taoiseach to fulfil the promise he made that there would be a full debate.

I have explained why I think a debate this evening would not be satisfactory. There are matters which may or may not arise, which have not yet arisen, and the idea of having a debate in January after we have gone in is such an absurdity that I am surprised the Taoiseach even suggested it. Although it is no pleasure to me to propose to the House that we should meet next week, I am afraid there will have to be a debate on this subject between now and 1 January, and next week seems better than the following week.

I suggest that we let next week be in on the arrangements to be considered by the Whips, among the other two suggestions I have made.

The Whips will now consider the matter. I ask permission of the House to resume the debate on the Adjournment Motion during which each of the three final speakers will have three-quarters of an hour.

What will be the procedure in the event of there not being agreement between the Whips? The Taoiseach's reluctance about next week is beginning to seem, "sinister" is not the word, but there seems to be something curious about it.

In case a sinister aspect is attributed to what I have been saying, there is nothing sinister in it at all. I have been in touch with the Leaders of the Opposition. Indeed I extend my appreciation to them for their courtesy in coming in to listen to the statement. I indicated that because of the Estimates meetings that the Government have been engaged in in the past couple of weeks, we were hoping we would have two full days next week to ensure the Estimates would be completed. The Minister for Finance will be absent in Brussels at a meeting on Monday and we are proposing to meet on Tuesday and Wednesday next to finalise the Estimates. They are the practical problems I see.

Now you have the money to pump into the Estimates.

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