asked the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy if his Department have received any approaches from the Tara and Bula mining companies concerning the future of the Tara operation, with particular reference to the debts of the Tara Company and their current trading position and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Tara and Bula Mines Operations.
12.
The position with regard to the renegotiation of Tara's arrangements for financing their mine development was indicated in a recent statement issued by the company. This is very largely a matter between the company and the financial institutions involved but my consent has been sought in relation to certain aspects of the arrangements. I have decided to defer the giving of my consent pending examination of questions relating to mining operations in the vicinity of the boundary area between the Tara and Bula properties at Navan.
As the Deputy is aware, no doubt, the two companies are concerned with their respective portions of a single orebody. Tara are lessees of the State in respect of their portion while Bula Ltd. own the mineral rights for the part of the orebody within their property. The dividing line between the two portions of the orebody is, essentially, the centre line of the River Blackwater because the orebody extends beneath the river bed.
Tara are engaged at present in mining production but Bula have not yet secured planning permission for their proposed mining operation on the other side of the river. Extraction of ore in the immediate vicinity of the dividing line, with optimum regard for safety and economic factors, would, I am advised, ultimately require a certain degree of co-ordination of the two separate mining plans or other appropriate arrangements. In the meantime, it is important that operations by Tara, currently or in the immediate future, should not prejudice an equitable settlement of mining procedures in the boundary area. In their recent statement, Tara indicated that, for their part, they are satisfied on this score. My Department are engaged in consultations with the parties concerned in this matter but until these consultations have been concluded I will not be in a position to indicate what arrangements are likely to be adopted to deal with the issue.
In view of the Minister's extremely ominous reply relative to the mining operations of Tara could he now confirm that there are grounds for a solid belief that Tara have mined the pillar underground areas in the boundary line of the Blackwater which indeed—quite apart from any dispute with Bula—is quite contrary to the safety recommendations of his own expert, Dr. White, and that this gives grounds for an extremely serious situation relative to the mining operations of Tara? Would the Minister confirm that in view of the very serious statement which he has made to the House now in relation to the operations of Tara?
The position is that Tara have mined to a very limited extent under the Blackwater river. I am advised and believe that there is no danger whatever in that. I understand that is the belief of the mining inspectorate of the Department of Labour. The possibility of any danger arising would occur only if the Tara mining plan and operation under the river were not co-ordinated with the mining plan and operation of a possible future operator who would mine from the other side of the river. Therefore, there is no danger in Tara's present mining operation which I understand has the full approval of the Department of Labour.
I am not concerned with it from that point of view. I am concerned about the situation of equity between the two companies which could arise if there was not co-ordination of their mining plans, if they are going to mine up from each side to a common boundary. My concern, therefore, is a long-term one related to the question of equity between the two operations, assuming that the second one can get going. If I did not look at it in this way there is a possibility that the second of the two companies, in terms of time, might have to sterilise certain parts of the orebody on their side which, in my view, would be inequitable to that company. Therefore, I have asked both of them to try to co-ordinate their plans in this regard so that both of them can extract the maximum amount of ore for the benefit of the nation generally. If an abnormal amount of ore had to be sterilised that would not be in the public interest.
If on the commencement of any mining operations Bula will now be obliged to have a sterilised area that in fact is tantamount to an admission that Tara have in fact already mined what in effect has been classified by the Minister's experts as the safety pillar area. They have thus intruded into the boundary area, are pre-empting the prospect of co-ordination and have acted contrary to the agreement with the Minister and contrary to the recommendations of the Minister's expert, which is separate from the Department of Labour, who are concerned with mining safety regulations. The situation, therefore, has really got out of hand and it is something on which, in the national interest, in view of the money involved and the agreements involved, the Minister should have a public inquiry involving Tara in particular.
The conclusions which the Deputy seeks to draw are not valid and nothing irreparable has been done. The amount of mining near the boundary is very small. Tara have now ceased mining there and have gone elsewhere in their mine to mine until a co-ordinated mining plan can be worked out between the two firms concerned. The Deputy is wrong in saying that there would be a sterilised area on the Bula side of the dividing line. There will, in fact, be a sterilised area on both sides of the dividing line. It is my concern to see that (a) it remains as small as possible and (b) that it remains as equal as possible.
The Minister knows that Tara have already mined their sterilised side.
If I understood the two replies of the Minister correctly he said in the first one that mining in the immediate vicinity of the dividing line, which is the centre line of the Blackwater, could not be done properly until there was a co-ordination between the two companies but in the second answer he said definitely that mining on the Tara side had taken place under the river. Does the Minister literally mean that mining is taking place under the river? If so, it cannot be in the immediate vicinity of the dividing line.
I said that is what it was. It is about 400 to 500 feet down.
Was it in response to representations from the Minister's Department or other official representations, of which he has knowledge, that Tara have now suspended mining under the river?
It was as a result of discussions with my Department.
Was it the Minister's Department which initiated the discussions?
Yes.
Is the Minister in a position to give the House a categorical assurance that Tara have not acted illegally in breach of their lease terms by being in an area prohibited to them under that lease? Can the Minister further assure the House that Tara have not actually mined at the safety pillars which Dr. White placed such store on?
That seems to be repetition.
I have already answered both those questions.
The Minister has not answered them. The Minister has not said that he can give that assurance. I am asking him now if he can give it?
I am not going to try to express any legal opinion or legal judgment on what is essentially a legal question in case it ends up in court. It is not for me to say yes or no in relation to it.
Will the Minister not answer those two questions?
They are legal opinions and I am not prepared to express them.
Is it not fair to suggest to the Minister that Tara have either attempted to trespass or have actually trespassed to a degree outside of their own area and have involved themselves in safety pillars under the Blackwater boundary line? Is that one of the reasons why the Minister refused the refinancing of the Tara proposals?
I was not prepared to agree to the refinancing proposals until a joint operation of the two mining plans was jointly considered and some mining expert, whom I would employ, would have an opportunity of considering those and seeing that they were mutually compatible.
Would the Minister not agree that his predecessor was trying to get both sides together and that it is an indication of his predecessor's efforts to get a co-ordinated plan?
I am afraid my predecessor did not make a very good job of it.
It is in a right shambles now.