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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 1 Mar 1979

Vol. 312 No. 4

Financial Resolutions, 1979. - Financial Resolution No. 8: General (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.
—(Minister for Economic Planning and Development).

I have a few comments to make on this budget, if it can be described as a budget. I have been a Member of this House for many years and have had experience of at least 36 budgets. This budget is the nearest to a conspiracy I have seen in my long membership of this House. It was put together in extremely great haste and in an atmosphere of disappointment because the original calculation included generous contributions from the EMS. Because the EMS backfired, the subcommittees of the Government dealing with the budget had to meet in great haste.

Many people may feel that the responsibility for such a disastrous budget, which has backfired on at least three occasions since it was introduced, is the sole responsibility of the Minister for Finance; but the real facts are that it is the brainchild of the Minister for Economic Planning and Development. He made the recommendations very strongly and forcefully which were accepted by the majority of the Government and included in the speech made by the Minister for Finance. Whether Deputies agree or not, the position was that the wild cat and harebrained schemes of the Minister for Economic Planning and Development were put to the country in the form of a budget. He has not spoken very loudly, if at all, since the budget was introduced.

I want to make special reference to the fact that in this budget there is no ray of hope for the unemployed. There are no prospects or plans for the solving of our unemployment problem. At this moment there are over 103,000 registered unemployed and there are at least 8,000 unregistered unemployed. There is also the constant dribble of emigration which restarted a little over 12 months ago.

During the last general election and as part of their election manifesto, this Government pledged themselves to create a sufficient number of jobs not alone for school leavers but enough to end the unemployment problem. Young people were promised faithfully that £20 million would be set aside for a job creation programme. They now find they have been betrayed very badly. Instead of a £20 million job creation programme, a sum of £5 million is being set aside, and that is neither here nor there in an ambitious job creation programme.

I usually take cuttings from a variety of newspapers. The Irish Independent, 14 January 1979, on page one, had the heading in heavy print “Dig holes if necessary”. The report goes on to say:

The Minister for Economic Planning and Development, Dr. Martin O'Donoghue, said yesterday the Government had to provide jobs directly out of public funds even if it meant digging holes in the roads and filling them up again.

These are the job prospects which that Minister held out for our young people, many of whom have five honours in the leaving certificate, many with group certificates from the vocational schools and many with an extremely high standard of education. These young people are in search of work and the best they can expect, out of public funds, which that Minister failed to provide in this budget, is that he will provide work for them digging holes in the roads and filling them in again. There is nothing in this budget to indicate that even a limited number of people will be employed filling in the holes in the roads which already exist.

The most vital and urgent task facing the Government is job creation. Unless there is a vast surge in economic activity throughout the world there is no way this Government will be able to deliver on their promise not alone to provide jobs but to cut down unemployment to a figure of 100,000 and that does not include the vast number of school leavers who will join the unemployment register at the end of next June. The unemployed of today are unlike the unemployed of 25 or 30 years. Today they are highly trained, well educated and skilled and I can see no prospect for the highly educated young boy or girl who is coming on the employment market.

Everybody knows that the promises of Fianna Fáil were the most blatant piece of electioneering. It must have been obvious to those who were present at the birth of the manifesto that the undertaking could not be put into effect and it was merely a means of hoodwinking the electorate. During the 1977 campaign Fianna Fáil got great pleasure from waving the manifesto and promising to provide work for every unemployed person. The latest unemployment figures show that the Government are not even reaching a reasonable target in dealing with this problem. The promise of jobs is now seen by the public, the unemployed, those who have had to emigrate and our young people as mere voting catching. I prophesy that an undertaking of that kind will not be easily forgotten.

During the budget debate we discuss general taxation and a number of social issues. There is nothing in this budget which gives any practical help to over 100,000 white collar workers. The rise in the cost of living is making it more difficult for people to make ends meet. There is no point in economists simply exchanging views on this matter. I remember many years ago the late Deputy Seán Lemass expressing the hope that God would deliver us from the academics. He hoped this House would never be fully controlled by academics and put special emphasis on the views of ordinary men and women. Academics can deal with figures, schemes and plans for as long as they like, but the fact is that there are almost 6.5 million people unemployed in the EEC.

The first change in the living standards in this country occurred not when we joined the EEC but on the change of currency. Our entry into the EEC, whether good or bad, must be accepted as the clear wish of the vast majority of the people, but it meant that food prices rose steadily and are continuing to rise.

During the next few years they are likely to continue rising substantially. Parents of four school-going children need an income of at least £150 per week. This would allow them only £15 per week for food alone. People no longer can afford butter and meat and nobody can afford meat for the principal meal every day. There are some parts of rural Ireland in which meat is never purchased. The price of these commodities has become prohibitive.

When the Coalition left office the economy was in a good state, employment figures were up, inflation was reduced and the balance of payments was sound. That position has been steadily reversing since 1977. Current spending by the Government represents 37.5 per cent of GNP and they are borrowing £16 per week for every person employed. Anybody who reads the budget speech knows that it is unreal and unsound and must wonder if it shows a high degree of insanity. This irresponsible budget has seriously damaged the chances of a moderate wage agreement. The Taoiseach and others who have spoken here today have asked working people not to make excessive wage demands and not to make things more difficult for the economy. Let us remember this is the Government who would not tax the wealthy and abolished the wealth tax.

An effort was made to rake in money. The Government asked the workers to be moderate in their pay demands and they decided to abolish the farmers' dole. In my constituency, particularly in the mountainous areas, the dole was put to very good use. There may have been abuses of the system but there have been abuses in many areas. In the main, small farmers have been helped and the dole has been used to subsidise their livelihood. I do not understand how in ordinary Christian justice the Government can take that aid away from people living on poor quality holdings and, at the same time, abolish the wealth tax. Many wealthy people are earning £4,000 or £5,000 per week. If a person describes himself as a cultural worker, if he is a dramatist, or a composer of Curley Wee, Gussie Goose, Mickey Mouse and so on, he is entitled to tax-free allowances and all the privileges available. I am not saying that is wrong. More power to anybody who can get away with it. I wish the cultural workers well. I salute anybody who can obtain tax-free allowances on an income of £4,000 or £5,000 per week but is it right? More than 100,000 white collar PAYE workers have automatically deducted from their pay substantial and unfair amounts by way of income tax. Tax is not deducted from the favoured class and, at the same time, the wealth tax has been abolished.

Nothing in this budget gives the slightest relief to the PAYE taxpayer but before the concluding Stages of the Finance Bill perhaps the Government may see fit to review the whole situation in relation to PAYE. There has been a lot of secrecy attached to the budget. It has been changed several times since it was introduced. Grave contempt has been shown to Parliament. This is where I rebel occasionally. When important announcements are to be made, particularly in relation to major issues of policy and the financial structure, this is the place in which such pronouncements should be made. Parliament is being ignored and side-stepped. We are now reaching the stage where the dignity and status of Parliament is being reduced to that of a poor quality county council. I do not know why Ministers do not utilise Parliament to make statements and pronouncements.

Yesterday what took place between the farming organisations and the Government was privately debated behind closed doors with the Fianna Fáil Party. A group of Fianna Fáil Deputies were given the full facts of the deliberations while Parliament was ignored and the information was not put on the record of this House. Political democracy, as we know it, is dying a quick death in this country. We cannot expect people outside this House to have respect for Parliament when those of us who are responsible for the proper functioning of Parliament are refusing to acknowledge its existence. It was wrong and disrespectful to Parliament that any group should be informed about major financial issues before this House was informed.

Everyone knows that the 2 per cent levy on agricultural sales was a new form of tax. It had a separate and completely independent identity from farmers' income tax. I do not know of any farmer in my constituency who objects to the paying of income tax, provided he has the income. The Government drafted the budget in panic and in haste. In order to make up for the millions of pounds that did not come from the EMS they had to fill the gap. They had to choose blindly. They decided to impose on farmers a 2 per cent levy by way of sales tax.

Everyone knows that the imposition of a levy on agricultural produce will drive the economy back towards where it was during the war years. I have never before heard of a Minister for Finance introducing a budget with provision for a 2 per cent levy on the people who produce the livestock and the crops—the people who have worked from sunrise to nightfall, as they have done in recent years. If Fianna Fáil thought they would get away with it they are more daft than I ever thought them in my wildest dreams. I sincerely congratulate the farming organisations on their unity in standing up against this injustice. I am glad that the Government have seen fit to act in a responsible manner so as not to drive Irish agriculture back to where it was in the forties. The coming generations of farmers will be forever grateful to the farm leaders, not for the sake of the 2 per cent but because they stood up on a matter of principle. The imposition of this levy would have been wrong and Fianna Fáil have been taught an expensive lesson in that regard.

Now that we have heard the end of the 2 per cent levy I am enthusiastic to know what the Government have in mind to deal with the present unhealthy state of industrial relations. The telephone services are almost at a standstill. There is a serious postal strike, which the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs does not appear to be taking seriously. We may be faced with an ESB strike or a further transport strike and we will almost certainly be faced with trade union demands. They feel that their turn has come to stand up and demand fair play for their members. Why are there so many unofficial strikes? Unofficial strikes should never be encouraged, but the high incidence of them shows the impatience of the rank and file workers.

The trade union movement is too slow in dealing with the serious problems. Workers, particularly those with families, cannot exist and pay for light, firing, for a house mortgage and so on at present. The trade union movement has a duty towards its members, a duty which the continental trade unions are fulfilling. It is about time the trade union movement told the Government to take a running jump at themselves when they talk about moderate wage demands. I would not ask any worker or trade union to be moderate in pay demands. I cannot see how any responsible trade union acting effectively and efficiently can do so in the light of the Government's abolition of wealth tax and in the light of the Government allowing concessions to well-off people.

In relation to taxation, a minimum guarantee of indexation of income tax allowances, coupled with a commitment to increase the real value of these allowances, is desirable. No such guarantee has been forthcoming. More effective measures should be taken to stamp out tax evasion by professionals and self-employed people who, while the PAYE worker listens patiently and sorrowfully, boast that they do not pay income tax.

I appeal to the Government to reintroduce the wealth tax. There is no reason why wealthy people cannot contribute to development. There is nothing wrong with considerably relieving social welfare recipients and improving their lot generously as a result of the reintroduction of the wealth tax. The wealth tax only effects millionaires and those aspiring to be millionaires. Those people should be taxed, but they are not being taxed. They are being specially favoured by Fianna Fáil.

There should be twice yearly adjustments in social welfare benefits so as to improve basic living standards and to keep them in line with the consumer price index. I cannot understand why in present circumstances Fianna Fáil have abolished a major part of the food subsidies, making it more difficult for the sick, the old and the low wage earner and, indeed, all sections of the consuming public. Without any consideration, with a stroke of the pen, the food subsidies were drastically removed without regard to the effect of severely rising prices on those least able to pay. I am long enough in Parliament to know that this is the third time Fianna Fáil have raided food subsidies. The Government of which I was a member endeavoured by subsidising food to keep prices down. This Government recklessly withdraws the subsidies and makes life more difficult for fathers of families, low wage earners, those without any trade union to protect them, those who have to depend on themselves alone, those in the private sector on fixed pensions with no prospect of any increase. All these have to bear the brunt of the removal of food subsidies. Nobody in Fianna Fáil will seek to help such people.

There are many thousands of pensioners with no prospect of an increased income but they must still bear the brunt of Fianna Fáil's irresponsible actions in regard to the food subsidies. I appeal to the Government to have the twice yearly adjustment so as to safeguard the poorer sections of the community. I also ask for a job creation policy which will make full use of the potential of the public sector. We heard nothing in the budget that was different from what we got in the manifesto and I venture to say the budget is equally as insincere as the nonsense in the manifesto.

What amount of taxpayers' money goes into CIE? A very substantial sum. What steps have the Government taken to examine the possibility of involving private enterprise in providing a more efficient transport service and relieving the taxpayer? What steps are being taken to have the telephone service handed over to private enterprise when the State has failed in regard to it? In regard to CIE, the State has failed to provide an efficient and economic transport service. Why therefore should we be pouring millions into a company that is not giving efficient service at present? In regard to the telephone service let us seek experts from outside the country if there is no private enterprise within the country to undertake it. Here again the State has failed to provide an efficient service. Businessmen are at the end of their patience with the telex service. Let it be handed over to private enterprise if the State has failed. Serious consideration should be given to this in the interests of the public.

I want to give an example of income tax. Any single person earning £52 per week, after deduction of income tax and social welfare, really has only £40 a week to take home. Before he gets his pay packet £12 is deducted. I congratulate the farmer on taking no nonsense from the Government—I am 100 per cent with them—but I hope the trade unions and those responsible for looking after the interests of the working people will not lag behind. If they do, they will never again get the same opportunity. Bury the idea of moderate wage demands—they are out of the question. University fees have been unjustly and severely increased. Some 84,000 people have lost their medical cards under which they enjoyed a free health service. Now they must pay. The cost of living is rising day by day. Housing has been considerably slowed down despite what the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment said today. We who are members of local authorities know there is not the same acceleration in local authority or private building as there was three years ago.

I hope that the Government, in connection with the whole financial structure of the country, are seriously considering in conjunction with the budget that there would appear to be a complete collapse of Irish society coming very soon. Time is short. I can see the day coming when tens of thousands will take to the streets and the roads. God forbid that that should happen because there was a period in our history in which a great strike was declared and at a given time, even in O'Connell Street, Dublin, the trams stopped where they were and the drivers and conductors left them and went home. Throughout the length and breadth of the country, because of a principle of workers' rights, this step had to be taken. Before it reaches that stage again in which there is a complete breakdown and standstill in every activity in the State, I hope the Government will act efficiently and speedily.

Nobody wants to see strikes. Everybody wants to see a happy and contented community. Pay the worker and he will work. Pay him well and he will work twice as well. Do not bend his back with taxation, as is being done at present. Invest money in agriculture and assist the farmers, rather than having them whipped off the land by the inspectors of taxes. On the question of strikes, I deplore the action of the Government in asking the Army to scab on trade unions. Many highly efficient men are serving in the Army, men who obey orders rigidly. Their job is to defend the country, to look after the security of the State, to provide a service in the event of a crisis of national dimensions, but not to scab on trade unions. I hope the Government will take serious note of what I say on this matter. It is wrong to ask the Army to intervene in a trade dispute.

We learned during the week that people will be obliged to pay for the use of roads. Toll roads are wrong in principle. People pay enough in ordinary taxation to have the freedom to move about on any road, or to go over any bridge, without having to swell the coffers of any group who invest money with a view to earning long-term and substantial interest.

I want to make special reference to the Government's failure to reduce by one year the qualifying age of old age pensions. While the National Coalition Government were in office, the qualifying age was reduced each year by one year. I have always maintained that old age pensions should be payable at the age of 60 years at a substantial rate to make room for promotions and to create vacancies. Substantial sums of money should be provided to allow for a proper programme for leisure and to utilise the services of retired persons who are on pension. We should plan for retirement in a much more efficient way than we do. Numerous openings should be readily available to retired persons.

Deputy Ryan referred to the deplorable state of the health services. I want to mention the enormous growth in expenditure in each health board area. The numbers of staff have been increasing steadily, but I wonder has the service to the patient improved.

I want to direct the attention of the Minister for Finance to the long delay in dealing with nurses' problems. The genuine case made on behalf of the nurses in all our hospitals should not be put on the long finger by the Government. It should be dealt with speedily and efficiently.

I am dismayed at the manner in which the budget was presented, its unsound provisions and its many insane provisions. There are important and useful provisions which should have been included in an intelligent budget, a budget with some imagination, some drive and some hope for Ireland in the eighties. This budget holds out no hope and no prospect for that period. I want to express my disappointment and my personal sadness. The budget is an admission of the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party's and the Government's lack of a policy which would steer us steadily into a period of economic development.

There is an absence of common sense and planning. Co-operation should have been sought from all sections of the community. When the Minister for Finance reads the Official Report of this debate, he will see that I consider the budget very feeble. It is a disastrous budget which has been a failure three times since it was introduced. I have been a Member of this House for over 36 years and this is the first time I have seen that happen.

I was elected in June 1977. I find the speech by the previous speaker the most irresponsible I have heard since I came into the House. For a man of his standing, a man who has been a Member of this House for such a long time, Deputy Flanagan's words and advice ill-become him. Deputy Flanagan is a most interesting speaker and likable person. But I would be failing in my duty if I did not refer to some matters he raised in his speech. He has told the Irish people, through this Parliament, that he does not want them to be moderate in any of their demands. He has told them not to listen even to their trade union leaders. I heard him say: look for the highest possible wage demands. Such a speech by a prominent and respected public representative does not do the standards of this House any good.

Since the party of which I am a member were returned to power in July 1977 they have lived up to their promises. Everybody will agree that the promises made in our manifesto have been lived up to. We have implemented every one of them. Also we have lifted the standard of political debate. The way in which the 1973 General Election was conducted, with both parties putting up their ideas on what they would do, led me to feel that in future elections there would be more of putting up the best goodies and seeing who would vote for them. In the 1977 election, when both parties brought out their policies I reached a different conclusion. The document we placed before the electorate was well researched and caught their attention. Our victory at that time gave us to understand that, whereas we may have won on 16 June, the attitude of the electorate was: If you do not deliver, when the next election comes around, the electorate will give you their answer. At that time people said our objectives were impossible to achieve. We set about doing so and that is a tribute to the integrity of the present Government.

The major controversy surrounding the budget—and I do not mean the farming levy which has been a controversial item in itself—is the dispute between two eminent politicians, the Minister for Finance and the Leader of the Opposition, Deputy Dr. FitzGerald, both highly respected politicians and people of standing. If one gets down to the basic facts one finds that a lot of argument must revolve around the question of what will be our growth rate in 1979. For the ordinary man in the street the easiest way to form an analogy would be to suppose that, if one had a business and was trying to predict one's sales for the year, then probably one could estimate one's profit. One would be aware of one's expenses, overheads, but to estimate one's growth in sales or output for the year is something that depends on a lot of variables. This is what the gross national product is all about. On our estimated figures of input and demands for the coming year we estimated our gross national product at approximately 6 per cent. Unfortunately, that does not mean that jobs will grow by an equivalent amount. If anything has been demonstrated in Western European countries in recent years it is that growth rates in gross national product do not bring about a corresponding increase in the number of people at work. This is a matter on which considerable research has been carried out, because the greater the output of a nation the more people there should be at work.

A study I had occasion to read some years ago was of the opinion that since the recession in 1974 part of the reason that growth rates do not bring about any or very small increases in the number of people at work was because employers found that when the recession hit them they had to let go numbers of employees, thereby creating redundancies. When the recession lifted, when demand increased and their businesses began to grow again, they were very slow in taking on extra people until they found that this state of affairs was real and permanent. Secondly, they discovered that, because they had to cut back on the number of their employees, there was growth in productivity. This has meant that, although we were predicting in our manifesto various growth rates over the next four years, the problem we faced was how we would create the necessary jobs.

This country faces unique problems among other European countries. For example, we have the fastest growing young population. Between the years 1961 and 1971 emigration ceased. Prior to that time we were able to keep our unemployment figures at fairly low levels, not because we did anything wonderful in the industrial field or made any great strides forward, but rather the safety valve was that we were able to export the young and best of our population. The position has now been reversed, thanks to the policies adopted in the First Programme for Economic Expansion back in the 1950's and continued in the sixties under successive Fianna Fáil Governments. This means also that we do not have now the safety valve of emigration. In any event now because of the educational processes here our young people do not feel they have to go abroad to make a living. If they want to do so it is by choice and not of necessity. This means also that our young population expect and demand a living in their own country. Since the party I represent have been in power most of the time they have been instrumental in raising the levels of education, through the free education scheme and the economic progress made since the mid-1950's. However, this in turn, has led to certain other problems in that we are now faced with creating an enormous number of jobs each year. Some traditional industries which provided employment over previous decades—because of our joining the Common Market and experiencing the severe blows of free trade—are not in a position to stand up to those winds. Whereas we had in the recent past been creating a large number of new jobs because of the redundancies which have been effected we must create a lot more. Any economic planning we undertake must take account of those basic constraints.

It was a pity that no census was taken in 1976, when it was due. I do not mean to be party political when I say we can blame the previous Government for not having done so. In any event it is a pity that the census was not taken in 1976 because it gives us the basic data concerning population trends and everything else for any planning process. The absence of the census in 1976 was a bad mistake, and I would say that no matter what Government had been in power.

Until we produced the document in 1977, it was felt that a Government would be mad to commit themselves by giving precise figures in relation to taxation, jobs or inflation, because if they did not live up to expectations the Opposition would say they failed because they did not do what they said they would do. This document is the basis of the whole budget strategy. We said we would bring inflation down to single digit figures by 1980. Remarkable as it seems, inflation in 1978 was at exactly the figure we predicted in 1977. The growth rate which we predicted has also materialised. To people who would criticise the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Economic Planning and Development I would say that everything they predicted has come to pass.

Part of our overall economic strategy was to give an impetus to the economy in the first year in order to create more demand and, in turn, more jobs. In order to do that we had to borrow in the 1977 budget. At that time we also said we would raise borrowing to 13 per cent of GNP, but in 1978 we would hope to reduce it to 10 per cent and in 1980 and 1981 down to 8 per cent. There is nothing wrong with borrowing and I never criticised the Coalition Government for borrowing. What I did criticise was the way the money was spent. We said that we would reduce the level of borrowing in 1978. It must be accepted that, if the level of borrowing is to be reduced, then we either have to increase taxes or reduce services or a combination of both. It must also be remembered that, although the percentage of GNP has to be lowered, if GNP is increased then we may not have to reduce borrowing as much. Consequently, an increase in GNP is very important. Our expectation of what the increase will be is vital to the whole economic strategy and also to the percentage of GNP which we borrow.

The 1978 budget, which was our first budget, was a gamble on the private sector producing. In that budget we gave incentives to the private sector by way of taxation relief—for example, the 25 per cent corporation tax relief for manufacturing companies increasing their employment by a certain amount. The emphasis was on the private sector, but in order to get more people at work we increased the number of public sector jobs, although I would be very cautious of having too many public sector jobs. But the private sector have been saying for years that if they had the proper environment they would create more jobs.

Therefore, our main priority in this budget was to give them the opportunity. I accept that when incentives are given a certain amount of time must elapse before the jobs are created, but I am somewhat disappointed that the increase in private sector employment is so small. I never thought the private sector would go overboard and do all the things we hoped they would do regarding the creation of jobs, because the business man is interested primarily in profit and he cannot be expected to have a tremendous social conscience. However, I did expect that the increase would have been greater. I will come later to the reasons why I think the private sector has not increased employment as much as the Government thought they should. This experience should teach us a lesson, when we come to drawing up our future plans, not to rely too heavily upon the private sector.

I believe that this country has tremendous potential through financial incentives to attract foreign industry. Our growth in the fifties, sixties and seventies has been attributed in large measure to foreign industries which were attracted here under various schemes. It was believed at one time that one could not base long-term employment on attracting foreign industries because it was not possible to keep them. But apart from the industries which have dried up and gone out of business—and we have had some very expensive failures—the experiment has been a tremendous success. In any event Irish entrepreneurs have learned from the successes of foreign industries here which have created a good industrial environment.

However, I am of the belief that the long-term employment prospects and long-term strategy should be based on industries which have what I would term a natural affinity to this country. Industries which revolve around agriculture must be the ones we should improve on. In this regard the meat industry has tremendous potential and it has not been tapped at all. Most meat factories just kill and ship cattle. The number of jobs that could be created by those people going into other lines of production would be immense. There are various industries based on agricultural products which could create enormous numbers of new jobs over the years if it was gone about in the right way. Until now the Government itself did not become involved in such ventures and private industry, even though it has been encouraged by grants and so on, has not expanded in the way I would have hoped. Perhaps the day is coming when there could be a joint venture involving the State and some of the people in the food industries to go into further areas such as food processing and so on.

While we welcome firms who come here from other parts of the world because they are attracted by such factors as our export sales tax relief, it is preferable to have Irish industry where possible. In this regard I have come to the conclusion that big is not always best. There was a time when I thought that to have progress we needed the biggest firms who would employ thousands of people but I have changed my mind since then. I read somewhere that if a small employer, an employer with about 500 people on his staff, were to employ an extra two people, the unemployment problem would be solved. Another consideration is that in the smaller industries there are usually fewer problems and there is less likelihood of their going out of business because in many of those firms there is involved not only the livelihood of the owner but also a lifetime's work and pride. Though we have had tremendous success in attracting foreign industry we should endeavour from now on to encourage native-based industry to the greatest extent possible. There is much potential for the creation of new jobs in native-based food processing industries, for instance.

I have said before that unless we are able to create the number and the type of new jobs that our young people will require during the next five years, we will be faced with a very big problem. Young people today want jobs that are satisfying. If we fail in this area we will have hundreds of thousands of educated young people out of work. It is in the interest of all political parties to try to ensure that we will never reach such a situation.

There must be something inherently wrong in an education system which turns out thousands of people each year from our secondary schools seeking what are regarded as academic jobs but being unable to find them, while in other industries there is a great shortage of the type of people required. For instance, though there are more than 100,000 people out of work there is a great shortage of such workers as carpenters, blocklayers and so on in the building industry. In such a situation there is obviously a need for a national manpower policy. I am not referring in any way to the National Manpower Service but we should have an overall plan that would provide for greater assistance to be given to young people embarking on what is to be their final phase of study as to where the job opportunities are likely to be. There is hardly any point in producing thousands of teachers if there are not sufficient blocklayers to build the schools. We have not begun in any real way to tackle these problems. Although the emphasis may differ in so far as each political party is concerned in regard to overall economic planning, I think it can be said that our overall aim is the same. To be successful any national economic plan must include a national manpower policy. That is why I should like to see some agency being set up by the Government to deal with this question.

I have said before also that the creation of jobs in the public sector should be regarded as a once-off measure rather than a permanent feature of our economic structure. The amount of money required to remunerate the people employed in the public sector is immense. I understand it amounts to about half what is collected from the workers by way of tax. I am not in favour of creating an immense bureaucracy because experience generally has been that the greater the bureaucracy, the lesser the efficiency.

The budget provides for the creation of more jobs in the public sector. It is estimated that four jobs are necessary in the private sector to fund one job in the public sector. Therefore, if in our last two budgets we have created X number of jobs in the public sector, the private sector would have needed to provide four times that number. Unless more jobs can be created in the private sector the greater will be the amount of money to be taken from the pockets of those working in the private sector in order to pay for people in guaranteed employment in the public sector. But the more one takes from the worker by way of tax, the less will be his incentive to work harder. In these circumstances I am concerned with the explosion in numbers in the public sector. I consider many Government Departments and semi-State bodies to be grossly overstaffed. While there are some very efficient people in the public sector they are not subject to the same demands as are people in the private sector. It may not be popular to say this but I have found a deterioration in certain Departments in terms of public servants dealing with the public. I have found a growing tendency among civil servants to be non-cooperative and obstructive. I have been to Government offices where not only have I noticed civil servants being abusive to the public but where on occasion the offices were dirty. I have found civil servants in some cases to be the most uncivil people one could find. There is a general falling of standards in the public sector.

Should the Deputy not be specific rather than make such a general charge against public servants?

I recall one occasion on which I had to visit the Department of Education. I do not know who was responsible for cleaning the place but in that regard it was no credit to the Department. If we fail to increase efficiency in the public sector while continuing to increase the numbers we shall merely have a situation of less efficiency and more overstaffing.

The overall strategy in our manifesto of creating a Department of Economic Planning and Development has proved very worth while. It has led to a situation of new life in the area of economic planning. There should be a policy-making unit in every Government Department as suggested in the Devlin Report many years ago.

Debate adjourned.
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