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Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 4 Apr 1979

Vol. 313 No. 7

Health (Family Planning) Bill, 1978: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

In underlying the reaction of the Labour Party to this Bill, I hope to deal directly with the suggestion contained in the Minister's speech that this Bill deals "in a responsible and acceptable way with a problem which has been a matter of political debate for the past six or seven years but which has not so far been resolved." I do not believe that this Bill deals in a responsible and acceptable way with the problem. At the time I did not believe that the Bill introduced by the previous administration dealt with the problem in a responsible and acceptable way. For a variety of reasons virtually all the political parties face two ways—in some cases three ways—on the question of family planning. There is no great internal agreement in the Fianna Fáil Party, there are differences of view in my own party, and substantial differences of view in the Fine Gael Party. That mirrors the disagreement which exists within the country among many shades of opinion on this important issue. For some people it is a very fundamental issue.

For the Minister to come into the House and say that this is "the first real Family Planning Bill" is a travesty of rational assessment of the Bill. For the Minister to say "the Bill now before the House genuinely merits the title of Family Planning" can only bring a hollow laugh, whether one has a medical mind or a mind trained in the social sciences or in legal affairs. By any analysis the Bill does not genuinely merit its title. I became quite irate when the Minister went on to suggest "This Bill is a Family Planning Bill in the full and proper sense of those words". Towards the end of his speech he said that the Bill is "a sincere attempt to meet the situation in a reasonable and acceptable manner". Finally he coined for all time the unique comment that this Bill "seeks to provide an Irish solution to an Irish problem". This stretches too far the extent of my personal credulity.

In some ways I have more regard for the document issued by the Order of the Knights of St. Columbanus, which was circulated to delegates at the Fianna Fáil Ard Fheis and also to Members of this House. In its erroneous nonsense this document is at least more honestly drafted than the Bill. It genuinely states the absolute error of its assessment. It states that where contraception legislation has been introduced premarital and extramarital sexual activity escalates, illegitimacy surprisingly, increases, venereal disease increases, legalised abortion is soon demanded to deal with failures of contraception and then the young are the first to suffer. At least that is a point of view. It is a point of view with which I totally disagree, but it is stated in an unvarnished way. The Minister attempts to suggest that this Bill is genuine, sincere, reasonable, responsible and unique to Irish law. We all know that the Minister does not believe this and neither do his departmental staff, the Irish Medical Association and rational politicians— though it is very hard to find rational politicians on this issue. It is time to examine why we must interminably discuss this matter in this manner.

There are some members of my party and very many people throughout the country who, for spiritual and religious reasons, believe that it is a sin to practice contraception in a particular form known as artificial contraception. They believe it to be a mortal sin in accordance with the teaching of the Catholic Church. If people have a religious faith of such strength, I entirely respect it. I do not believe contraception to be sinful or immoral and there can be differences of view in terms of one's faith. However, we as legislators must clearly draw the line when those who hold that contraception is immoral and sinful insist that their view be enshrined in legislation for all the people of the land, irrespective of their religion. I must add a crucially important point. When such persons say it is not only immoral and sinful but advance in support of their view alleged sociological and medical evidence, one can see sharply that the matter is open to rational dispute. I make that point emphatically.

I do not believe there is any great need to make contraceptives widely available either in slot machines, or barber shops, and so on. That is not necessary. I hold the view strongly that it is entirely reasonable and fair that contraceptives, and particularly non-medical contraceptives, should be available not only to married persons but also to single persons. Single persons, if they so wish, and if it is in accordance with their conscience, have a right to avail of contraception. Non-medical contraceptives, and Condoms in particular, should be available in chemist shops, in health board clinics, and in family planning clinics.

I have an open mind about the age limit. Perhaps it should be 18 years of age and upwards. I would not advocate it myself, nor would I wish to see young people involved in it, but it is legally permissible for persons of 17 years of age and upwards to have sexual relations. It is not a criminal offence. People have sexual relations outside marriage. That is a fact of life. I would not encourage that because I believe that, in their human relationships, people should act in as responsible and caring a way as possible. Sometimes one would almost believe that it is a criminal offence here to have sexual relations outside marriage.

I believe very strongly that this Bill will prove to be unconstitutional. I do not propose to go into the FitzGerald judgement on the McGee case, but one can presume that in future some unmarried men or women in their twenties will bring the Minister to court to test the section on the grounds that it is an infringement of their human rights. That vague, maladroitly-drafted section relating to alleged bona fide practices, whatever that means, before one can get an authorisation from a doctor, whatever “authorisation” means, will be declared unconstitutional, I have no doubt. One does not have to have any extensive training in legal affairs to come to that conclusion.

There has been an enormous amount of propaganda about abortion. I have been subjected to it over the past ten years in this House. I have received the most horrific multi-coloured photographs dealing with abortion. They have also been sent into my home where I have four young children. The sensitivity of the people who send them out does not extend to that. Gruesome photographs relating to abortion are their way of trying to convince me to oppose contraception. By and large they have been counter-productive.

Most Deputies can distinguish sharply between the issues of contraception and abortion. To his credit the Minister makes that distinction clearly. Although abortifacients are not defined clearly in the Bill, I do not propose to get involved with the Minister about that question. I am opposed to abortion. I could not support legislation in Dáil Éireann in favour of abortion but I can distinguish between legislation in that regard and legislation relating to contraception. Most Deputies are mature enough to understand the need to make that distinction between those two separate questions.

I want to commend the articles by Dr. David Nowlan, the medical correspondent of The Irish Times. He published three excellent articles. In one of the articles he included a table related to abortions in Britain giving residents of the Republic of Ireland and residents of Northern Ireland. He said:

The only point to make about the table is that the figures for the Republic are certainly substantially lower than the true state of affairs because it is known and has been shown, that many women from the Republic give English accommodation addresses when they go for abortions; and the Northern Ireland figures are probably subjected to the same bias. But it is trends that we are looking for. Does the ready availability of contraceptives lead to an increase in abortion rates?

He went on to refute the general assertion which is made by the opponents of contraception that, if it is available, inevitably it will lead to a demand for legalised abortion. It is disgraceful that some people have succumbed to that kind of irresponsible allegation in an attempt to decry the benefits which should be available to women in particular. As a predominently male Legislature we tend to underscore the benefits to women of contraception.

One of the aspects of family planning is that, generally speaking, it is advisable for people to have their families at as young an age as possible, if they are blessed with an early marriage, and if they are blessed with children. The older one gets the greater risk in terms of infant mortality or maternal death. Dr. Nowlan quoted a statistic which should go on the record of the House. He said that a study of 350,000 live births in America showed that maternal death rates rose from 5.1 per 10,000 births to mothers under 20 years of age, to 34.3 per 10,000 births when the mothers were over 40 years of age. In other words, he said that having your baby early in life rather than later is safer, and to achieve that will normally involve some kind of contraceptive activity, at least in the later reproductive years. There is no need to take the word of Dr. David Nowlan on it. There is a great deal of evidence from the WHO as well. That kind of evidence is widely available both in this country and abroad and is something with which every family, every family doctor and every gynaecologist will be familiar.

I come to another argument in favour of contraception. He went on to say that a study of infant deaths around the time of birth, carried out in Britain in the 1960s, showed that peri-natal mortality rates rose from 24.2 per 1,000 births on first pregnancy through 30 on the third to over 50 deaths per 1,000 births when the mother was in her fifth pregnancy. He pointed out then that the interval between births was shown to affect the percentage of births that were premature. I agree with his analysis here. It is of extreme importance to point out that the substantial medical, human and marital benefits from contraception arise where children come into life when the parents are relatively young and that the risk inherent in having children as a mother becomes older is substantially diminished. Secondly, contraception enables families to space births.

Thirdly, and of extreme importance, there is nothing more disturbing to any legislator in this House, nothing more awful in my experience and nothing more desperate in terms of trying to come to grips with it, than to notice a family in which a young child is not wanted by the mother, the father or both. Very often one is absolutely powerless to do anything about it, particularly as a politician trying to see how best that family might be encouraged. This can happen anywhere. In the absence of contraceptive advice a child may arrive who, for reasons best known to the individuals concerned, is not particularly wanted. It is very difficult for the vast majority of us to conceive of any situation where any child might not be wanted, but such are the vagaries of human emotion and reaction that this happens. There is substantial evidence to indicate that children who are unwanted very often become battered children. There is nothing more horrendous for most of us, and for all politicians, particularly those who served for any length of time, than to come across the case of a battered child perhaps every two or three years. It happens, and can be attributed to the fact that the family did not in any way practice contraception. The child arrived and there was not much thought about it. People acted in an irresponsible manner. They took chances and then that child had the most awful reception from its parents at the most formative period of its life. That is an argument in favour of contraception.

I do not want to overstate the arguments, but there has been so much propaganda against contraception that the positive, happier, more beneficial aspects of it have to be stressed. I do not get any pleasure or relief in a legislative sense in coming into this House having so to state. It is an appalling reflection on Irish society that one should have to say these things repeatedly to a country which prides itself so much on the Christian family and on the care of children in this International Year of the Child.

Therefore, the practice of contraception, provided—and one must continually enter the caveats—that it is not contrary to the personal moral beliefs of the families and individuals concerned who will under no circumstances practise it, can lead to a happier marital relationship. In the event of individuals who are not married having sexual relationships it can lead to a very substantial chance that children will not be conceived in that relationship. In that context we seem to be acting at least in a somewhat responsible manner, even if one suspends one's moral judgement as to the appropriateness or otherwise of what one is doing. I want to put that on record because I have found that the vast bulk of the material that I have received in the post has been so self-righteous and negative, and so assuming of the moral responsibility on our own behalf, that it seems to be the product of a rather Jansenistic concept of life which is so unhappy, so unloving and so negative, looking around corners to find evil and sin, that at times one begins to question one's own Christian beliefs. Unless one goes constantly to the positive, the good and the benefits, one could finish up being almost impaired by that kind of propaganda.

I come now to the nub of the Bill. Section 4 states that contraceptives shall be sold only by chemists in their shops and only to persons named in a prescription or authorisation given by a registered medical practitioner. I find section 4 reprehensible. I am surprised that a longstanding parliamentarian like the Minister, a man of such legislative experience, such knowledge of the ways of the world, a man who has had such considerable contact with the medical profession and such direct contact with the pharmaceutical chemists of the country since he became Minister should finish up with this repugnant formula to get around the sensitivities of conscience making a bad situation even worse. It is outrageous that one should say to a person seeking a non-medical contraceptive: "You must go to the doctor; you must advise that doctor that you want a non-medical contraceptive"—to use the parliamentary term for a condom. It is outrageous that one must say to one's family doctor—and lots of people, particularly young people do not have an individual doctor—"sorry, I am not married; I am here though for a bona fide purpose; I am not looking for 10 pints of Guinness as a contraceptive; I am looking for a condom; I want a written authorisation,” presumably on a piece of paper which will have family planning stamped on it, because presumably this will be subject to regulation by the Minister. That person will have to sit in the doctor's surgery, when the receptionist will come out and say to that young man, or woman, or married man: “What are you here for?” Of course, Ministers do not frequent surgeries; they are treated at a slightly more exalted level. But that receptionist will ask: “What are you here for; do you want your certificate; are you still on disability benefit?” Whereupon the unfortunate person will have to respond: “No, I want a certificate for a packet of condoms”, perhaps in front of 20 or 30 people. That person will be forced to tell the receptionist: “No, I cannot tell you what I want; I want to see the doctor privately. All I can say it that Morecombe and Wise will have little difficulty in having a free, rich source of Irish Paddy joke material. Probably it will come to that. Not only will it be unconstitutional, it will be hilarious. The unfortunate person, having received this notorious piece of paper—I only wish that poor old Myles na Gopaleen was alive today when he would have us in stitches; he would well outdo Man Bites Dog, Man Bites Doctor or whatever, in terms of analysis—must go to the local chemist who will look at him with jaundiced eyes in between dispensing bars of palm olive soap and, to the likes of me, hair restorer or something like that, and ask him what he wants, when the written authorisation will have to be produced. He will then get his supply—with again the big proviso—provided that chemist has not a conscientious objection, in which case the unfortunate devil at that point, probably in the extremity of the purpose for which he wished the said non-medical contraceptives, will have to travel another half mile or, if he happens to live in a rural town, will have to borrow a car and drive to the next town to get a replacement of supplies.

If it were not so tragic, so ridiculous, so dreadful in terms of legislation the situation could be funny but it is not. It is anything but funny, a situation in which one appoints the medical profession, the registered medical practitioners, the moral arbiters of the supply of a non-medical contraceptive, in which they are officially designated under this Bill. In that situation one must say to the Minister: do you really believe it; do you really think that is a genuine solution to an Irish problem as you stated in your final oration on this Bill? I suggest to him that it most certainly is not.

Of course there is an additional difficulty in this regard—the doctor and the chemist will be paid for all of this. Not only is the moral, family and individual privacy of the individual endangered, in the process, his pocket is fleeced. I presume the Minister will devise a system such as that under which one goes to a doctor and gets a repeat prescription, or the kind of thing that operates when one is on a course of injections. Presumably the Minister will devise some system under which an individual can obtain repeat authorisations without having to pay for them. I have not met very many doctors who will not demand another £2 or £3; one has to pay them. Nor do I know of any chemists around the country who will gaily distribute non-medical contraceptives without adding a prescription charge, whether it be 47p, 50p or whatever. Certainly they will demand payment as well. Therefore the unfortunate individual will have to pay out of his pocket, through invasion of his privacy and of course by exposure to the world of the purpose for which he seeks such contraceptives.

Of course a certain justification has been advanced by the Minister. It is of crucial importance that this House should endeavour to understand the rationale of the Minister as to why he has so designated the general practitioner-individual relationship. Let us listen to the advice of the Minister. He said of the doctor, if I may quote:

He is the person who most appropriately can give such advice and assistance since he is the professional person who knows most

I stress this—

about the physical and the psychological characteristics of the couple seeking his advice and who is also aware in a general—or frequently in a very specific—way of their social and financial circumstances.

As the Minister well knows, if one takes, for example, health board visitation statistics, the number of persons who visit their general practitioner annually is not very great. How many of us go to the doctor on a regular, annual basis or twice a year, three times or five times? How many doctors are aware of the physical and the psychological characteristics of the couple seeking their advice? Probably they are a young couple between the ages of 20 and 35 because the incidence of birth after 35 drops quite sharply. The couple may not be that well known to the doctor. To suggest, as the Minister does, that that is the reason this moral arbitration must devolve on general practitioners, to suggest that that is the profound reason for such distribution of non-medical contraceptives is less than honest and I do not believe that the Minister believes it.

Furthermore one is confronted by a situation in which the rationale advanced by the Minister mentions the word "couple"—the "couple" seeking his advice. We then have this unique piece of vocabulary, "the couple". What is meant by "the couple"? Is it a married couple, an unmarried couple, or a widower and the lady with whom he is consorting? As I understand the legal definition of the term the latter are considered "a couple". There is no reference in any part of the Bill to the word "couple". It merely uses the phrase "a person". Suddenly, and magically, "a person" becomes "a couple". The Minister could not get permission from the Government to introduce a Bill except it was explicit throughout it that married people would get contraceptives, but not single people. He could not put that into the Bill because he knows it would be unconstitutional. It is implicit in the section relating to the issue of contraceptives for bona fide purposes that it will have to be married persons.

The Minister hopes to slide out under a constitutional action on this matter. Section 4 (2) states:

A registered medical practitioner may, for the purposes of this Act, give a prescription or authorisation for a contraceptive to a person if he is satisfied that the person is seeking the contraceptive, bona fide, for family planning purposes...

The subsection then went on to deal with "the couple". The Minister carefully did not include the words "married couple" because he hopes we will be all very good boys and not embarrass him. He holds the view that we have enough egg on our face in relation to our previous efforts and hopes we will allow him get this Bill without any rigorous analysis.

I find that section particularly objectionable. It is medically unnecessary to devolve such a responsibility on GPs. Every doctor knows it is outrageous to suggest that they should have to issue a written authorisation for a non-medical contraceptive. That is the widespread view of the medical profession. Medical surgeries are overcrowded and overworked enough without having hundreds of people coming from family planning clinics seeking contraceptives because they are obliged to do so under the Bill. Whatever the excuses advanced by the Minister, it is even more invidious that those unfortunate people, customs officials, should be placed by the Minister in a similar position. It must bring a wry smile to some customs officers in relation to the Minister. Customs officers will have to decide whether the quantities of contraceptives are sufficient for the traveller's own use. I recall a former Minister deciding to try to put a numerical limit on the quantity that would be permitted for personal use. Needless to say, apart from appearing as a note on the file it did not get very far at Cabinet level; they had enough sense not to be drawn into that argument.

It is outrageous to place that onus on customs officers. It makes a laughing stock of those unfortunate people who have enough to administer in terms of trying to ensure that arms and ammunition and other illegal contrabands are not brought in. Presumably, a principal officer in the Department of Health, or the Department of Finance, will have to give such people guidelines. Will it be a couple of dozen or a couple of gross? What will the limitation be? Will there be an age limitation? If an unmarried young person under 25 is found in possession of contraceptives and declares they are for his own personal use, what will the situation be? If the customs officers find that he has 34 dozen and asks the person concerned how he can claim they are for his personal use, what will the situation be?

Has the Deputy forgotten that he voted for the Coalition Bill?

I have not. We all have areas of shame in our lives.

The Deputy had better keep quiet.

I was acutely embarrassed about the previous Bill, which I had to accept. I was ashamed of it and thought it awful. I was more ashamed of the vote than the Bill, but that is the way it went. There is nothing wrong in doing a little bit of St. Paul's confession to the Houses of the Oireachtas. We all have a few confessions to make now and then and on this issue there is nothing lost by being honest. The Minister cannot hide behind that. Customs officers will have a responsibility under this legislation which they do not want and which should not be given to them. It will prove impractical in terms of implementation. That must be stressed. A statement will have to be made in relation to this and I do not know whether it will be in Arabic, Irish or English. A notice will also have to be printed in the Aer Lingus Cara magazine outlining to travellers the situation in relation to the possession of contraceptives. As one arrives at Dublin Airport one hears announcements by air hostesses to the effect that if one visited a farm while abroad one must report to the Department of Agriculture inspector. I am sure those beautiful stewardesses of Aer Lingus will now have to tell passengers of the existence of a regulation by the Department of Health whereby a person carrying a quantity of contraceptives in excess of the national norm of usage by an individual over a period will have to report to an inspector of the Department. It is not hard to imagine the reaction and incredulity of tourists and the greater hilarity of Irish passengers who are paying enough to travel by Aer Lingus without having to pay for hollow jokes also. This is too ridiculous for enshrinement in legislation.

I should like to refer to the section which specifies that contraceptives may only be imported by licence to be granted by the Minister. The Minister stated that licences will be granted to wholesalers who wish to import contraceptives for sale or a licence may be granted directly to a pharmaceutical chemist. He has excluded the right of family planning clinics to import contraceptives directly. If they were designated as wholesalers and got a licence they could import them and they could distribute them. All the indications are that the Minister intends that family planning clinics shall not have the right to import and distribute contraceptives, particularly non-medical contraceptives.

The first family planning clinic opened in Dublin ten years ago. I have not noticed any massive deterioration in national morality in that period. During that period the Irish Family Planning Association clinics in Synge Street and Mountjoy Square in Dublin have had 50,000 people going to them. That figure does not include those who go to family planning association clinics in Galway, Cork, Limerick, Bray or Navan. It does not include either the many thousands of people who have received family planning advice from their own general practitioners and it does not include the issue of non-medical contraceptives directly in the post by the Irish Family Planning Association.

The largest single responsible contraceptive advice has emanated from the Irish Family Planning Association clinics which the Minister is closing down. Unless they obtain licences to import and distribute contraceptives in those clinics, unless they employ chemists and have open shops in their clinics there is no way they can operate. I have had people coming to me asking if it is true that family planning clinics will be closed down. I have told them: "There is no point in going to a family planning clinic just for medical advice. If you need a medical contraceptive you will receive it but if you need a non-medical contraceptive you will not receive it." There are many trained family planning doctors who have received their family planning qualifications from the Joint Committee of the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists and who are qualified family planning doctors. I predict that the family planning clinics will deliberately decide in the future, if this Bill becomes law, to continue to give that medical advice and to issue medical and non-medical contraceptives. They will also import contraceptives illegally either from Northern Ireland or Great Britain and they will continue with their work. We will then face a situation where we shall have prosecutions if they go ahead and import those contraceptives illegally. There are quite heavy penalties under this Bill. We shall have prolonged litigation, court case after court case and the prospect of people being charged. We will have public agitation on the matter because many thousands of people are affected.

People can still go to family planning clinics for prescriptions and they will then have to go to chemists. The family planning clinics will not tell medical card holders or people in dire need that they cannot give them any medical or non-medical contraceptives. I believe that this Bill will be brought into contempt. I believe that doctors who are currently advising couples and single people, both men and women, will not subject them to the rigours of this legislation because they disagree fundamentally with it. This means that immediately after the enactment of the Bill we will inevitably have constitutional test cases. The Minister has to take that into account.

I know that a number of my colleagues on this side of the House are anxious to contribute. Deputy Oliver Flanagan was ready to come in last week. The two of us are close friends and we may agree on many things but we do not agree on this particular issue. I have been a delegate on the Council of Europe for the past five years and I am on the Social and Health Committee. That committee, together with the World Health Organisation, favour family planning. Deputy Flanagan does not accept that viewpoint. He is also a delegate to the Council of Europe. We can disagree at national level. We have our respective points of view.

I want to deal with the emphasis within the Bill on natural family planning. I have tried through the Council of Europe and the World Health Organisation to get a copy of legislation which specifically deals with natural family planning. So far I have not succeeded. There is a data research facility in the House of Commons and in the United States Senate but they have not been able to find specific legislation which advocates and deals with the question of natural family planning.

The Minister said that this is an Irish solution to an Irish problem. Personally I could never accept the use of the phrase "natural family planning". I have often asked myself why this system is regarded as so wonderful. What makes it so very different from so-called artificial family planning when, as I am reliably informed, there must be a degree of programmed abstinence from sexual relations, where there has to be a daily taking of temperature readings, where one has to keep an acute eye on the calendar, where one has to be welltrained and, of course, one should preferably be a Catholic. All of that is regarded as natural.

I remember a famous case involving a former Minister for Health, Mr. McEntee, with regard to fluoride in the water supply. It was alleged it was unconstitutional. It occurs to me that that was as unnatural in that context as the emphasis now being put on natural family planning. There has been a slight degree of uneasy palavering by the Minister, a kind of legislative crawl. He stated:

When the Bill has been passed, I propose to work closely with NAOMI and with the Catholic Marriage Advisory Council and to obtain their assistance in providing a comprehensive natural family planning service so that in coming to a decision about the manner in which they wish to plan their families, couples have available to them appropriate advice and information on this method of contraception in addition to other methods....

Of course the Minister was on solid, safe, secure and moral ground on that matter. Section 2 (b) of the Bill states that the Minister shall:

provide a comprehensive natural family planning service, that is to say, a comprehensive service for the provision of information, instruction, advice and consultation in relation to methods of family planning that do not involve the use of contraceptives.

Apparently if one reads a book, buys a Chinese thermometer and a Japanese calendar, marks down the rigid periods of alleged safety and non-safety and indulges in a multitude of other medical practices and so on, that is regarded as entirely natural while the use of a non-medical contraceptive is entirely unnatural. I marvel at the ingenuity and the capacity of the international moralist legislators to use language that can be so deceptive and which can be so designed that people accept the use of that kind of language as normal. I say that as a married person and a legislator. I have been married for 19 years and have a family ranging from 18 years to two years.

Of course, there is the other reality, the one that has been dodged about and dealt with so carefully by those who advocate natural planning. I want to be very careful here. I am not for a moment suggesting that those who wish to avail of natural family planning should not have an absolute right to do so. That is their privilege. However, when the Minister enshrines it in legislation one is entitled to question the matter even if one is only doing it in a non-medical way. I have no training in medical affairs. I have only an informed conscience in relation to legislative matters.

Dr. David Nowlan, medical correspondent of The Irish Times, is perhaps the most reliable medical correspondent on a national newspaper. Frequently I am critical of some parliamentary and political correspondents, but I regard Dr. Nowlan as eminently fair, reasonable and rational on this matter and I do not think the Minister would dispute that, no more than the previous Minister. This week Dr. Nowlan reported as follows in The Irish Times:

The Billings, or ovulation, method of family planning has been described as "relatively ineffective in general use for preventing pregnancy" in an interim report from the World Health Organisation on research now being conducted in natural family planning methods. The method has been heavily promoted in this country in recent years.

Dr. Nowlan said later:

This would give a risk of almost 20 pregnancies per 100 women years among users of the Billings or ovulation method of contraception. Interestingly, the Dublin results seem better than those in other centres. A failure rate of 10.4 pregnancies per 100 women years was reported from Dublin,...

As long as there is a rational analysis of the benefits and of the failure and success rates of this method, I have no great objection. It is no business of mine whether it will be availed of by individuals but when it is enshrined in legislation we have an obligation to comment. Dr. Nowlan also stated:

But a method which produces a failure rate (whether because of the method or its users) of the order of 20 per cent cannot be deemed an effective or acceptable means of contraception for most people. This must be a cause of concern particularly in this country, where the Billings method has been promoted with an almost evangelical zeal.

Perhaps when the full and final results of the WHO study become available, its promoters may try to reassess the place of the Billings method in limiting fertility or preventing pregnancy.

I wish the Minister well in the grants he is about to give for research on this method. Needless to remark, the Minister has carefully indicated here that he does not propose to give grants for research on other methods of family planning. He will only provide funds for research on what he calls natural methods. I will not say that the Minister is dishonest, but once again he is acutely embarrassed intellectually by the Bill.

I regret that we in the National Coalition were not any more successful in coming to grips with this extraordinarily difficult problem. I do not think the Minister, though, can shelter behind that because since 1971 the present Taoiseach has been saying he would face up to the realities of Irish life. So did Deputy O'Malley, but it has been left to Deputy Haughey to face up to this difficult task, and I do not think he has succeeded, which is a pity.

When Deputy Corish was Minister for Health he threw out the possibility of setting up an all-party committee. At last week's Fine Gael Ard Fheis Deputy Boland suggested the same thing in an effort to get something better than the Bill we now have. Personally I would favour such an all-party committee. However, the suggestion has been flatly rejected by Fianna Fáil. When Deputy Corish offered the suggestion he was told: "It is your job, get on with it."

I was chairman of a Special Committee of the Dáil on the Misuse of Drugs Bill and I can recall the tremendous contributions of Deputy Haughey. He showed a marvellous degree of liberality. When a question arose in regard to dangerous drugs, drugs of a dubious nature, Deputy Haughey said in effect: "You are pushing too far. You are being too rigorous. There are some drugs that are not entirely dangerous, and the proposed penalties in relation to them are too severe." What do we get now. No sooner does the mercury appear under Deputy Haughey than he says that the most dangerous drug of all is a non-medical contraceptive. This contrasts very sharply with the Minister's excellent performance on the Misuse of Drugs Bill. Many newspaper people said to me at that time that Deputy Haughey's tolerance and understanding were outstanding. I regret that in relation to this Bill he has not been seen to display similar aplomb.

Therefore, we will oppose this Bill. There will be opposition to the Bill for a variety of reasons. My reasons for going into the "no" lobby are, I think, evident. I hope I will have a happy death, that I will not be in a disastrous state of moral turpitude and sin in my final hours. I hope I will receive due forgiveness for my opposition to this Bill. When we see the women of this country so unrepresented in the House particularly from the point of view of the terrible impact this legislation will have on the role of women in society, I have no doubt that in the future the people of the country will look back on this debate and will comment on the immaturity displayed in the Bill and on what the country must have been going through when the Bill was introduced.

I suggest again that the Minister should avail of the offer of an all-party committee. Perhaps we might then get agreement and save ourselves the shame and the embarrassment which all parties, but particularly Fianna Fáil, find themselves in from the point of view of this Bill.

All the emphasis seems to be on women in this House and outside. Men never seem to have to take any responsibility whatever. I am glad to see this Bill being introduced by the Department of Health. It is of as much concern to men as to women. I feel sad to say that all family planning matters are being left to women all the time. It is significant that those who are opposing the Bill are split into two sections: there are those who condemn it because it is too liberal, because it is opening floodgates of contraception; and on the other hand there are those who say that we should go back to the pre-McGee case and discontinue contraception completely.

We must all face up to the fact that family planning is being practised widely here and that there is nothing anybody can do to stop it. Thousands of couples are practising family planning, contraception, or whatever you like to call it, and rightly so. People have a right as well as a responsibility to plan their families. It is hard to find anything as sad or as degrading as to see a woman pregnant every year of her marriage, producing children one after the other, rendering her incapable of coping with the situation, of looking after her children, of teaching her babies what they should be learning. She is incapable of keeping a decent home for her husband and her children. It is sad to see women growing old before their time because of child-bearing. Therefore, I am glad to see this Government making some effort to help such people. It is appalling to listen to middle-aged and old men debating the various aspects of this Bill. I will hand it to Deputy Desmond that he was being reasonable——

I am not middle aged.

I was not referring to the Deputy who I thought was reasonable. Last week I listened to a Deputy from the Fine Gael benches speaking a lot of nonsense about family planning. He wanted us to revert to the pre-McGee situation. That is not on.

I have ascertained that medical card holders will not have to pay their doctors in respect of consultations. At least that is some help but I am concerned that in the case of a woman being given a prescription for contraceptives for a six-month period or, perhaps, for a year, if she is in the lower income group she would not be likely to be in a position to pay for contraceptives in that quantity on one visit to a chemist. The problem would be that should she decide to obtain, say, a month's supply at a time, she would be charged a prescription fee on each visit to the chemist. I urge the Minister to consider this aspect of the Bill and to try to ensure that a woman would only have to pay a oneprescription fee though she might be obtaining supplies during a six-month period on the basis of one prescription.

Young couples nowadays are generally very responsible and the majority of them endeavour to set up a home as soon as possible after marriage. It is responsible of them not to have a family for the first few years of marriage. In these circumstances I would hope that they would be considered as bona fide family planning applicants as it were and that they would not have to wait until after they had a child to be put into that category. In other words, family planning should be considered to begin from the moment the couple marry.

Of course.

It is very important for a couple to set up home early in their married life and it is responsible on their part to decide not to have children until such time as they are in a position to care properly for them.

What is the position regarding common law marriages? Presumably such marriages are to be regarded also as family units entitled to family planning services. The Minister has stated that he will set up family planning clinics under the auspices of the Eastern Health Board. One of the aspects of the Bill that concerns me is the three-fold operation that will be involved in obtaining contraceptives. First, a woman will attend a clinic where she will be advised as to the method of contraception that would suit her best. Apparently she must go then to a medical practitioner for a prescription and, last, she must go to the chemist for supplies. Would it be possible to combine the entire operation in the one premises, for example, in the clinic, because if a woman must spend a good deal of time waiting first at the clinic and then at the doctor's before she can go to the chemist she may decide not to bother. Apparently men will not be involved in the procuring of contraceptives. The whole onus will be placed on the woman in this regard. I suggest that there be medical doctors and dispensing chemists in attendance at the clinics. This would streamline the whole operation. Women generally cannot afford to spend two or three hours waiting in a doctor's surgery especially if they have families.

There has been much talk about the existing family planning clinics. These clinics have provided a reasonable service during the past years when family planning services were not available elsewhere. Therefore, I should hope that the Minister in consultation with these clinics would incorporate them into the scheme he is talking of. They have provided a service that the legislators should have provided for long ago.

Hopefully they will be incorporated into any further measures the Minister may take.

Various people have drawn my attention to the possibility of young unmarried people being facilitated by doctors on requesting prescriptions for contraceptives. Girls nowadays of 15 or 16 often look some years older so that if a girl of that age should go to a doctor and pretend to be older and to be married, the doctor might not know that she was not telling the truth.

There would not be an obligation on him to issue a prescription unless he knew the patient.

Many people visit doctors to whom they are not known. It is not a prerequisite of a visit to a doctor's surgery that one be known to the doctor. A doctor new to a big estate, for instance, could not be expected to know the people there.

The point is that he would not be obliged to issue a prescription without knowing the patient.

Therefore, a legitimate married woman could be refused a prescription for contraceptives if she were not known to the doctor.

That is not so.

It is what the Minister implied.

The Deputy is talking about a single girl asking for a prescription for contraceptives and the doctor being obliged to give her such a prescription.

In other words, the Minister is saying that a doctor must know his patient before he will issue a prescription.

That is so.

A doctor, then, must refuse unless he knows the patient.

That does not follow either. A doctor is not obliged to issue a prescription to anybody. The Bill specifically protects that situation.

That means that a married woman might have to go to a doctor to whom she was known in order to get a prescription.

I have had representations from mothers who are worried about young unmarried girls being given prescriptions for contraceptives. If a young unmarried girls tells a doctor that she is 21 and married she may be given a prescription. How doctors will be able to decide——

The doctor is in a better position to know than any other person in the community to whom we might entrust this duty.

Most women will agree that the natural method of family planning is best if it works. However, it does not always work. It certainly does not work without the co-operation of husbands. Husbands should be educated to accept the natural method of family planning. A wife with an alcoholic or irresponsible husband has no control over the situation. I am certain that the majority of women would welcome the natural method of family planning if they could persuade their husbands to agree to it.

I hope there will be a campaign directed at women giving the location of the proposed family planning clinics and pointing out the help and advice available from them. Within the last 12 months a survey was carried out in the Dublin area. The result of the survey showed that the majority of young people are in favour of family planning. There was an overwhelming response to the survey and a great number of people who were asked to complete the questionnaire stated that they would like a family planning clinic in their area under the auspices of the health board. They also stated that all methods of family planning, including the natural method, should be available.

My experience indicates that medical practitioners do not know very much about family planning. I am pleased to note that there will be special training courses on family planning for medical practitioners. When a woman asks her doctor for the pill or some other contraceptive he will prescribe for her without examining her or asking her any questions. If she returns to her doctor in three months he will ask her whether it agreed with her. If she tells him that the prescription did not agree with her he will simply give her another prescription for something else. I hope that doctors will take the course in order to acquaint themselves with the prescribing of contraceptives.

Couples who are regarded as being husbands and wives in common law should be provided for in the Bill. We have many categories of adults who have a right to form relationships and who are legally entitled to decide not to have children. We have a large group of separated persons who are entitled to have another relationship. Those whose marriages have been annulled by the Church but who are still regarded as being married by the State should also be provided for in the Bill. In the circumstances, can they claim that they are still married and legally entitled to contraceptives? There are many deserted wives who cannot be expected to live alone for the remainder of their lives. They need companionship and are entitled to relationships.

I am glad that the Minister intends to provide money for research into other methods of family planning. In this day and age, when men are able to land on the moon, it should be possible to devise a safe method of contraception. Many natural methods do not work and research should be carried out into these problems. The Government have tried to formulate legislation to suit the majority of people. The Opposition are apparently opting out of this problem and washing their hands of it, as they did when their own Bill was introduced. Apparently they are not responsible now either.

Does the Deputy realise that we have offered to participate in an all-party committee to bring about consensus legislation?

There is some ambivalence on that side.

I am very disappointed in the Fine Gael Party. They could have made a better contribution and, if they wished, put down amendments. This Bill is long overdue.

Would the Deputy have been prepared to support some of the amendments?

I have not seen them, so I could not say. When this Bill becomes law I hope women will realise that it sets out to help and advise them. There are many people trying to make capital out of it on both sides and saying that we are being immoral and permissive. On the other hand, there are people who say we are not going far enough and are not legislating for the average person. We are doing our best for the vast majority of people. There are a few areas in which I should like to see more thought and there are areas where, as a woman, I would like to see more sympathy. I know it is difficult because there are hypocrites who spy on others and look down their noses on those who find a decent and human relationship outside marriage. This sort of hypocrisy must stop. Life is so short and if one finds a person with whom to make a happy union it is not necessary always to enter into the marriage bond and produce children from the union. Surely we are all adult enough to realise that people fall in love and form relationships who do not want to marry and have children.

The vast majority of Irish people want to marry and rear children. Irish women in particular, among all people of the world, love their children and want to have families. The greatest single disaster for many married people is not to have any children. This is very upsetting for many women. They adopt children and try to fulfil themselves in that way. Basically, the Irish woman is not fulfilled unless she has children, but she must be allowed to have them responsibly and to educate and mind them. This Bill will give her the help she needs and she will not feel that it is wrong to visit a family planning clinic. Now she will feel legally entitled to go there and does not have to feel that she is immoral or bad in asking for contraceptives to space and regulate her family.

I would ask all Members of this House to be charitable and not to despise or restrict people who have stable relationships but are not married. There is nothing immoral about it and nothing anybody can do about it. Adults are now entering into relationships and living happily together without being married and they should be given consideration. The moaners and groaners who say it is immoral and wrong and look with disdain on such people are themselves the ones who are wrong.

I thank the Minister for introducing this legislation to help numerous women legally to discuss their family planning problems with medical doctors. I hope that men will stand up and be counted and go with their wives for these discussions and become part of the family planning process. The onus has always been left on women and this is not right or fair. If two people are together planning their family, both should take part in discussions on the methods of family planning. I am sure the Bill will help numerous people and give them the confidence to discuss these problems with doctors. It would be of great help if they could get advice from the doctor and get the prescription in the one clinic.

It is not my intention to make a long speech because my views in relation to legislation of this kind are well known and are on record since the debate on the Bill introduced during the term of office of the previous Government. The views I expressed on that occasion apply to the Bill at present before the House. I have given very serious thought in recent times to whether all the Members of this House as an elected Parliament, as a responsible Assembly and as a Parliament charged with responsibility for making laws for the common good of the majority of the people, have gone completely out of their minds. It may be that I am becoming cynical but I have a strange feeling that that is the case and that we fail to grasp the seriousness of the situation.

Before introducing legislation every Minister has prolonged discussions and exchanges of views with interested parties. I will be anxious to hear from the Minister whether he feels this Bill will improve the quality of life of the majority of our people. I should also like to know whether he has considered every aspect of our quality of life before introducing this Bill. Our people are passing through a period of great change which is of deep concern to every single responsible Member of this House.

We are living in a very sick society which is far from the sort of society we all sincerely desire to see. We in this House, and particularly the Government, are charged with the responsibility to legislate to improve the quality of life in this sick society, or the Government can worsen it if they so desire. We can either worsen it or endeavour to improve it. A Bill of this kind will worsen the sickness of the society in which we live today.

We must all examine this Bill carefully and closely and we must ensure that the legislation we pass is for the common good and is a step towards the improvement of the society in which we live. Today we have the highest record of admissions to mental hospitals in the world relative to our population. We cannot boast about that. We have an all-time record of alcoholics. We have an increasing drug problem. We have an increasing number of deserted wives and deserted husbands and broken homes with consequential hardship and disturbance for children. This is the Year of the Child. Family life in Ireland is being disrupted.

This Bill is an attack on family life as we have known it. Families are breaking up with consequential hardship for children and those who cherish the true Christian family life as our parents, our grandparents and our great grandparents knew it. We are living in times of change. Are we to make bad worse, or are we to make bad a little better? We must examine this Bill against the background of Irish society.

We have lost all respect for human life before birth as well as after birth. We have lost respect for human lives taken by acts of violence. We have lost all respect for the property of others. Our prisons are full to the doors. We must bear in mind that the family is the fundamental unit of society. It is under attack and that attack very often is helped by the media, by publications, and by the voices of so-called liberals who want to have no limit on their freedom, no limit to the pleasures in which they can indulge. They want to have no responsibility and to close their eyes to the real practical purpose of our very existence.

The Minister will agree that we have more teenage drinking than is good for Irish society. There is great disrespect for any form of authority in the school, on the factory floor, or in the ranks of the trade unions. Respect for authority is gone. The foundation for respect for authority must be the family, the home. If the family is not based on true Christian principles—and the family is the fundamental unit of society—you cannot expect to have a society which will reflect goodness, hard work and Christian charity towards all. A good, true and loyal society branches out from the family. The family is based on marriage, a marriage in which, under God, both partners swear to be loyal to each other in sickness and in poverty until death parts them.

People like the Deputy who spoke last feel that we are fighting a lost cause and that there is nothing we can do to improve the quality of life in relation to marriage, the authority of parenthood and the love which is the creation of a family. A Bill of this kind is a most tragic, evilly disposed and unhealthy sign for the future of family life. In our society we have increasing attacks of violence on old people and other individuals, and a growing incidence of rape and highway robbery. Seldom a day passes without an armed robbery, not as in the past in the dead of night but now in broad daylight. I put it to the Minister that society is breaking down fast with all the economic problems and difficulties in labour relations that we have. Our country is on the verge of a standstill due to strikes. A quarter of a million people marched in protest to make their views known. Does he think that in these circumstances dealing with the provision of contraceptives is right and proper?

There is no demand in this country for a Bill of this kind, but there is a demand that we deal with the numerous other political and economic problems to which seemingly this House is turning both the blind eye and the deaf ear. National catastrophes surround us in our daily lives, in our constituencies and outside them. Have we taken leave of our senses when we come in here to occupy the time of Parliament with a Bill to provide contraceptives? Are we on the verge of a complete breakdown in the processes of parliamentary democracy? We take up the time of Parliament in present circumstances with a Bill of this kind when our farmers are on the verge of revolt, labour relations are a complete shambles and every section of the community is expressing dismay and alarm about the quality of life being experienced here at the moment. I say that there is no public demand for legislation of this kind. When I hear agitation for liberties and liberalisation, for pushing the family into the background, for divorce and for the introduction of contraceptives, by a Bill of this kind, I do not care what any Member of this House may say, I have a duty as a legislator to express my opinion.

The provision of contraceptives will be the first step in the smashing up of the family and marriage as we have known them. The Deputy who spoke a few moments ago expressed her opinion that there was nothing wrong in people living together and having a family without being married. If the future generation of Deputies coming into this House are of that opinion, the Lord help Irish society in the future. I am glad that 37 years in office are behind me in that regard when there was some sort of Irish standard. When I hear the views expressed in relation to the quality of life, the family, marriage, the restriction of human life which is the greatest gift God can give, and the manner in which these matters have been dealt with here, I feel that responsible elected legislators must have taken leave of their senses completely, especially when they advocate adults living together without ever entering into marriage legally or into the bond of the sacrament of marriage in accordance with the Catholic faith. I never thought that I would hear that in this House, but I have heard it. That is why I think that the family as we have known it is under very serious attack. Article 41 of our Constitution guarantees to protect the family, its constitution and authority and to guard with special care the institution of marriage, because the family is founded on marriage. If this Bill is passed—and there is little doubt that it will be—it is well that the Minister should know that there will be people who will take it to the Supreme Court because it is an attack on the family, marriage and parenthood. For that reason the Supreme Court will favour the case of those people. Despite the record of our society which I have tried to illustrate with my extremely limited knowledge of the activities of those who believe in liberalisation, in my opinion, and in the opinion of many others, this Bill will not improve the quality of our society.

Proposals are being made to change the law in relation to contraceptives within the State. This raises an important issue for the public generally and for the elected representatives of this House. The question at issue is not whether artificial contraception is morally right or wrong. The clear teaching of the Catholic Church is that it is morally wrong. I am somewhat baffled and bewildered that so many who profess the Catholic faith, a faith I share with them, do not seem to realise or grasp the importance of the fact that in every respect or degree there can be no doublethinking in this regard. This is a Bill which can be described as one of conscience and, when confronted with such a Bill in this House, we must give it calm consideration and serious thought. A legislator must legislate for the good of the majority.

I ask: Is this Bill advocating what is morally wrong and what has been condemned by the Catholic Church because the clear teaching of the Church is that it is morally wrong? Here we have a Bill flouting the truth, what those who designed the Bill must know is wrong, and very wrong. Whether it be public representatives inside this House or the general public outside it, in our calm senses we cannot close our eyes—if the majority in this House are Catholic legislators—to the teachings of the Church of which we profess to be members and of which the majority of people in this State profess to be members. If that Church teaches that contraception is morally wrong, that is the teaching to be accepted by those who profess that faith and who believe in the teachings of that Church.

The Minister knows well that no change in the laws of the State can make the use of contraceptives morally right since what is wrong in itself remains wrong regardless of what the laws of the State, the Government, the Minister or his Department may say. No matter what excuses are advanced, no matter how meritorious a case put forward by Members for the provision of contraceptives or for the right of a medical practitioner to recommend that contraceptives be made available, in every circumstance it cannot change the factual position. That is why I make this plea to the Minister in the final stages of this debate because he must know; he cannot plead ignorance. No member of the Government party can plead ignorance. They must have well—informed consciences on matters of this kind. Vatican II laid down clearly that when a Catholic requires information on matters relating to conscience of this kind ignorance is no excuse, that the conscience must be wellinformed and that Catholics must seek the truth on problems of contraception. Where are they to obtain the truth? Where does one go to seek it? Is it to the Minister? Is it to his Department? Where does one go in this country? One only has to go to the Church with authority, with the wisdom of ages behind it, to the clear, simple expressions of the representative of no less than Christ Himself when he speaks in relation to this matter. If every one of us in this House accepts the fact that, in accordance with Catholic teaching, contraception and contraceptives are morally wrong, what excuse can we make for passing a Bill dealing mainly with a matter which we know and which our consciences tell us is wrong? If it has been conveyed to us that what we are doing is passing a Bill in relation to a problem which is morally wrong—as has been clearly expounded by the highest authority of this world—no Member of this House can advance such excuse. There may be public representatives who are gravely disturbed about this matter. It is wrong in a matter of conscience where a grave moral issue which affects Irish society and will affect that society for generations to come, is concerned.

Debate adjourned.
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