asked the Minister for Justice if it is intended to introduce regulations governing the treatment of children while detained for questioning in Garda stations.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Garda Questioning of Children.
5.
There is already a variety of regulations governing this matter.
The Garda are bound by certain general rules and directions which apply to the treatment of persons in custody irrespective of whether those persons are adults, young persons or children. Included in this general category are the Judges' Rules, which are intended as a guide to police officers conducting investigations and are concerned with the admissibility in evidence against a person of answers given and statements made by him in the course of such an investigation. There are also internal administrative directions to the force about such matters as refreshments, medical attention and other facilities for persons in custody.
In the case of children and young persons there are special additional directions to the force dealing with the manner in which interviewing and questioning should be conducted in the varying circumstances that can occur.
Is it possible for us to have the special directions which are issued to the force for the treatment of children held in custody? Secondly, is it a fact that as most of these children are charged in the District or Metropolitan Courts statements made by them, in the absence of a guardian or solicitor, are accepted as being admissible for evidence by these courts?
In regard to the first part of the Deputy's supplementary which I can answer, I understand that the Garda Commissioner regards the documents concernings rules and directions to gardaí about the treatment of persons in custody as confidential. I am not too sure that I can answer the second part of the Deputy's supplementary.
Is the evidence obtained from children appearing in the District or Metropolitan Courts accepted, in the absence of a guardian or solicitor, by the judge as admissible evidence?
These questions are widening the scope of the original question.
I would imagine that it is a separate question in itself. I cannot say what the courts do in circumstances like that. It is entirely a matter for the courts and not for me.
Arising out of the Minister's reply to the effect that special directions are issued might I ask him if these special directions include the right of a child to have either a guardian or a solicitor present when making any statements to the Garda?
I understand that the rules and directions issued to gardaí by the Garda Commissioner about the treatment of persons in custody are confidential.
Surely it is absolute rubbish that the Minister for Justice should not know whether it is a fact that unfortunate children—terrified by being in a Garda station—can be questioned in the absence of a guardian or solicitor. Does the Minister know this? Is he not in a position to tell us?
This would appear to be a separate matter. If the Deputy wants to table a separate question on the matter I will endeavour to answer it for him.
How on earth can this be a separate matter when it is part of the question that I have asked: what is the position about children from whom evidence is taken and presented to the District Court?
The question asks if it is intended to introduce regulations. The Minister has answered that question.
What are those regulations? They are secret and confidential. Surely the Minister cannot stand over that. Would the Minister say why it is that when, in relation to adults, we know that by the application of the Judges' Rules certain standards are accepted for the admissibility of evidence before all the courts, we cannot have the same position in relation to children? Surely it is even more important for children than for adults?
That is a separate question.
Has the Minister any reply to that? Could the Minister just say why it is that the Judges' Rules are secret and confidential?
It is a separate question. I am calling Question No. 6.
This is quite outrageous. Surely the Minister cannot behave like that, in this International Year of the Child.
One would not know it.