asked the Minister for Tourism and Transport to outline the reasons why the Government have now decided to grant the massive increases in prices to CIE in regard to bus and train fares and freight charges, and in view of the fact that the mainline passenger rail services will be increased from Monday next to outline the plans he has made to alleviate the hardship likely to be caused by those price increases.
Private Notice Question: - CIE Fare Increases.
CIE submitted proposals for increases in rates and fares, ranging on average from 15 per cent to 20 per cent, to meet increases in labour, materials and other costs. The proposals were examined by the National Prices Commission, who found that CIE's allowable costs were greater than the revenue expected from the proposed increases and that the application fulfilled the normal criterion for price increases. Since the submission of the CIE proposals, it has become apparent that CIE's deficit in 1979 will substantially exceed their original projections due primarily to large increases in labour and oil costs and the adverse effects on revenue of industrial disputes earlier this year.
Accordingly, having regard to the observations by the National Prices Commission, the application and in the light of the board's financial situation, the Government decided that the board should be permitted to implement the increases sought subject, however, to no increases being made in the fares of fare-paying school children. Even with the increase in rates and fares the £35 million subvention provision for CIE in 1979 will now be seriously inadequate. CIE have sought a substantial increase in the subvention and I am at present examining the matter. I feel that it would be unreasonable to place the total burden of the increased cost on the taxpayer and that users of public transport should bear at least part of the increased cost.
Will the Minister let us know when he received this report from the Prices Commission? Is it normal to grant the full increase as recommended by the Prices Commission? What type of subsidy or allowance does the Minister intend to make to users of CIE in view of the fact that their price increases are approximately 15 per cent to 20 per cent coupled with an ESB increase of 19½ per cent, all of which are likely to add 1 per cent to the consumer price index? Does the Minister agree with me that this will hit the weaker sections of the community exceptionally hard?
This is a speech.
What steps does the Minister propose to take to try to alleviate this situation?
The Deputy will note that the Government decided not to increase the fares for fare-paying school children. In relation to the other aspect of the matter, I have already pointed out to the Deputy that the deficit in 1979 will substantially exceed the original projections and I have given the reasons for that. I have pointed out that I feel we should not ask the taxpayer to bear the total burden of these increased costs.
(Cavan-Monaghan): When did the Government get this report from the Prices Commission? That question was asked by Deputy Enright.
I have not got that information here.
(Interruptions.)
Have the Government made any assessment of the likely increase in private passenger traffic on the roads, either by car owners or others, which will result from this increase in the price of public transport? Does the Minister have a figure for that?
Deputies will appreciate that when I permit a Private Notice Question in relation to a specific matter it does not permit an open debate and questions asked on every aspect. I ask Deputies to co-operate. They usually do.
I appreciate your problem.
I am moving on to the next business.
The Government have been preaching energy conservation at us and they have sanctioned an increase in public transport costs. Do the Government actually know what the likely increase in private transport will be as a result of this increase in public transport costs?
That is a separate question. Will the Deputy please resume his seat while the Chair is standing?
We have had energy conservation preached at use every day of the week.
Order, please. I would point out that when a Private Notice Question is permitted it does not allow for a free-for-all. We will only have questions that are absolutely relevant. The charge that the Government are being protected by the Chair or anybody else is not acceptable to the Chair.
I did not say that.
The Chair is only concerned with having order.
On a point of order——
It is not my intention to create difficulties in the House but I was frustrated this morning while trying to ring three Government Departments and we are now faced with additional incompetence this afternoon.
On a point of order, in my question I asked for the reasons why——
Order, order.
(Interruptions.)
Is the Minister aware that the Irish Petrol Retailers' Association stated that over the past few weeks there was a 25 per cent reduction in the use of petrol and that CIE confirmed yesterday that there had been a 25 per cent increase in the use of mainline trains and expressway buses? This indicates that there was an increase in the use of CIE. The Minister's move of increasing prices is contrary to——
In present circumstances I do not accept that at all.
A CIE spokesman indicated that situation, according to the national newspapers.
Item No. 10, Deputy Browne.
Is it true that the first CIE heard of these increases was on the news last night?
It is not true.
They were told a number of days ago?
They were told some time before.
The Minister did not even have the guts to tell of the increases.
What is the Deputy talking about?
Order, please.
The Minister knows exactly what I am talking about.
Order, please, I have called the next business.
On a point of order not related to this business, I wish to give notice that it is my intention to ask on the Order of Business tomorrow morning if the Minister for the Environment will give a personal explanation to the House regarding answers today——
That is not a point of order.
I wish to give notice that it is my intention to ask him for a personal explanation about information given in replies to the House which on the basis of evidence subsequently received appears to be grossly misleading.
That is completely out of order. There is no precedent for the Deputy making a long statement on something he wishes to raise tomorrow morning.
I hope that the Minister will be here tomorrow morning to answer certain charges I will be making against him for the misleading information he gave.