asked the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy if a detailed study of the possibilities of solar energy for household heating requirements has been made; if he will give details of the use to date in Ireland of such systems and its possibilities for the future.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Natural Energy Supplies.
18.
The Institute for Industrial Research and Standards have carried out a technical and economic study of the potential use of solar energy for the provision of space heating and hot water for dwellings. The Electricity Supply Board are at present carrying out a study of the practical problems involved and the optimum methods of control in the use of solar energy. Substantial funds have been made available by the European Communities for research into this source of energy.
The extent to which solar energy systems are used in Ireland is relatively limited. I understand that its use for space heating and for the provision of hot water for dwellings is deemed to be feasible. However, much work remains to be done before this source of energy can be exploited to a significant extent on an economical and practical basis.
Could the Minister give any indication of the additional cost of equipping a new house to use energy from solar sources?
I have not got that information but I would hazard a guess that it would cost well over £1,000.
Has the Minister under consideration the matter of a special grant for people who may be prepared to expend that kind of money, bearing in mind President Carter's proposal to make available a tax credit of $2,000 to any householder in the United States who installs this type of equipment?
The next question deals with that.
The Minister referred in the initial part of his reply to the substantial amount of work which needs to be done before a judgment can be made on the use of solar energy. Is he in a position to give an undertaking that the necessary work and research will be completed before he and the Government make a decision on the question of nuclear energy and Carnsore Point?
I do not think there is any real connection between the two.
Does the Minister accept that in the formulation of a plan for the future energy needs of this country it would be most useful to have some understanding of the contribution which could be made by solar energy? This might affect the Government's decision, unless their minds are already made up on this point.
It should be made clear that even if the experimental work going on in regard to solar energy is successful this country is not well located to take advantage of it. The most likely beneficial use in this country is through biomass. Even if these experiments prove very successful during the next ten years, it is very unlikely at the end of that period that a source of energy such as this could contribute more than .5 of 1 per cent or, if we were lucky, 1 per cent of our energy needs.
Is the Minister aware of the percentage it is hoped to achieve in the United States from solar sources?
The United States is a very different country and the Deputy should remember that fact.
Is the Minister aware that the percentage aimed at is 20 per cent?
Yes. Undoubtedly we would aim at a similar percentage if we had a country like the United States.
The Minister must know that there are individuals throughout the State who have on their own initiative set up solar apparatus. I visited one such house in Donegal on Christmas Day when there was snow on the ground and the system was providing boiling water. Would the Minister give sympathetic consideration to the matter of grants to these people?
This is dealt with in the next question.
19.
asked the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy if he will make grant aid available for the installation of wind, water and solar power apparatuses, as a means of providing electricity or supplementing supply from the electricity board grid.
At present grants are not available for the installation of wind, water and solar power apparatus as a means of providing electricity but the use of such sources of energy is at present the subject of research by national and international agencies. Until well established systems for the exploitation of these renewable sources of energy are available, it would not be practicable to introduce a grants scheme.
The Minister must be aware of the initiative of private individuals throughout the State. They are quite numerous. Their own experiments have generated electricity. Will the Minister grant-aid these people?
The Minister has just answered that question.
The number of people who have done this is very small. Naturally I would seek to encourage them as much as possible but it is much more feasible and sensible that the development of this kind of technology should be brought at least to a reasonable level before any question of an across-the-board grant system would be considered. At the moment this type of technology is extremely expensive and not very economic. A good deal of work is being done by both national and international agencies as a matter of urgency in the light of present circumstances into the development and perfection of this technology. It has a long way to go. The National Board for Science and Technology are prepared to grant-aid new projects which demonstrate technology new to this country. They are really only prepared to do that in relation not to individual households obviously but in relation to efforts to develop these technologies in academic or equivalent circumstances where the benefit of the knowledge can be applied to the country as a whole.
If the Minister suggests that the technology is so underdeveloped, how does that relate to the proposal in the United States to provide a 2,000 dollars tax credit to householders who will install such equipment in their houses? Surely at this stage that development could be made available here.
I would ask the Deputy to bear in mind that Ireland and the United States are two very different places and that a state like Arizona, for example, which has sunshine, I suppose, on average 90 per cent of daylight time during winter and summer is in a totally different position for the use of solar panels from a country which has sunshine—I do not know what the proportion here is—for perhaps 10 per cent or 20 per cent of the time.
There are cold and wet parts of the United States.
The generating of electricity is pretty basic. I am not a technician and I am not fully conversant with it. The principles of it are pretty basic. There are many people with bright ideas as to how they can generate electricity with wind, water or solar power. I have seen examples of this. Is the Minister telling me that, until the commission report, simple methods of generating electricity in households would not be a contribution toward saving energy and imported oil? These people should be encouraged. Would the Minister re-examine what he has said, and go back to the idea of wind chargers and solar power?
Question No. 20.
I am asking the Minister——
The Deputy is creating an argument. These questions have all been gone into.
I am trying to create a certain amount of electricity.
The Deputy is not generating a good impression.
In view of the fact that other European countries make grants available—and it is not so long since grants were available——
Question No. 20.
——would the Minister sympathetically consider the whole project?
As I have pointed out to the Deputy already—and I have nothing to add to what I have already said—it would be quite wasteful of public funds to give grants to encourage people to do research—because essentially that is what it is—or to generate electricity at a cost which is often ten times or 20 times what the normal cost is.
To develop it.
Until such time as the cost factors can be brought down and these new technological systems can be made economic and attractive, it would not be in the public interest to give people grants for the installation of things like this at this time. The proper way to go about it is to have the proper institutes here trying to develop aspects of solar power and other forms of power which are particularly suitable for us and which would be economic in ordinary use. As I have said, the NBST who have responsibility for the development of this kind of technology are willing to give grants in suitable cases for such work.