Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 13 Jul 1979

Vol. 315 No. 15

Adjournment of Dáil: Motion.

I move: "That Dáil Éireann at its rising on Wednesday, 18 July, do adjourn for the summer recess".

It is proposed that the Dáil resume after the summer recess on Wednesday, 17 October 1979.

I propose first to say a few words on the economy and our prospects and then deal briefly with recent developments affecting Northern Ireland. Other Ministers and speakers from this side of the House will deal in more detail with some of the matters to which I shall refer.

Normally, it is usual in an opening speech in a debate like this to deal with the economy and in particular with the performance of the economy in the previous year. I think we can say that Ireland did well in 1978. For the second year in succession, our rate of economic growth was amongst the highest in the entire OECD area which covers most regions of the world; total employment increased by 17,000, which was the best performance since the foundation of the State; and inflation fell to 7½ per cent for the year as a whole.

There are other indications of the country's sound economic performance last year. The industrial sector, which is and must be the mainstay of our economic prosperity, recorded an increase in output of the order of 10 per cent. The growth in total exports was well above the growth in world trade and reduced the balance of payments constraints that might have hindered us. Indeed the balance of payments deficit turned out at a quite manageable £150 million or so or about 2 per cent of gross national product. Finally, with regard to the components of growth last year, I am pleased to be able to record the excellent increase of 15 per cent in investment.

Encouraged by the successes of 1978, the Government embarked on 1979 with a strategy aimed for a second year at very high growth, at achieving an increase of 25,000 in the numbers employed and at allowing some increase in living standards for those already in employment, although at a necessarily lower rate of increase than in 1978.

These targets which were set out in the White Paper of last January were built on the assumption of a relatively stable international environment for prices and growth and on moderate increases in income at home helping to keep down costs and maintain competitiveness. The Government made their own contribution in two ways.

The first concerns fiscal or budgetary strategy. They announced a series of measures in relation to company taxation designed to encourage investment still further and so help in the development of our industrial base. The "Industrial Plan 1978/82", published recently by the Industrial Development Authority is based on this strategy. It indicates the objective of creating 75,000 new jobs in industry alone over the next five years at a cost of £1,800 million.

The budget itself increased and redirected resources towards investment——the estimate for the public capital programme was raised by 22 per cent over its 1978 outturn——and towards increasing employment, chiefly in the public sector and in building and construction.

In these programmes we made a positive effort to tackle the complex problem of unemployment especially among the young. I recently gave the House some details of the forecasts for demographic trends in our country. These show that the inflow of young people to the work force will be very much higher than elsewhere in the EEC and could increase at four or five times the Community average. This generation of young people seeking a role and a voice in their own country imposes on us, as a community, an obligation and an opportunity unique in our history. We have set ourselves the task of responding to this challenge. To create employment on the scale needed will call for new jobs at an unprecedented rate. This in turn calls for fresh approaches and a radical break with our past. The early results are encouraging and show what can be done with innovation, commitment and effort. 1978 saw a record rise in employment with an increase about double the previous best. Despite the difficulties this year we expect to repeat and hopefully improve on that performance. We have already launched new schemes such as the work experience programme under which about 2,000 young people have already been placed. Further initiatives such as the National Hire Agency, the development of the environmental improvement programme and the creation of the National Enterprise Agency are expected to make a further contribution to meeting these employment needs. But in the final analysis these initiatives can only succeed if they are under-pinned by sufficient growth in productive, profitable employment whether in industry, agriculture or services and also if they are whole-heartedly supported by trade unions and employers with appropriate policies and behaviour.

In addition to stimulating employment, the budget also set out to continue the important process of restoring order to the public finances by reducing Exchequer borrowing as a percentage of GNP. With the cost of servicing debt now running at about two-thirds of total capital expenditure, this is a vital ingredient in our overall strategy for growth and stability. We cannot accept a situation where the repayment of past debt would exceed expenditure on new investment. This is what would happen if we continued to increase the public sector borrowing requirement.

Budgetary strategy notwithstanding, it would now appear that as a result of oil price increases, the severe winter with its effect on food prices and continuing industrial unrest, the White Paper target of 6½ per cent GNP growth will not be achieved. There can be many views on what the eventual outcome will be. Recently, I quoted in this House the view of the EEC Commission that growth this year would not exceed 3.8 per cent. While it is not possible to be precise given the uncertainties which still surround the economy, it would seem that at best the growth rate for the year would reach 5 per cent.

One damaging influence on the economy has of course been the reduced supply and increased cost of oil. There can be no doubt that the oil price increases we are experiencing this year will have an adverse effect much greater than was thought likely in January. It now seems as though the price rise for this year will be in the region of 40 per cent. This will have the effect of reducing our living standards between 1 per cent and 2 per cent because this is the extra amount which we must pay abroad for our oil. These higher costs for oil will mean that our balance of payment deficit will worsen by more than £100 million. This can only be met satisfactorily by either increasing our exports or cutting down on other imports by this amount. I want to emphasise here again that there is no way that we or any other country can compensate for the increase in price which is, in effect, a real and permanent transfer of resources to the oil producing countries. If we try to do the impossible, by for instance, seeking higher money incomes, we will only create more unemployment and drive our inflation even higher. A much more patriotic and useful response for people would be to "buy Irish" whenever possible. This would both cut our import bills and provide more jobs here at home. We can come through the present difficulties, as we have overcome difficulties in the past, but we will need foresight and discipline.

The second major line of approach to our strategy is concerned with just these issues. Policy for incomes in the next year or two is at least as important as budgetary and fiscal policy. Indeed, both are echoes of the same central theme. This is that all parts of the economy must work in harmony together. This is the first principle on which the draft national understanding worked out with employer organisations and unions is based. The understanding attempts to produce a logical and coherent approach to the problems of creating full employment in our society. It deals with the encouragement of investment, welfare and health services, with taxation and employment creation. And at its core is the approach to incomes over the next year or so. The draft agreement, as it now stands, provides for increases which err, perhaps, on the side of generosity, given the sudden and serious downturn in our prospects and that of our trading partners. But this generosity will not be misplaced if the understanding results in industrial peace and the increases in productivity of which I know this country is capable.

I want to emphasise this aspect of the understanding; it is a risk; there can be no question about that. But it is a risk taken for a worthy motive. If we succeed we will create more employment in our country. We will have taken a step away from the attitude that those with work have no responsibility for their fellow Irish men and women without jobs. It is on this connection between employment, incomes and investment that the draft understanding is based. And it is in the interests of every person living in this country that it should succeed.

The need for care in our approach is emphasised not only by the way in which the oil and world trade prospects are developing but by the likely deficit on our balance of trade this year. In the year to the end of May the deficit was £458 million greater than in the previous year. Some of this is represented by increases in imports of consumer goods. This is a trend which must be modified. But the largest percentage increase is in capital goods ready for use which are up in the first four months of the year by more than 50 per cent on the corresponding period last year. The inference from the figures is of a continuing high level of confidence among investors.

This is particularly welcome. We can reduce inflation and increase employment only if we maintain and if possible increase the high rates of investment of recent years. Investment promises to be the most buoyant element of growth again this year. In the first five months of the year, cement sales were over 13 per cent higher than in the corresponding period of 1978 and that despite very harsh weather. Allied to this fast pace of activity in building and construction is a continuing rapid growth in other types of investment. I have mentioned the IDA plans for the creation of 75,000 new industrial jobs over the next five years. These plans demand for their success an expenditure of some £1,800 million in industrial investment over that period. That in turn requires not only the active support of Government but the maintenance here of a favourable environment for enterprise.

There are many strands to a strategy of this sort. Agriculture as a basic industry must be developed and made even more efficient so that it can compete in the increasingly competitive world about us. Industrial relations must be conducted in a reasonable and moderate way without resort to confrontation; the tax regime must at the minimum not be inimical to investment; we must devise and operate a policy on energy which slows the drain abroad of our resources and varies the sources from which we derive energy—so as to reduce our vulnerability to price increases or shortages of any particular fuel source; and above all inflation must be contained.

I will deal now in more detail with each of these questions.

Agriculture is a vital part of the structure of the Irish economy. Since we joined the European Economic Community there has been a great increase in the value and volume of production, reflecting both the enterprise of Irish farmers and their ability to take advantage of a large and growing market. Over the past two years, this upsurge in production has been particularly remarkable. Total agricultural output rose by 17 per cent and net output by 13½ per cent. This growth has come from right across the main farm enterprises—from a record intake of milk at the creameries, from a large throughput at the meat factories, and from the record cereal harvest.

The combination of higher output, improved prices and modest increases in input prices led to a substantial improvement in prosperity. Farmers and their families enjoyed an increase of almost £100 million in farm incomes last year. Average incomes in agriculture were 8 per cent higher in real terms in 1978 than in 1977.

Last year, our agricultural exports were worth about £1,000 million. In 1972, just before we joined the Community, they were worth £257 million. Without the contribution from our agricultural sector, our external economic situation today would be much less favourable; and it is no harm to stress this point against those in this country who criticise the CAP, which has contributed so much to our prosperity. They fail completely to recognise the very great benefits it brings not only to our GNP but also to our balance of payments and to total employment. The benefits that have been gained by the farming community have spilled over into the entire economy and have brought a new life and vigour particularly to rural Ireland.

These favourable trends continue. In spite of the weather, deliveries to creameries this year were 7 per cent higher in the first five months compared with the same period in 1978. On the processing side, there has been a good improvement in cheese production, which is a most encouraging step towards a more diversified dairy industry. We need to reduce our dependence on the production of butter and skim milk, and I would hope that this year will see a move in that direction.

Disease eradication schemes tie up considerable financial resources and have done so now for a long number of years. At a time when the prosperity of farming has never been greater and the demands on the Exchequer more intense than ever, it is necessary to free as much as possible of those resources for other purposes. This can be achieved only by firm action, over time. In the meantime, it must be seen as eminently reasonable that the farming industry which will be the main beneficiary from the elimination of disease, and the main loser if we fail, should make a realistic contribution to the cost. I am afraid that I am not one who subscribes to the view that healthy cattle are for the benefit of the farmer but that the taxpayer must look to the care of diseased stock.

In general, the prospects for the farming sector remain good. We have realised our initial expectations of the benefits of the CAP, and the industry is on a new plateau of prosperity. The ending of the transitional period bringing our prices into line with those of the Community will mean that in future increases in farm incomes will depend more on increases in efficiency and production. This, in turn, requires a great deal of new investment both in farming equipment and in the education and training of the farming community itself.

Capital investment in agriculture has indeed been high—last year it was double the 1970 level in real terms. Farmer training and advice will be rationalised and improved under the new Comhairle Oiliúna Talmhaíochta. Farmgate prices for the first few months of this year are well up on the same period in 1978. The market prospects are sound and the industry itself is in good economic heart. In a world where basic commodities can often be in unsure supply, it is indeed a comfort that Ireland possesses a prosperous and forward looking agriculture to provide an abundant supply of the most essential commodity of all.

One of the most serious problems facing our country today arises in an area in which we in Ireland have always prided ourselves. I mean in human relationships. Over the last century, we have had our share of industrial strife, of confrontation between employer and employee but in recent decades we have avoided, in the private sector of our economy, that deep-seated and pervasive hostility and distrust that we have seen to be so destructive of prospects for economic advance and higher living standards elsewhere. In relation to levels of pay, the viewpoints of employers and employees inevitably diverge but I would hope that the close-knit nature of our society and the absence of deeply-rooted class differences will continue to ensure that these differences of views are tempered by a general spirit of reason and co-operation for the good of all which has been, I believe, a significant source of strength in our efforts to attract new industry here.

If there is an "Irish disease" in these matters, it seems to be the frequency and duration of disputes in basic public services, most often but not always in the public sector, disputes that directly affect the general public and often bear with particular severity upon the old and the weak, as well as doing considerable damage to our economy and to prospects of increasing or even maintaining employment. With reference to the last part of that sentence, there is one such dispute going on at present; I refer to the petrol distribution dispute. With the Minister for Labour I appeal to those involved to return to normal working and to pursue whatever claims or grievances they have through the usual processes for these purposes. The last nine months has been a particularly bad period in respect of disputes in the public sector. Indeed, it is officially estimated that in the last six months alone, over 1,300,000 man-days were lost as a result of industrial disputes. Of these about 85 per cent were attributable to the dispute affecting the Post Office. But even these statistics, daunting as they are, cannot convey the full extent of the losses suffered, in lost orders and goodwill, in reduced confidence in our country as a place to invest or in which to holiday, in increased costs of running businesses and even in threats to public health and in the defacement of the city here in Dublin.

When we look at the causes of the disputes that occur, whether in the public or the private sector, there appears to be a wide variation in the degree of justification for starting them or for continuing them. In some cases, a strong case is made for higher pay, perhaps by reference to improvements in pay of other relevant groups of employees and the claim is conscientiously negotiated through all the agreed procedures before there is resort to strike action, following a failure to agree. In other cases, something similar happens but workers may lose patience before agreed procedures are fully used or exhausted: this can give rise to particular difficulty in obtaining settlements. In yet other cases, we appear to have a situation where groups use their key positions to make a naked grab for substantial increases, with little support or justification and regardless of the wider consequences of their actions.

The organisation of industrial relations in Ireland and the legislative framework in which they are conducted are based on the principle that in a free and democratic society, workers are entitled to withdraw their labour and to demonstrate peacefully. Further, the negotiation of pay and conditions of employment and the resolution of opposed viewpoints in industry have generally been conducted through the system of free collective bargaining. This system has considerable strengths in efficiency and flexibility. Traditionally, the role of the Government was to underpin the smooth operation of the system through the provision of such back-up services, as the Labour Court and its conciliation service. In its own employment, it sought to provide a model of good procedures in the various schemes of conciliation and arbitration.

Changes in society inevitably led to evolution in the role of the Government in this area. With changes in living patterns and a multiplication of dependencies, strikes and pickets are often now directed, in effect, and sometimes inescapably so, not against an employer but against the public and against workers themselves—who have to pay anyway for the eventual settlement of the claim, in higher prices, higher taxes and, less directly but just as surely, higher unemployment. An important development over time has been the progressive increase in the proportion of the workforce whose pay must be paid by the Government, that is to say by the taxpayer. In these circumstances, the Government is itself the dominant employer in the country with a massive pay bill. Even beyond this, successive governments over the last 20 years have assumed clear responsibility for economic growth and for progress towards full employment, involving vast expenditure, current and capital, for development purposes and for service of debt incurred to finance this expenditure. Over this period, our economy has become fully exposed to free trade and international competition and more recently we have opted for an independent exchange rate regime within the EMS.

Against this background, the Government have had no option but to exercise a more active role in respect of the framework for industrial relations. Successive governments have encouraged the evolution of national pay agreements, culminating in the more ambitious draft national understanding. The trade union movement and employers' organisations have played a full part in this endeavour. A major aim in all this has been to establish a basis for a fair balance between the general interest in maintenance of vital services, in economic progress and in growth in employment, on the one hand, and the ability of workers of a particular category or in a particular employment to negotiate satisfactory pay and employment conditions. Some hold that the national agreements unduly restricted this latter ability and that this was at the root of many disputes. Many people would say, against that, that the claims submitted and pursued in some cases through disruptive strike action, show that the legal framework is unduly titled in favour of particular groups of strikers to the disadvantage of the public at large and of the economy.

The Government acknowledge that the industrial relations climate must be improved. It was for this purpose, in order to help us to find the right balance in our circumstances of to-day that we established last year a Commission on Industrial Relations to carry out a comprehensive and in-depth review of existing legislation and of the relevant institutions and structures. The review must cover all parts of the question and any changes recommended must be based on a balanced view both of rights and obligations of all parties. For this reason, it would be a matter of particular regret if trade union representatives were to withdraw from the Commission where they can put forward their views for whatever amendments of the law they judge to be needed. I would appeal to the Congress of Trade Unions not to withdraw from this Commission, because I know they themselves believe that a well-balanced system will be in their interests as a congress as well as in the interests of those they represent.

In any discussion of industrial relations, the question of equity in the taxation system will arise. This is why the Government included taxation policy among the subjects for discussion in the draft national understanding and will pay particular attention in the framing of their budgets to the work of the Committee on Taxation to be set up under it.

It is no harm on this question to step back a little and look at the way the problem may be developing. In 1960, local and central taxes and contributions to the social welfare system, which are a form of tax, were equivalent to about 20 per cent of GNP. Last year, the corresponding figure was of the order of 34 per cent. This large increase in the proportion of the earnings of the people, taken by the State in direct and indirect taxation, is an indication, if that were needed, of the vital importance of equity in the system. Deficiencies which have gone unnoticed where the total burden was small are magnified beyond all comparison by the way in which that burden has grown.

The Government are firmly committed to the concept of equity in the tax system. Already we have taken steps towards improving the lot of the income taxpayer. In the two budgets so far introduced by this administration income tax allowances have been increased by 68 per cent for single persons and 103 per cent for married persons, increases which go far beyond the increase in prices over the period. Despite these improvements, a sense of grievance exists in particular, on the part of the PAYE sector, based on the belief that not all recipients of income are paying their fair share of tax. There is merit in this view and the Government will continue to remove its basis.

Unfortunately, this is not something which can be done instantaneously. The tax system is complicated: it is one of the pillars on which the economy rests. It is an instrument for controlling demand and the balance of payments. It affects our rate of inflation and the value of our currency itself. There are legislative and constitutional issues bound up with it as well as purely economic questions. Priorities have to be established. There is no doubt that our over-riding priority is the implementation of our programmes of economic and social advancement. These difficulties and priorities make it a practical impossibility to effect an immediate transformation of the tax system. Job creation and financial stability are the foundations of the economy and they depend on a sound and logical approach to the burden and distribution of taxation.

The Government will bring about the maximum degree of equity in the tax system as quickly and fairly as they can. As regards other income tax payers new arrangements for farmers will commence next year as well as positive steps to combat tax evasion. The revised system of taxation announced for farmers is designed to ensure that the contribution from the farming sector will be in line with that from other sectors. As regards other self-employed people the budget estimate of the Minister for Finance for income tax revenue from this sector envisages an increase of 44 per cent from them in the present year.

Taxation is an area where above all others justice must be seen to be done. With this in mind the Minister for Finance has stated clearly that in future more emphasis will be placed on legal proceedings, rather than compromise action, with a view to making public information available about tax evaders through their prosecution in open court. With the help of 500 extra staff which have been authorised for the office of the Revenue Commissioners accounts will be examined minutely where suspicions of evasion exist.

Already much progress has been made. The changes of the past two years have meant that the burden of income tax on married taxpayers has been eased by comparison with single taxpayers and also it is those with smaller incomes who have benefited most. These changes which are surely desirable on grounds of social justice emerge clearly when our income tax structure is compared with that of Northern Ireland and Britain. Whereas the lowest rates and highest rates at 25 per cent and 60 per cent respectively are the same in both areas the tax burden is lower on those with smaller incomes in the South but greater on those with larger incomes. Thus for a single person income tax in the South is lower up to earnings of £80 weekly but beyond this point it gradually becomes higher. In the case of a married man tax is lower on earnings of up to £150 weekly. The differences in this case are greatest for those with average earnings of £70 to £80 weekly where the tax burden is about £4 less per week than in the North and Britain.

These examples serve to show that on any reasonable basis of comparison the burden of PAYE tax payers is distributed fairly and in a manner which takes special account of the needs of families.

On energy in 1978 we spent more than £300 million or over 5 per cent of our total resources in buying oil from abroad, compared with some 2.8 per cent, that is almost half, in 1972. What we pay this year and next will be substantially higher. There is no point in deluding ourselves about the fact that energy payments will be an increasingly serious drain on our resources. Neither should we delude ourselves as to the seriousness of the problem. All increases in employment depend on economic growth and economic growth for us is impossible without a more than corresponding increase in the consumption of energy. The mathematics are simple and inescapable. Every 1 per cent by which the economy grows calls for an increase of more than 1 per cent in energy consumption. We must buy from other countries more than 80 per cent of the energy we require—thus leaving ourselves highly vulnerable to externally generated shortages or price rises. Those who oppose diversification of energy sources or who advocate that we wait for full development of renewable sources would do well to consider these facts and say also how with that policy we can sustain, let alone, increase employment or prosperity in this country over the next 15 to 20 years. The simple truth is that unless we get our energy policy right, there will be no economic growth, no employment creation and no increases in living standards for the foreseeable future and the real problems will not be those of growth but of survival.

Although our consumption of energy per head of population is the lowest of the Nine countries in the Community we have made every effort to reduce demand for oil by 5 per cent in compliance with the policies of both the EEC and the International Energy Agency.

The Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy has already taken steps to control the distribution of gas diesel oil. The net effect of this measure has been that for some months now supplies of oil for domestic heating have not been generally available. Further measures to reduce consumption of oil include an authorisation to the ESB to proceed with the construction of a major coal burning station, at Moneypoint in County Clare, the provision of grants to industry for the employment of consultants and for re-equipment work to secure more efficient use of energy, the prescription of improved building insulation standards, the imposition of a maximum speed limit of 55 m.p.h., limiting heating in public buildings and Government Departments to 18ºC, and an advertising campaign designed to encourage significant savings in the use of petrol.

A year or so ago, forecasts by the International Energy Agency and other organisations had envisaged that the demand for oil would exceed supply towards the end of the next decade but there was always the hope that new discoveries of oil, nuclear energy, intensified conservation efforts and the development of alternative sources of energy would help to bridge the gap.

This respite no longer exists. We have now been denied that ten years. In common with the countries of Europe and the rest of the world, we must base our policy on short-term measures and on a fundamental reappraisal of the longer term prospects. Because of the extraordinarily large demands, even the discovery of more oil on the scale of the North Sea finds, where more than £20 billion has been invested, will not change the picture. Neither on all present estimates, will we get more than marginal help from development of solar, wind, tidal or geothermal sources, which are unlikely to be providing substantial amounts of energy at competitive costs for another 10 or 20 years. There may indeed be some prospect in the development of an interconnector for electricity with the UK or continental systems and this is being pursued. There is no doubt in my mind that one of the main planks of future policy must continue to be conservation. Here, many of the remedies are obvious but an essential pre-requisite will be a sound pricing policy. Already this year we have had to bear the impact of the increase in oil prices which will add about 2 per cent to our inflation rate. Anyone who criticises the Government for this should look at the communique issued by the Council of OECD Ministers after their recent meeting which states that:

Higher oil prices should be passed on in an appropriate manner to energy users in order to encourage conservation and the development of alternative energy sources.

This is a fact of life now and seeking scapegoats among the oil companies or the organisation of the market or the way oil is distributed will help no one.

The second main plank of policy must lie in the use and development of energy sources which are not based on oil. Here Ireland is participating in full in research into renewable sources but, as I have said, there is as yet no prospect of commercially viable supplies from any of the more commonly mentioned sources. The plain fact is that the two alternatives on which we must pin our hopes for the immediate future are coal and nuclear power.

I come now to Northern Ireland. Since I spoke last on Northern Ireland in this House there has been a change of Government in the United Kingdom. I have met Mrs. Thatcher, the British Prime Minister, briefly, in London and the Minister for Foreign Affairs had discussions with Mr. Atkins, Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, in Dublin last month. We have also had a meeting with Lord Carrington, the new British Foreign Secretary.

One purpose of these meetings was to enable each of us to apprise the other of our view of the situation in Northern Ireland and of the way in which a solution could be found.

Let me emphasise first what should by now be obvious to all. A solution will not be easy and cannot come quickly. Attitudes are too irreconciliable. In this decade there are now 2,000 avoidable deaths and 20,000 avoidable injuries, with untold damage to property and to the way of life of a generation, standing in the way of negotiation and change and a just and lasting peace. These personal and national tragedies make a settlement both more difficult and more essential. While violence persists there can be nothing but unemployment and deprivation. And this affects the quality of life in the entire island and the type of society we can create. The current instability wastes resources on a colossal scale. The British Government are already spending £1 billion a year to support the Northern community. And the cost to us here of the additional security and other measures necessary as a result of what is happening in Northern Ireland is even higher proportionate to our resources.

Against this background there can be no failure to seek a solution. Equally, an attempted solution based on certain assumptions would be totally wrong.

Security is an essential element in the present stalemate situation but a solution cannot be found through security measures alone. The problem has existed for two generations now and has broken out in more or less sustained violence in almost every decade since Northern Ireland was established as a separate entity. This has been because there exists in the area two traditions for the reconciliation of which all political institutions so far developed there have failed to provide. Policies based on security alone will never eradicate the historic fear of each other of these two traditions: and political institutions based on the support of one of the traditions will inevitably exacerbate the sense of insecurity of the other.

Neither will an approach succeed which is based on an increasing degree of integration of the Northern administration with that of Britain. The effects of following that road even a small bit of the way for reasons of expediency or temporary advantage in British politics are only too obvious. But long-term effects would be even worse, for integration would weigh the scales even more oppressively against the Northern minority and would offend against the deepest feelings of the vast majority of Irish men and women in this island and in the world today.

The first priority must be to establish an administration in which both parts of the Northern community can live and work together. Prime responsibility for devising the form and substance of such an administration rests with the British Government whose policies have led to the present impasse and who are the authority directly responsible for the administration of the area. But a solution cannot be devised without the co-operation of the two Governments and the consent of both parts of the community in Northern Ireland. We for our part would welcome an opportunity to work with a new regional administration, in the North, based on the principles to which I have referred.

In considering the powers that might be devolved to democratically elected representatives in Northern Ireland the record cannot be overlooked. There is well documented evidence that the widespread practice of maladministration in loyalist dominated councils was a contributory factor in the violence of this decade. We cannot afford to neglect this lesson. Even with the restricted functions now operated by local authorities in Northern Ireland there is evidence that the attitudes and practices of the former authorities have been continued.

The future Ireland to which we aspire must be one in which all citizens will find a place in equal enjoyment of human rights and freedom, without distinction of culture, tradition or religion.

That future must take account of the aspirations of the majority of the people of this island to reconciliation and unity by peaceful means and consent. The old historic and economic arguments against that course no longer hold the force they did. And there are new arguments now based on our place in Europe and in this 20th century. We have a common interest with the Northern people in peace and stability: we have a common interest in developing the potential of our island together. In agriculture, what is good for this part of the country is good, almost inevitably, for Northern farmers. In industry, our efforts can be complementary as well as competitive. The range of advantage in relation to a co-ordinated approach to many service industries—like tourism—is vast.

I mention these aspects to illustrate the extent of the common ground which exists between us and the need which exists for a declaration by the British Government of the wish to encourage the Irish people to come together, in reconciliation, under agreed structures, for the good of all of the people of both islands.

It is in the belief that progress achieved in this way, by discussion, negotiation and consent, as well as for reasons of common humanity, that the people continue to co-operate to the fullest extent possible in eliminating terrorism. The acts which have been committed in the present campaign in the name of Ireland are acts that will compel any decent Irishman to hang his head in shame.

There need be no doubt about the determination of the Irish Government to employ the full resources of security and of the law available to us in pursuing and bringing to justice those who engage in this campaign of violence.

There are, however, two complaints which are often voiced about security. The first concerns extradition. On this we have on numerous occasions made it clear that for constitutional reasons we cannot ratify the European Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism, the convention endorsed by the Council of Europe. This has been unjustifiably interpreted in some quarters as an unwillingness to give full commitment to the defeat of terrorism.

While we remain unable to ratify this convention we will be participating in a new EEC Agreement which will allow the European Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism to be applied between member states of the Community. This new agreement is based on the principle of "try or extradite" and it is tailor-made to meet our constitutional difficulties.

While we are anxious that full use be made of this new agreement as soon as it is ratified, together with the existing provisions of the Criminal Law Jurisdiction Act, to ensure that terrorists do not escape justice, it remains a fact that although the Criminal Law Jurisdiction Act has been in existence since 1976 evidence has not been forthcoming from the authorities in Northern Ireland that would allow the bringing to justice of suspected terrorists. If the present law is inadequate, there is always the course which this party have frequently advocated of establishing an all-Ireland Court which would quickly get over the difficulties.

Another complaint is based on the place of the Border in terrorist crime. We do not deny that the Border is a factor in the present campaign. Some would say it is its major reason. But it is—and can only be—a part of the total and to exaggerate its importance for propaganda or other reasons, does no one a service. Similarly, remarks from the media criticising this country's security efforts do no good. We have a common purpose in defeating terrorism and this purpose is not served by ill-founded public statements and comments on what we are doing. One such was reported on radio today, and I will not refer to it any further.

The ultimate solution is not one concerned with security alone. It is concerned with common humanity and the ability of Irishmen to live and work together. In this approach, the border itself would wither away, as an irrelevance.

The Government have at all times stressed that realisation of their objectives was subject to certain conditions. In relation to Northern Ireland these conditions depend both on how well we manage our affairs here, on how the political and economic situation develops there and on the attitude of the British Government. All these factors interact in the developing scene.

In relation to our economic programmes generally, it is clear that the conditions on which they were originally developed no longer obtain and that the potential for development of the economy in 1979 will not be realised. Some of these conditions are beyond our control—for instance, the rate of growth in world trade, the effects of the current oil situation and import price levels generally. We must not worsen the effect of these external factors by acting unwisely in relation to those conditions which are within our own control. I mean that we must not conduct our industrial relations in such a way as to impede economic growth. We must not seek incomes at a level which will inevitably destroy our competitiveness. We must pursue an energy policy which takes account of the realities in the world about us. In this area, in particular, self-indulgence or fantasy will destroy our prospects for growth and ensure that many of our young people will never get remunerative work. We must reduce our dependence on borrowing and reform our taxation system so that the burden is more equitably distributed and enterprise is encouraged. Investment is, in the end, the rock on which the whole economy is based.

These are difficulties which must and will be faced by the Government and I am convinced by the people of Ireland. The Government's development programmes have been followed since we came to office two years ago. The logical and consistent structure set out in these programmes have provided the framework within which the economy has developed so rapidly over these two years.

The resilience of the economy has shown, despite shocks external and self-administered, convinces me that Ireland is capable of sustained growth. This is not a conviction born of misplaced optimism but is based on objective assessment. We have a still underdeveloped agricultural sector which has great potential. We now have a guaranteed market with reasonable prices for the main commodities we produce. Secondly, coming late as we did to industrial development, we have created and are expanding a new industrial sector capable of competing in terms of equality with the best in the world. Much of this work is in areas of outstanding potential and is equipped with the most modern and sophisticated machinery. Our industry has duty-free access to the largest market in the developed world and our industrial output constitutes only a miniscule proportion of the overall output of the area. Consequently, we should be able to sell our industrial output provided its nature, price and quality is right.

Finally, we have a large and growing supply of adaptable, and increasingly skilled labour. The investment which successive Governments have put into education is bearing fruit. No one can fail to be impressed by the calibre of our young people. Our task, and theirs, is to release their undoubted abilities in a constructive way.

With these advantages, there is no reason why we should not be able to achieve continuous progress. It is our own actions that will make or mar our future.

I did not want to interrupt the Taoiseach but his statement on Northern Ireland is a considerable departure from the 1975 Fianna Fáil position.

It is not. It is completely consistent. The Deputy can make his case and it will be answered adequately.

That answer and applause is a slightly unfortunate beginning to this debate. I have not heard that kind of double talk and applause for it before——

I wanted to highlight that double talk and that is why I asked the question.

In the light of that, I will have to reflect on my feet on some of the things I intended to say, because I intend to respond to what the Taoiseach said. He has just made a statement which is incompatible with what is in his speech. I will come back to that.

This is an adjournment debate which gives us an opportunity to review the state of the nation and the performance of the Government over a wide range. One has to be selective in a debate of this kind. I propose to deal with three topics: I will deal with the UN situation in the Lebanon, briefly, because the Leader of the Labour Party will be speaking from first-hand recent experience and our Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy O'Keeffe, will be making a more extensive contribution from our benches on this subject; I will speak on Northern Ireland and the economic and social situation.

I want to start by reiterating the good wishes of this party to the Taoiseach and his Government in relation to the Presidency of the EEC. No one should underestimate the extent to which other countries in the EEC place hopes in the Irish Presidency and confidence in this country's ability to do a good job in this position. In the last few days I had the opportunity of talking to a distinguished civil servant from a country outside the Community who had recent contact with officials in a number of Community countries. He told me something of the hopes being expressed by officials and the confidence they have that Ireland, during its Presidency, can achieve for the Community things that cannot be achieved by larger countries with their many commitments and vested interests outside the Community itself. I hope the Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs will have success in their task and will make full use of the opportunities this country will have when it holds the Presidency of the Community.

I turn now briefly to the Lebanon. The situation there is grave for the people of the area and for the UN forces. This calls for the strongest international action and requires the full backing of the United States, to which Israel owes the armaments it has, on US evidence, directly used against UN forces, and contrary to its agreement with the United States, also against the Syrian air force, and which it has supplied to Major Haddad. I welcome the action of the Government in taking this matter to the UN Security Council and welcome their direct protests to the Government of Israel about the Foreign Minister and the Prime Minister of Lebanon. These actions, if maintained, and if we had secured full and uninhibited US backing for the international peace-keeping effort, would eventually yield results. I say this because I believe Israel is ultimately sensitive to world opinion and knows it cannot afford to arouse the hostility of countries in the West which have always been friendly to it, including our own.

The action taken internationally—I am not complaining about our Government in this respect—has not yet been on the necessary scale or of required duration, nor has it had strong enough international support or evoked sufficient pressure from the US and Israel, to produce visible results. The Israeli Government have yet to assert control over their armed forces who have shown their continued intransigence by a raid in the last few days into the Irish sector in contempt of all international law and of the UN. Moreover, we have had the attitude of the Israeli Government themselves reflected in what can only be described as an unscrupulous and disgraceful propaganda compaign mounted and carried on against UN forces, especially Irish forces, with no discouragement from the Israeli Government that we can see. These forces have now been there for a year, effectively protecting Israel from Palestinian attacks and they have been thanked for this by this malicious campaign of slander.

That in these circumstances and at this moment our Minister for Foreign Affairs should have been so inept as to assert—that is his own word—"that the Government's representations and protests have been successful" and to deny the evidence available to the world that Major Haddad's forces have recently raised the profile of their aggression, is scarcely believable. I was astounded to hear him make this claim in the Dáil yesterday. In the first place the statement was grossly provocative and made what should have remained a nonpartisan issue—that is the lives of Irish soldiers at stake—a political football to use a phrase from another arena.

Secondly, by expressing such untimely satisfaction with Israeli reactions and those of Major Haddad's forces in the face of obvious lack of any reaction, the Minister was offering dangerous encouragement to the Israeli and Haddad's forces to continue their stepped-up campaign against our and other UN forces, and was weakening the possibility of the Israeli Government being either willing or able to assert their control over the situation or ceasing encouragement for and tolerance of an anti-UN and anti-Irish propaganda campaign. This could only increase the risk to our soldiers which the efforts of the Taoiseach and the Minister were designed, rightly, to reduce.

Thirdly, by dismissing the first-hand evidence from the Leader of the Labour Party of the heightened aggression by the Haddad forces, the Minister was undermining his own capacity to react effectively through international channels to the increased threat now evident from this source.

I will leave the matter there. The Minister's blunder was gross but, leaving on one side his unhappy precipitation of the crisis in Fianna Fáil over their Northern Ireland policy in October 1975, was uncharacteristic. I hope that on reflection he will be chastened by realisation of the damage he has done and will set about repairing it. In this connection I make the constructive suggestion that the aid of Ireland's friends in the US Congress be sought in this matter in view of their power to influence the US Administration, who ultimately exercise the only real control over Israeli actions. I suggest that the Minister forward to key figures in the US Congress the report by the Leader of the Labour Party and that he seek their active support for a major US diplomatic effort vis-à-vis Israel. He should publicise this initiative widely so as to mobilise support of constructive elements in Irish-American opinion in aid of the Irish and other elements in the UN forces who are seeking to preserve peace in the area in the interest of Israel inter alia.

I turn now to Northern Ireland on which I would like to speak at some length. I have listened with interest to what the Taoiseach has said. I doubt if there is anything in what he has said that I can dissent from, but it is totally at variance with the policy into which he was dragged in October 1975 and from which he has with considerable skill extricated himself.

Analysing the present situation in Northern Ireland, there are a number of new elements, some helpful, others more doubtful. First, we have the UK Government with a clear majority and the possibility of a fresh start after a long period during which the situation at Westminister inhibited any initiative and led to a serious drift in British policy on both sides of the House. There is nothing to be gained by recriminations over this sad—perhaps one could even say tragic—period. It has eroded disastrously the political position of the moderates in Northern Ireland, mainly on the Unionist side, and has made a solution much more difficult. I believe that many British politicians are very uncomfortable about this recent record and would wish to try to put it right, even though they will find this very difficult now because of the damage they have done to moderate unionism.

It is important that we approach this new political situation and the new British Government with open minds, leaving on one side any sense of bitterness over lost opportunities. I believe that this is the approach of the Government and, if so, I am glad to support them in it. The new situation has been marred by the unfortunate incident following the visit of the Northern Ireland Secretary of State which has aroused echoes of other occasions when Anglo-Irish relations and the possibility of progress in Northern Ireland have been endangered by tendentious briefings or statements, usually by officials, after meetings between representatives of the two Governments. However, we should put this down as an error of judgment by the new Minister, who was possibly badly advised as previous Secretaries of State have at times been badly advised in these matters. I accept that the statement made was incorrect and I am sure that our Ministers in what they said to the Secretary of State did not react in the way it was suggested they did.

The second new element in the situation is the remarkable reinforcement of the moderate SDLP in the European elections. A careful study of the results of these elections makes it clear that a small but significant number of the majority section of the community in Northern Ireland voted for John Hume on the non-sectarian basis that he is the best man to represent Northern Ireland in Europe. If one examines carefully the voting pattern and takes the votes cast for the SDLP and for other groups—who because of their policies derive their support solely from some sections of the minority in Northern Ireland—and for the Alliance Party, who draw possibly one-third of their votes from members of the minority, and put these together, one finds that the total support for those parties exceeds by about two percentage points the percentage of the population in Northern Ireland which is Roman Catholic by religion and Nationalist by tradition. When one considers the extent of intimidation in some areas in Belfast and south Armagh, where the minority are—one might almost say confined—and the inevitable effect of that intimidation on voting in those areas which had no corresponding factor in the areas which are overwhelmingly occupied by the majority, which must have depressed the vote of the minority to some degree, one can only come to the conclusion that something like 3 per cent of the total votes in Northern Irelend were cast for John Hume by members of the majority community.

That is a very heartening development. It may be small but it is a significant crossing of the sectarian divide. The total vote secured by John Hume is remarkable evidence that, despite all that the minority had suffered and all the provocations of the past decade and intimidation of the population in areas where Provisional terrorism is still an important factor, the vast bulk of the minority in Northern Ireland on their side are determined to reject violence and sectarianism and in the face of every discouragement to remain dedicated to seeking a solution by peaceful means through that political vehicle, the SDLP, which emerged eight years ago creating a hope of a solution to this intractable problem which hope had not existed previously in the absence of such a party.

This constructive result is balanced on the other side by a swing in support among the majority section of the community away from the Official Unionist Party towards the DUP of Dr. Paisley. This result is, no doubt, a reflection of a number of factors at work. First, there is the erosion of moderate Unionism by the prolonged drift in British policy which encouraged the unrealistic belief that a British Government might restore the political situation that existed before March 1972 and tended to swing some support behind Dr. Paisley. Secondly, there are the inadequacies of leadership among the Official Unionist Party. That party have never recovered from the attrition of years of effective one-party Government which discouraged the flow of talent into party ranks. Thirdly, we must face also the growth of a sense of isolation and consequent neurosis of fear among many in the majority community. We in this part of Ireland must never forget that, while we speak of the Unionist-Loyalists as a majority—and they are that within Northern Ireland—deep down they feel and act as a minority in the island as a whole. While we in the Republic have learned much in the past ten years and while generally we avoid the grosser stupidities which in earlier decades reinforced these fears and this intransigence, we are still far from understanding or being able to empathise with this sense of fear and isolation among these one million compatriots of ours.

One of the outward signs of this insensitivity is at present completing its tortuous progress through this House, the so-called Family Planning Bill, which bears the stamp of unreflecting sectarianism in almost every line and which, if there is any justice, should put paid forever to any pretensions which the Minister for Health may have had of being concerned about Irish unity, to being what it has been fashionable in Fianna Fáil circles to call a "Republican". Anyone who pretends that this Bill would ever have taken its present shape were it not for the influence on this Government's thinking of the attitudes of a particular Church should try telling that to some Unionist horse marines in Northern Ireland.

I, for one, am not prepared to whitewash this measure and I cannot see how I can honestly or effectively argue the case for early political unity in Ireland with a grossly hypocritical measure of this kind working its way on to our Statute Book. All I can do now when I meet Northern Unionists is tell them that I would like to see them working within an all-Ireland framework to help create a genuine pluralist Christian society here and we badly need such help. I can hardly blame them if they express a preference for waiting to see us introduce at least an advance instalment of pluralism before they take such a plunge.

If only every Member of this House, every person who exercises influence of any kind in our society, were willing to do one small thing for the Irish unity to which we purport to aspire and go to Northern Ireland and hear what ordinary Irishmen among this million think of us, of our hypocrisies and our doublethink, they would see for themselves just how we over 60 years have persistently undermined the chance of any movement together of these two parts of Ireland. The return of these legislators and opinion-formers to this part of Ireland after this chastening experience, to which I have subjected myself countless times, could transform the chances of making progress towards our common goal—an Ireland governed by Irishmen on a basis agreed among Irishmen.

Why, I ask myself, did the Taoiseach not use the opportunity we afforded him of four years in Opposition to visit the North at all, never mind frequently, and send there his front bench members to learn at first hand what are the obstacles to Irish unity and just how many of these obstacles lie South rather than North of the Border? Why did he never go? Why did hardly any of his colleagues ever go? If they had, I believe we should have been spared the farce of this so-called Family Planning Bill and much else besides that still raises barriers between the two parts of this island.

There is one other new factor in the situation—the Fine Gael policy document on Northern Ireland, which the Taoiseach generally welcomed. Considerable thought went into the preparation of this policy, thought as to its content, its formulation and the timing, manner and place of its presentation. I have to say that I have been encouraged by the reception it has received here, in Northern Ireland, in Britain and in the United States and abroad. Of course we had no illusions that the presentation of a document outlining the possible shape of what we are accustomed to call "Irish unity" would produce a conversion overnight of Northern Unionists to the concept of a united Ireland. But the document has, I believe, achieved the aims we set out to achieve and something more besides.

Firstly, its reception here has established what had never hitherto been clearly established, although most of us probably felt it to be the case, that is, that the people of the Republic do not seek in any way to dominate or interfere with the people of Northern Ireland or the majority within that area. On the contrary the ambition of most people in this State runs to a political association between North and South within which both would retain their autonomy, but would work together on a basis of equality in relation to matters of common concern where we, North and South, could do more together than separately.

Secondly, I am encouraged because the reaction here confirmed for the first time in a clear-cut way that this is what we mean by "Irish unity". This has led to some relaxation of the fears of Northern Unionists with respect to the South. It is only a small relaxation at this point, confined perhaps to a number of thinking people, but it is nevertheless a step in the right direction. This I confirmed for myself when I returned to Belfast a week after presenting the policy there and addressed three very different meetings. It was confirmed, too, by the press reaction there and by the denunciations which Unionist politicians did not pronounce, apart from the remarkably low-key comments on television on the evening the policy was published. It is confirmed also by the continued lively interest in our policy by a wide range of individuals and bodies in Northern Ireland, some of which I could mention but I will not. The interest they have shown is encouraging but the benefits would be prejudiced if one mentioned the bodies concerned.

The third point is that I believe the publication of this policy has encouraged in a modest way the minority in Northern Ireland to persist with the politics of moderation in the face of every discouragement offered to them. We have only helped in that regard and the credit for their stance must go to the minority themselves. It is right that we should try to help.

Fourthly, while designed in the first instance to reduce tensions hitherto aroused by our undefined use of the phrase "Irish unity" and thus to counterbalance in some measure some of the forces operating against progress towards a resolution of the problem of internal self-government there, this policy was also intended to provide a basis for discussion and debate about the long-term shape of an agreed solution of the Irish problem. In this area it has succeeded beyond our expectations. The type of rational discussion of the economic and social issues involved in a new North-South relationship it has evoked among Unionists is something quite new in the politics of Partition, if I may call them that. When I face hardline Unionists arguing not about William III or threats to what they describe as Protestant liberties but instead earnestly arguing as to whether the Common Agricultural Policy of the EEC will survive in a form that would leave it as it is today, a continuing source of common ground between North and South, or whether that will not happen, then I know that something is starting to change. We are starting to talk about realities instead of myths and we have helped to bring about that change.

The number of seminars and discussions that have been arranged to discuss this document here, in the North and Britain, the obviously sincere and positive interest of senior British politicians of all parties in what some of them freely describe in discussion as the shape of the Ireland they would hope to see, the constructive comments of serious British journals on the proposals, the reading of the document into the Congressional Record of the United States, the demand for copies from politicians, academics and others from many countries—all this exceeds any expectations we had when we produced the document. I do not for one moment claim for it that it has effected any significant change in the immediate political situation; it never could have done so and has not. However, it has introduced a new element into the situation which I believe will ferment over time and produce a palatable brew.

I hope the Taoiseach's party will soon produce their own reflections on this subject and that their document, reflecting as it must the particular insights of the Fianna Fáil Party, will be such as to reinforce the beneficial effects which our policy statement has achieved. In the meantime this party will co-operate with the Government in all efforts to work with the British Government towards a resolution of the Northern Ireland problem. I am satisfied with the co-operation which exists in relation to exchange of factual information between this party and the Government in relation to Northern Ireland, which is without prejudice to the necessary freedom of both Government and Opposition to formulate and pursue their own policies, whatever malicious attempts may be made to suggest otherwise by people who are interested in fomenting disunity rather than in seeking agreement between Irishmen, North and South, on the future of this island.

While our two parties have somewhat different perspectives on the Northern Ireland issue and will continue to formulate their own positions in their own terms, I believe it may be desirable that we strive to work by similar means towards our common goal. Wherever there is genuine common ground between us, it would be no bad thing that we should endeavour in the time ahead to find and stand on this common ground. I believe that such common ground may, perhaps, be usefully sought in relation to the rethinking of British policy with regard to Ireland.

When we in Government achieved the Sunningdale Agreement, whose main feature was tragically destroyed less than six months later with the downfall of the Northern Ireland Executive, it was welcomed generously by the Taoiseach and his party, then in Opposition. One of the features of that agreement which, I believe, was generally welcomed here was the first positive statement by a British Government since 1920 of a commitment to support Irish unity achieved by consent. Sadly that commitment was subsequently allowed by the British Government of the day to pass into temporary oblivion. I believe that this solemn statement in the Sunningdale communiqué reflects the reality of the views of most British politicians. Most of them believe that the eventual solution should and will take the form of a coming together of North and South in a recognition of common shared interest. Most of them are free from any desire for their country to play a part in our affairs for any longer than is necessary to find a peaceful resolution of the Irish question.

I believe, too, that most Northern Unionists, who prefer to hear the truth rather than what they quickly identify as hypocrisy, would prefer that, if this is what most British politicians and British people think, it should be stated frankly with the rider, on which we insist as much as anyone else, that this support by Britain for a coming together of North and South, while it might be accompanied by measures designed to encourage such a development, must not involve any constraints on the majority in Northern Ireland, which could be totally counterproductive. I believe that if in fact the parties in this House see such a British reiteration of the Sunningdale position as a constructive step, it could be of value for us to express this view jointly.

In making this suggestion I am obliged to add, as uncontentiously as possible, that such a joint position would have to be free of any confused or emotive language that would strengthen the fears, and thus the intransigence of the Northern majority. I will not, in the interests of avoiding contention, cite the kind of language which I have in mind, but I believe the Members of this House will know of what I speak. I have to add, however, that the common ground which I hope exists, would disappear very quickly if under political pressures within his party the Taoiseach considered it necessary to revert back to the kind of policy statement or language to which he was temporarily forced to assent in October 1975, but from which he has subsequently, wisely and skillfully, disengaged himself. I hope that the report in this morning's Irish Times that the Taoiseach at Wednesday's meeting reiterated that unfortunate statement and was loudly applauded for doing so is incorrect, for Ireland's sake. I am led, since getting on my feet, to wonder whether it is incorrect. I was about to say in my speech that in view of the language the Taoiseach used this morning I can only presume that the report must be incorrect. The Taoiseach's intervention at the outset has, I am afraid, somewhat confused the situation.

May I intervene at this stage because it gives me an opportunity to say that much of the statements in all the newspapers about that meeting were incorrect. They were purely speculative.

Not the Taoiseach's 1975 Northern policy.

May I say, at this stage as well, if the Deputy will allow me to intervene, that on the assumption that I would be opening this debate yesterday morning, I arranged a meeting at 12 noon today. I informed the leaders of both Opposition parties last night, so I hope the Deputy will understand that there is no discourtesy intended if I have to leave now.

I fully understand the Taoiseach's position. The arrangements for the debate were last minute ones and it is understandable that this difficulty should arise. I regret the Taoiseach will not be here but he will no doubt study my remarks.

One other suggestion. The Deputy, because he is reading what he is saying, is speaking rather more quickly than he usually does. It is not unusual that even Opposition Deputies make available statements, from which they read, to the House so I wonder would that be possible?

Will the Taoiseach give us more staff?

I am afraid it would not be easily decipherable by anybody else, but the Taoiseach is welcome to have a copy of my notes if he thinks they are of sufficient interest. The last thing we need at this moment, when our moral position has been so much strengthened by the rethinking being forced on British politicians by the evidence in Dr. Paisley's success of the disastrous effects of the drift in their policy over the past few years and by the new sensitivity in Britain to growing American concern about Northern Ireland, is an outburst of so-called republicanism in the Government party. Let not that party or anyone else in this State, stab us in the back at a moment when international opinion is starting to move in favour of a constructive solution of the Irish problem.

I hope these blunt words will not be misunderstood or taken amiss. I would not be doing my duty if I did not speak plainly on this point, nor would my offer of co-operation in respect of any common ground make sense if I did not make it clear not alone where I feel that common ground may be found but also where it is certainly not going to be found. I will leave this subject at that.

I would like to comment briefly on the Taoiseach's remarks about security. I find myself in agreement with everything he has said on this subject and I am glad he has said the things he has said which needed to be said. I am glad that progress is continuing with the new EEC agreement for a European convention on the supression of terrorism to be applied between member states of the Community. Our Government have a particular responsibility for the shape this has taken because when this originally arose in the European Council, as a suggestion for a convention against the taking of hostages, it was our immediate intervention in the discussion to propose that this agreement should, unlike that then being drafted in the Council of Europe, allow for the principle of trial in the country of arrest as well as extradition. It was our immediate intervention to that effect which led the European Council to adopt that proposal there and then, to confirm it at their later meeting and to carry this through in a convention which will be found far more effective, not merely between ourselves and Britain but between other countries.

The Council of Europe Convention against terrorism was badly drafted. I believe it was drafted without full understanding of member governments about what they were doing. I say that advisedly because I had the duty to point out to the member governments of the EEC that the convention in the Council of Europe they were about to sign was totally at variance, and the principle was based on pure extradition, with what they had agreed to do in the new EEC convention. I found that within other member governments there were two different sets of people operating. There were Ministers for Justice who were proceeding on the extradition line in the Council of Europe and Ministers of Foreign Affairs and heads of Government, who had a quite different view in the European Council. Unfortunately the unco-ordinated position within other member countries led to a situation where the Council of Europe convention was adopted with reservations by France. We were not in a position to sign it.

I believe we took a more honest position that other countries. Other countries have since found that what was foisted on them by their Ministers for Justice, a group of people who should never be allowed to get out of control, as happened on this occasion I am afraid, was unworkable. One of my colleague Foreign Ministers told me that in his case he was totally unaware and so were his Department for the entire year the negotiations were going on and had never been informed about it. He was in a major country in Europe and found it too late to stop it even though he believed the convention was unconstitutional in his country. It was a most unfortunate development. It is unworkable and has been found to be so in a number of countries. It has been used unscrupulously as a propaganda weapon against us, despite that background. I am very glad indeed it will be supplemented by a convention, which will be workable not only between ourselves and Britain but between other member countries of the Community.

I am very glad that the Taoiseach in his remarks said that the Government are anxious to make full use not only of this new agreement when it is ratified but also the existing provisions of the Criminal Law Jurisdiction Act to ensure that terrorists do not escape justice. I am glad that he said that. His party in Opposition opposed the enactment of this Act. I do not fault them for their opposition as it is the job of Opposition to oppose. It is right that they should in any area which affects human rights test out to the full the actions of the Government in power at the time, as we did in regard to another Act shortly before the Government changed in 1973. It is right, having done that work in opposition, that on coming into government one accepts the law as it is and operates it. I am glad that in this respect the Taoiseach has made it perfectly clear that he intends and wishes to operate this Act. I am glad he makes no bones about referring to the people against whom it will be used, as terrorists, the word which we are sometimes rather shy of using in this country in relation to the people concerned.

I am glad the Taoiseach has brought out strongly, as I have been endeavouring to do for the past year in every possible form, that the reason why this Act has not been put into force is that in no single instance have the British authorities furnished us with evidence that anybody in this State has committed any offence in Northern Ireland. In the last year of our period in Government, when the Act was in force and in opposition since then, in any contacts I have had with British politicians and on any occasions I have had to speak in Britain on British television or on radio, I have used those occasions to press this point home and indeed in the British press. I cannot feel that the action of the British authorities in this regard has been honest or honourable. They have at one and the same time failed to produce evidence in any single incidence of a fugitive terrorist in this State against whom there is evidence in Northern Ireland, and have pursued, sporadically when it has suited their temporary political interests, a propaganda campaign suggesting that this State is full of such people. They have never faced up to, or been forced in Parliament to face up to, the question of reconciling these two positions.

The Opposition in the British Parliament prior to the last Government did not do their duty in this respect in testing why the Government were not using the law. I should like to add one point of clarification because there is confusion about it. There was a statement by the former British Secretary of State for Northern Ireland that this Act was used in this State in one case. I was under the impression that this might have been the case from information I had but I now understand that this is not the case. There is no instance in which this Act has been used even without evidence from Northern Ireland. I thought there had been such a case where on the basis of a confession somebody had been prosecuted under the Act. As a result of a thorough search for evidence on the subject, I have now been informed that there is no such case even of the Act being used without evidence from Britain and no case where evidence has been furnished.

From comments made by the new Secretary of State I formed the impression—I hope I am right—that he intends to use the Act and whatever inhibitions that prevented its use before—and these inhibitions seem to be not unrelated to questions of propaganda—may now disappear and the Act may be used effectively. Frankly, I find it difficult to believe that there has been no case in the period since the Act was brought in three years ago in which anyone from Northern Ireland who has evidence of an offence of violence in Northern Ireland has crossed the Border into the Republic. It would be surprising, not to say astonishing, that this has never happened. Failure to produce the evidence in these circumstances can only be seen as rather sinister. I am glad this point has been brought out by the Taoiseach and I support fully what he said on this subject.

I want to turn now to the economic and social state of the country as we find it two years after this Government have taken office. In dealing with this subject I cannot avoid controversy because the matters I have to deal with are essentially contentious. However, I shall try to make the main part of my analysis as objective as possible.

We find ourselves today facing a grave world economic situation with the prospect of a major and prolonged shortage of energy which may well extend beyond the lifetime of most people here into an unknown future, which for our children's sake we must hope will be a future in which new forms of energy can be harnessed, some perhaps as yet undreamed of.

The situation is grave enough for the major industrialised economies to have committed themselves to no increase in oil imports for the next six years. Save to the extent that domestic energy sources available in the short-term remain to be tapped—and it is not clear that such short-term increases in domestic energy supplies within the industrialised world are likely to be significant—this decision implies that economic growth in the industrialised world in this period will be limited to whatever can be achieved through energy conservation measures that will enable existing resources of energy to yield a higher output in terms of economic activity.

This is an intimidating prospect for countries not because there is no room for energy saving—on the contrary there is enormous room for it—but because none of the countries or peoples are ready for the kind of radical changes required to secure these major energy savings. Listening to the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy yesterday listing the actions taken by the Government to save energy in the State sector, I could only be struck by their very limited character and by the improbability that the measures could yield anything like what would be needed to give us the extra available energy to secure economic growth in the years ahead.

There is also the problem that the international co-operation mechanism even within such a Community as the EEC is not yet strong enough to carry the strains that would be involved if all these countries were to make the joint efforts necessary to achieve significant results in this area. For us the prospect is a particularly worrying one because of our unique demographic structure among industralised countries. This requires a rate of economic growth beyond that of any other country. Moreover, we are at least as vulnerable as others, and possibly more vulnerable than many, to the new technological revolution which is going to displace a large proportion of the existing work force in all industrial countries.

I should like to say here that the country is greatly indebted to the ASTMS for having organised a seminar on the subject of this technological revolution some weeks ago and which gave many of us an insight into the scale and magnitude of the problems we face of disemployment of a large proportion of the labour force in 12 to 15 years by this new technology. It is to be regretted that the Government were so uninterested that they did not send anyone to the seminar to hear what had to be said. I find it hard to believe that the Government are so well informed on this subject that they would not have learned, as I did, an enormous amount from the seminar and the documentation involved.

I should like to add one point about the demographic situation. Reading a letter in The Irish Times recently I am under the impression that some people misunderstand the nature of our demographic problem. This letter seemed to suggest that we were over-breeding at a terrible rate. The fact is that since 1966, a brief interval after the publication of Humanae Vitae, the rate of fertility in Ireland has been declining more rapidly than in any other country. The last year for which figures are available showed a drop of about 6 per cent in fertility in a single year when the average for earlier years was 3½ per cent. This is an astonishing change that is taking place in our society.

The reason we have a very high birthrate is not because of any sudden burst of fertility. In fact, the exact opposite is happening; people are adjusting to totally new and much lower patterns of fertility. The reason is that we have an enormous increase in the number of young people—some 60 per cent more 20 year-olds than there were 18 years ago. Even though a disturbingly high proportion of these 20 year-olds who would normally have been getting married at this point are not getting married for whatever reason—and I have suggested that some research might be done on this matter—many of them are getting married and even though they may be having less children than their parents had 25 years ago, in consequence of the number of young people concerned the children are sufficiently numerous to raise our birthrate to a level higher than it has been at any time in the past half-century. It would be unfortunate if a wrong impression were given that our demographic problems arise from some extraordinarily high rate of fertility when that is adjusting downwards. People should understand the nature of the problem.

Because we succeeded in slowing down the process of emigration in the 1960s and because in the 1970s we actually reversed net emigration for a period when it became net immigration, we have a vast number of young people. Even though fewer of them are getting married and are having less children than previous generations, they are producing a new generation on a larger scale than we have seen before in absolute terms and will continue to do so for some time to come. Uniquely this country among the industrialised countries has a demographic problem running into the next century. It is something we have to face. It is there and it cannot now be changed. It may be that in some years to come the number of births will fall and, if so, the numbers seeking employment in 15 or 20 years time will fall but that is for the next century. As far as this century is concerned, the children are there. They will be seeking education, employment and homes and that will impose on the country a burden on the one hand but it will also provide an opportunity for growth that has no parallel in the rest of the industrialised world. Our needs in energy and capital to modernise and expand our economy are on a far larger scale relative to our size than those of any other industrialised country. That needs to be said.

The implications of this situation clearly have not yet penetrated our body politic. There is little or no sign of any recognition among the various sectoral interests or the population at large of how we are threatened by the energy crisis or of how radical a change in our traditional attitudes will be required if we are to survive the storms ahead without a totally disastrous level of unemployment on a scale unimaginably greater than anything we have yet seen.

I am deeply worried that the Government do not seem to have yet grasped what is at stake, never mind showing the capacity for leadership needed to bring our people with them through the crisis we face in the decades ahead. There are signs in the utterances of Government Ministers of a continuing blindness to this situation, of a complacancy that even in more normal times would be dangerous to the cohesion of our society but which in these circumstances is absolutely alarming. It is abundantly clear that the Government have not yet even faced the short-term cyclical crisis which their manifesto policies have inevitably precipitated even in advance of the energy crisis. Let us be clear that the downturn in our economy which is now reaching such proportions began, as we know from objective sources such as the Central Bank, in the second half of last year. That was before the Iranian crisis, so that it was not caused by that crisis though it was aggravated by the situation in Iran.

Within recent days we have had the increasingly non-credible Minister for Economic Planning and Development telling us that growth this year could still attain 5 per cent. Apparently he misled the Taoiseach into believing that, because he talked this morning of a maximum of 5 per cent being possible. It is bad enough that the Government should try to fool the people but it is worse that they should be misleading themselves on this subject. The same Minister has said that inflation will be down to 6 per cent by the end of this year and the Taoiseach has just told us, as if he believes it, that the Government expect to repeat and hopefully improve on last years flash-in-the-pan increase in employment in a situation in which economic growth is declining very rapidly.

What kind of wonderland does the Minister for Economic Planning and Development inhabit? Why does he continue to mislead his Prime Minister on the subject of our economic situation? Has he any appreciation of the damage he is doing by these kinds of statements, statements that are encouraging the greatest complacency both inside and outside the Government and which by their cloud cuckoo-land optimism are standing in the way of a realistic appreciation of the extent of the crisis we now face?

This attitude is not even good politics, though it is hardly for me to teach politics to the people opposite. However, even at this stage in their career, it would appear that they need a lesson. The Minister may have been told recently in another place that it is not good politics to pursue that line. If he and his colleagues had even a crude sense of political survival, not to mention minimum political policy or an appreciation of economic reality, they would be warning the people of the difficulties that lie ahead and would be trying to salvage something for themselves by attributing as much of the difficulty as possible to the energy crisis in the hope that the public might be led to forget the extent to which our current problems are the creation of the Government. Instead, the party opposite have lost even the instinct for self preservation to carry out that exercise. The simple fact is that no one other than the Minister, either in Ireland or outside, expects this country to achieve a growth rate in excess of 3 to 4 per cent this year or next and that these forecasts are likely to be revised downwards, perhaps more than once as the gravity of the energy crisis, is added to the downturn in the domestic economy.

The Taoiseach, and those of his Minister who are literate economically, know as well as I know that, with output per worker increasing last year by 5¼ per cent and likely in any conceivable set of circumstances to increase this year and next, as has been the case for 20 years past, by about 4 per cent, these growth rates of 3 to 4 per cent in output mean no increase in employment but, if anything, a slight reduction. They know as well as I know that to attempt to meet this situation, not by stimulating the economy and not by reducing costs to encourage growth but instead by promising to add to dead-weight Government spending by employing thousands more people in the public sector regardless of whether there is anything for them to do, is a recipe for disaster rather than for economic success. That may not be a popular statement but we are long past the time to play for short-term popularity. If that is the Government's tactic they are welcome to it but they will be shocked to find how remarkably short-term any such popularity will be.

As for inflation, we are living in a fantasy world. With energy prices increasing by 40 per cent—the figure given this morning by the Taoiseach—and with wage rates planned to increase by 13 per cent per annum, which will involve earnings increases of close to 20 per cent, and with wage costs thus likely to increase by about 15 per cent, given a 4 per cent rise in productivity, it is the act of someone living on another and cosier planet to talk of a 6 per cent inflation rate at the end of the year.

The Government's policies have precipitated a raging inflation which they have lost the power to control. They must have known in 1977, as well as we knew, that while inflation was falling rapidly because of our policies, while it would decrease to about 7 per cent by mid-1978 and while this situation had enabled wage rates to be negotiated on a 7 per cent per annum increase basis early in 1977, we were bound to face some resurgence of inflationary pressures after mid-1978. If these pressures were to be contained and the beneficent cycle of sharply declining inflation was to be maintained beyond mid-1978 it was vital that the Government retained leeway to prevent inflation rising again and instead to push it down further by way of tax cuts or increased subsidies in the period from mid-1978 onwards, specifically in the 1979 Budget.

That was the only strategy that any responsible Government could follow. Instead, in order to get into office, literally at any price they "gave away"—and I put those words in inverted commas—in their first budget almost £250 million a year and increased the debt service by £50 million, thereby pushing up the current deficit by £300 million more than it would otherwise have been and at the cost of jacking-up borrowing to 13 per cent of GNP.

This led to what the Taoiseach described—rather honestly, I thought—as disorder in the public finances. He said that the Government would restore order but they were the ones that were responsible for the disorder. The action they took left them with no leeway whatever facing into the crucial 1979 Budget. In that budget they had to cut borrowing sharply if they were to retain any credibility with those both here and abroad who lend them money. As a result, instead of being able to make tax cuts or to increase subsidies in order to shave 2 to 3 per cent off the cost of living, which would have kept inflation down to about 7 per cent or even lower, they raised taxes, thus adding about 2½ per cent to the cost of living and increasing it therefore to 12½ per cent before we were hit by the impact of the oil crisis.

This has inevitably precipitated a wage round at almost twice the level of 1977 and has introduced a major domestic inflationary element at precisely the moment when external inflation is starting to hit us for six. This new domestic inflationary element has been introduced also at precisely the moment when we face an external payment situation which, in conjunction with Government-induced inflation, is now threatening to undermine the Irish pound in relation to EMS currencies. That has not happened yet, but from the misreporting in the papers of the relationship between sterling and the Irish pound one would think that it had happened. However, there is now a serious threat that it will happen as a result of Government policy.

The Taoiseach referred to the money increase in the external payments deficit, but do the Government realise that in the first five months of this year the volume of imports was rising two-and-a-half times as fast as the volume of exports—by about 20 per cent as against 8 per cent? Does the Taoiseach realise the implications of this? He indicated today for the first time a realisation that a significant part of the increase in imports is a result of an increase in consumer imports. I note that he did not make reference to the promised Buy Irish Campaign that was supposed to reduce the import share of home consumption by 3 per cent. I have not made any calculation recently but I would guess at this stage that the import share of home consumption will have increased by 5 per cent since the Government came to office so that the situation is considerably worse than the Taoiseach admitted.

Has the Taoiseach grasped the effect on our balance of payments of a deterioration in our merchandise trade balance of more than £270 million in the first five months of the year, a year in which receipts from tourism, instead of growing to bridge part of this gap, will be reduced disastrously as a result of the Government's incompetence, thus adding to the yawning gulf in our external payments arising from this enormous increase in the deficit on merchandise trade? Could one of the Ministers yet to speak tell us what now is the forecast for our external payments this year and what is the likely movement in our external reserves, already so drastically reduced from the monetary peak reached at the end of last year as a result of speculative movements in the Irish pound?

I am concerned about this because the Central Bank's annual report contains a forecast of the balance of payments this year. With respect to the Central Bank—and events have been moving very rapidly, and I do not know exactly on what date this was written—their forecast seems to me to be a gross underestimate. The increase in the deficit in the trade account they show is £239 million. That figure had been reached and passed at the end of April. To let it stand there meant that the Central Bank were assuming there would be no further increase in the trade deficit in the remaining eight months of the year. I cannot understand on what basis that forecast was made. All I can say is that the May figures, with a further colossal increase in the deficit, would falsify that expectation immediately.

I note that the Central Bank's report also suggests that the income from services, in which the predominant item is tourism, would rise from £185 million to £201 million. The report must have been written, and that table must have been prepared, quite some months ago, because it ignores what is happening in the tourist sector. The forecast of a deficit of £380 million in the Central Bank's annual report is clearly a major under-estimate of the reality. We should be given the cold facts about the situation before we leave this House for the summer recess, during which the continuing deterioration in the situation, in our inflation rate pushed up by the energy crisis, and by the new domestic generated inflation, and by the external payments crisis, could greatly weaken our pound which so far has held its own, partly because of Central Bank intervention in support of it. One must recall that originally it was intended that the Central Bank would intervene only for a brief period after the EMS was established. They have had to keep doing so and they will find it very hard to stop intervening at this stage when market forces arising from the deterioration in the economy will put the pound under such pressure.

The Government face all this with no shot left in their locker to deal with the inflation they have generated. They emptied the locker irresponsibly two years ago in order to secure the doubtful privilege of governing in a situation which they have thus rendered effectively ungovernable. To the damage thus done they have contrived to add the destructive effects of disastrous labour relations. They closed down our postal and many of our telephone services for many months at appalling cost to our tourist industry and to the long-term prospects of investment in this country. They lack the wit, the skill and the imagination to negotiate before the strike that settlement which they had inevitably to come to after months of erosion of our economy.

They have added to this damage the mishandling of our oil situation, with a short-lived bluff attempt by the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy vis-à-vis the multinationals, which cost us dear in further disruption of our economy and to which the Taoiseach referred this morning, somewhat sharply. It is not usual for Taoiseachs to publicly reprimand their Ministers, but he said higher oil prices were a fact of life now, and seeking scapegoats among the oil companies, or the organisation of the market, or the way oil is distributed, would help no one. I am not sure whether the Minister was here to hear that.

I should have been watching his face at that point.

A Deputy

Where are the Cabinet now?

A Deputy

Out running the country.

They were certainly running on Wednesday.

Bring them back quickly before they do any more damage.

(Interruptions.)

I look forward to the contributions of Fianna Fáil backbenchers in this debate. I trust they will be as frank with the House as they were on Wednesday last. I hope they will not be excluded from the debate or discouraged from participating in it. We should like to hear their comments.

As if this were not enough, we had the Government's incompetent budgetary approach in which they lost all control of the budget and handed over power to sectional interests, and set town against country, in precisely the way we in Government avoided doing at whatever cost to our own political popularity. We have to add to that the damage they have done to the confidence of the farming sector at a vital time. Irish agriculture is now at a crucial turning point. It has had all the benefits it will get from adjustment to the Common Agricultural Policy, all the benefits it will get in terms of green £ adjustments as well as accession adjustments.

We have now reached a point when the cessation of those sources of increased income is coinciding with strong pressures to halt any increases of the ordinary annual kind in farm prices. So, from a period of totally exceptional increase in farm prices, deriving from three different sources operating simultaneously, Irish agriculture now faces a virtually static price situation in the period ahead. The adjustment to that will be extremely difficult for the farming Community. They will need every assistance to face it and every encouragement to increase productivity as the only available source of higher incomes and, above all, they will need to be given certainty and confidence that will encourage them to invest further in the face of this intimidating situation and to invest in adjusted forms of farm enterprise, in some cases where the forms of investment in the past few years may not prove appropriate in the new situation.

What have the Government done? They have destroyed that confidence at a vital time by introducing a variety of different taxes and by leaving uncertainty as to what the shape of taxation will be. They have ensured the maximum degree of disturbance in the minds of the farming community at a time when they need every assistance and every bit of confidence we can give them to make the very difficult adjustment facing them. When we come to look back at this period in retrospect, when economic historians come to look at it, it may well be seen that this was one of the major blunders this Government made, and the damage done at this crucial moment to the farming industry may come to be seen as one of the most serious errors of their period in office.

The Government are under great pressure to reform taxation because of the way they have handled the whole tax area, arousing antagonism between different groups. The Taoiseach's remarks, half way through his speech, were stalling remarks designed to say how difficult it would be to reform taxation, that it is a long-term business, that you must not disturb the economy by doing things too rapidly, and there are even constitutional difficulties about reforming taxation. I do not think the prospects of reform under this Government are very good, judging by the Taoiseach's remarks this morning. If we do not have a significant and well thought out tax reform in the near future we will face very great difficulties in the government of the country and in maintaining social cohesion.

On top of all this we have had the social failures. I do not need to dwell on them. Nobody is under any illusion that the Government care anything about the social aspects of our affairs. We have a Minister for Health and Social Welfare who might as well not have the second part of his title. His interest in the social aspect of his portfolio is nil. He concentrates on the health side in the hopes of getting some cheap popularity, and I mean cheap in the sense of not costing too much because he has not been given too much money to play with. His concentration on that, at the expense of any interest or concern for the social welfare side, is one of the most unhappy features of this Government.

The other feature of the social side which concerns me—and I want to conclude my remarks; I do not want to detain the House—relates to housing. Fianna Fáil have always had an extraordinarily ambivalent attitude to housing. During the whole period of 16 years when they were in office they failed to cope with the housing problem. They left behind them a heritage of an appalling backlog of housing needs, assessed at about 75,000 at the time. We set about tackling that problem. They came back to office and they produced a green or a white paper—I forget which it was— talking about a housing target of between 27,000 and 21,000. We were building 26,000 houses per year. The only point in introducing the figure of 21,000 into the target was to indicate gently an intention to reduce the amount of housing at a time when the number of young people seeking housing is greater than ever before, probably since prefamine days.

They are now seeking power to control the building societies. There may be good reasons for that, but it is intensely disturbing to hear they have informed the building societies that they want this power in order to stop more than 25,000 houses being built per year and to prevent the financing of more than that number of houses by the building societies. The revelation that that is the Government's intention should not have been a surprise to us after the figure of 21,000 was mentioned. That any Government at this stage in our history, when we are still faced with that part of the housing backlog which we could not catch up on in four-and-a-quarter years and when we have this enormous number of young people seeking to get married and settle down and have families, should set about keeping down the number of houses being built argues a total lack of understanding of or concern for our social problems. I find it unbelievable. I do not understand how the Government, even politically, could act in such a short-sighted manner.

Few economists will quarrel with me if I say that it would be hard to recall any Government of any complexion in our history who have made such a monumental mess of the economy and of their own political prospects. If their share of the vote has been cut from over 50 per cent to below 40 per cent in the local elections and barely 35 per cent in the European elections before the effect of their mismanagement of the economy has begun to hit the man in the street, when inflation is still only 12½ per cent, when growth has yet to fall below 4 per cent, when employment is only starting to stagnate, what percentage of the vote do they expect the people to give them when the full fruits of their labours are displayed in six, 12 or 24 months' time? No wonder a frisson of panic has run through the ranks of the governing party as they contemplate where their leaders have led the country and as they gaze horrified at the gulf yawning under their feet.

If no more were at stake than the future of Fianna Fáil, the House would scarcely expect me to be too worried. Unfortunately, Fianna Fáil are in Government and what is bad for Fianna Fáil at this moment, like General Motors, is going to be bad for the country. Whatever the political bonus for us, we cannot look with equanimity at a situation of such gravity. We do have the ambition to succeed Fianna Fáil in office but we would like to succeed to something better than a shambles. To overcome the problems this country will face in the 1980s because of its demographic situation, the world energy crisis and the technological revolution will test our abilities as a Government to the full without having to undertake all this from a starting point of virtual economic ruin brought about by an insanely profligate Government.

I am sufficiently confident of our ability to replace Fianna Fáil in Government after the next election without the help of this kind of man-made disaster to hope that for our sake, as well as for the sake of the country, the Government will pull themselves together and face the reality of the squalid mess they have created and set about cleaning it up as rapidly as possible. I sincerely wish them success in this for the country's sake and also for ours as the political party who will have to take over from Fianna Fáil in two-and-a-half years' time. However, I have little confidence that this Government can recover anything substantial from the ruins they have created. Nothing in their demeanour suggests that they have even yet realised what they have hit themselves with, never mind starting to recover from the blow.

There has been no glimmer of leadership from the other side of the House in recent months, as Government backbenchers pointed out forcibly to their leaders the day before yesterday. Leadership is what the country needs; leadership based on telling our people the full unadorned truth about the huge challenges facing us; leadership that will scorn manifesto-type politics, raising expectations and dividing our people when unity of purpose is so vital; leadership that will transcend party divisions putting country before party whenever that short-term choice arises. Our people feel let down and betrayed by the events of the past two years. This disillusionment with one party must not be allowed to extend to our democratic system as a whole. We shall not allow that to happen.

I cannot comply with the request of the Taoiseach to supply a script because I have not gone one. I intended to speak from heading but even the headings are not now as appropriate as I thought they would be before the Taoiseach spoke, particularly after he answered a question of mine in relation to the section of his speech dealing with Northern Ireland and his reaffirming Fianna Fáil's commitment to their 1975 policy statement on Northern Ireland.

I should like to make some brief comments on the economic and social aspects of our national life and to say that it is rather difficult to do so because they have been commented upon over and over again. The situation has not changed to any great extent since they have been commented upon. One feels that one is indulging in repetition in stating what are still the facts of our economic and social life and the causes of the situation in which we find ourselves.

An adjournment debate normally gives the parties an opportunity to give their view of Government performance but we meet in a somewhat different situation this morning in opening the Adjournment Debate in that we meet very shortly after the electorate have given their view of Government performance over the last two years. There is no one, least of all the Fianna Fáil backbenchers, who has not a clear indication of the view of the electorate regarding the policies pursued by the Government.

It is difficult to pinpoint any one reason why we find ourselves in our present situation because a combination of reasons has brought about this unhappy state. The statement by the Taoiseach on our economy, on projected growth, on inflation and predictions, is a clear indication that the Taoiseach and his Cabinet are prepared to face anything except reality. The backbenchers of Fianna Fáil, particularly the 20-odd who are in what could be described as marginal seats, are determined to try and make the Taoiseach and his Cabinet face some of the realities which up to now they have consistently shied away from. However, it is only fair that I should say to the backbenchers of Fianna Fáil who feel their political future in some jeopardy as a result of Government policy that I believe we have reached what is known in aviation circles as the point of no return.

Over the last two years the Government have consistently carried on certain policies. It is not possible for the political salvation of worried Fianna Fáil backbenchers to reverse the results of those policies which were set out in the manifesto and which have been actively pursued without still further damage being inflicted on our economy, on our social services and on our people over the next two years. They will find small consolation when they come before the electorate no matter how much noise they make at their parliamentary party meetings. The noise is a little too late. Had they displayed a little more insight into the problems of the ordinary people instead of waiting until they were mobilised into action by fear of their own political future, there might have been some prospects of a change in policy that would have saved us from what I believe to be even more depressing and serious development in our economic and social life.

The fundamental cause of many of our difficulties can undoubtedly be traced to the 1977 Fianna Fáil manifesto. That—and I repeat it again—was one of the most irresponsible documents that was ever presented to the Irish electorate by any political party. It was made more irresponsible by the fact that it was not presented by inexperienced politicians but by people who could not have believed for one moment that it was in the best interests of the country. It was drawn up, presented and stood over by men who for a long number of years had held Ministerial posts here from the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance down to every Cabinet post. They knew what the realities were; they knew the consequences of that manifesto to this country and its people. It can only be explained by one of two reasons. First, it was a cynical exercise in the belief that they would not be elected, and second they wanted to be elected irrespective of the cost to the people. I believe it was the second. We have paid some price up to now but unfortunately the full price has yet to be paid.

I could talk in detail about the manifesto and its predictions regarding inflation, growth, taxation, industrial relations, local government administration and finance. In every one of these areas the damage that I have described can be pinpointed. We see the results we have today. We see the taxation system; growth has been cut in half and inflation has doubled. I could go on in detail about these things. But how beneficial would that be? One of the features of our national life is industrial relations. The Taoiseach states at page 9 of his speech:

Indeed, it is officially estimated that in the last six months alone, over 1,300,000 man-days were lost as a result of industrial disputes.

That is a fine record and it is a particularly fine record when one realises that the bulk of those man-days lost were lost as a result of the Post Office workers' dispute. The Government in their manifesto singled out our communications sector as the area in which they would bring in proper industrial relations. Two years later the Taoiseach, the leader of the party that published that manifesto and committed themselves to improving industrial relations, particularly in the communications sector, tells us in this House that in the first six months of 1979 1,300,000 man-days were lost and that 85 per cent of those were in the very area where they had publicly committed themselves to improving industrial relations. I could go right through the manifesto and pinpoint area after area. But let us look at the Post Office strike. What happened in the Post Office strike? The Minister went to ground; he refused to meet the Post Officer Workers' Union who were representative of his employees. Then after nearly 19 weeks a settlement was arrived at that would have settled the strike at least three months earlier.

(Dublin South-Central): That is not true.

What is the price to this country of this industrial dispute? We do not know. It is not possible yet to calculate the damage that has been done. As far as our tourist industry is concerned there are some indications of the damage that has been done. So far as commerce and business and, most important of all, foreign investment are concerned, our reputation is zero. What settled the Post Office workers' strike? I believe I know what settled it.

Irrespective of all the other considerations—the damage that was being inflicted day after day on our industry, our reputation, the suffering that was being endured by the Post Office Workers' Union members and their families were not a consideration as far as this Government were concerned—this strike was settled, as I told the Taoiseach on a television programme on the night of the EEC election results, because Ireland was taking up the Presidency of the EEC. I am glad it was settled. It would have been disasterous had the Government been so foolish as to continue it into that period because—by this time the penny had dropped—it would not have been possible for us to function effectively in that role with a communications strike going on.

So far as the other industrial disputes which make up the rest of the man-hours lost are concerned, what has been the attitude of the Minister who glories in the title Minister for Labour? He has been non-existent.

He woke up yesterday.

Yes. So did Rip van Winkle. But it took him a long time.

He did it in two years.

If we wanted a bear who goes into hibernation for two-year periods to occupy the position of Minister for Labour we could all be extremely satisfied with the performance. One could contrast the performance of the Minister for Labour now with his performance as spokesman for Labour when Fianna Fáil were in Opposition. Then he had a solution not alone for every current problem but for every problem he could anticipate. But look at the price that this country has paid for his present incompetence. It is a bit much to take.

I could go right through every Minister from the Taoiseach down and be able to legitimately and justifiably criticise their performance over the last two years. We might not be able to do it as effectively or as savagely as was done at the Fianna Fáil Party meeting two days ago, but we could justifiably do it and without having to do too much research because the incidents of incompetence are so numerous that the only difficulty would be in deciding which ones to leave out in order to illustrate the point.

The Taoiseach, on the same programme when he, Dr. FitzGerald, and myself appeared after the results of the EEC elections, said in reply to Mr. Brian Farrell that he was contemplating reshuffling his Cabinet. That was an open public admission: it had even registered with the Taoiseach that his Cabinet, or at least some members of his Cabinet, were incompetent and unfit to hold the offices they then and now currently hold. The reason he gave as to why he was not acting on his opinion that he had incompetent Ministers running our national affairs was that as we were assuming the Presidency of the EEC it was necessary to have people who were familiar with certain departmental affairs. That is the logic of the Taoiseach's reasoning, that Minister of this present Cabinet, who had proved to be totally incompetent at home, incompetent in the opinion of their own Prime Minister, when they had no responsibility in Europe, no distractions in Europe and had not to assume added responsibilities at European level, and when they could give their full attention to our national and departmental affairs for which they have responsibility, were to be inflicted upon us for a further six months, and not only inflicted upon us with their current degree of incompetence, but aggravated by the fact that they would have to give at least some attention at European level and assume greater responsibilities at that level, which meant less attention to our national affairs. The logic of the Taoiseach's reluctance to act on the very well-formed opinion that he has incompetent people within his Cabinet escapes me.

I do not know how the Taoiseach can justify stating publicly that he is now about to share the degree of incompetence of some of these Ministers with the rest of our member states in Europe. It is very difficult to accept, but that is the situation.

I do not wish to reiterate what has been said on the economic and social matters, but there are two points on which I should like to comment. One of them I raised yesterday, by way of a Private Notice Question and there were certain aspects of it with which, procedurally, at that time, I was not allowed to deal. Dr. FitzGerald dealt with some of these this morning, but I should like to deal with a little of the background to the question of the position of our forces serving with UNIFIL in the Lebanon. I want to make two things clear and I want them on the record of the House.

First of all, I am deeply conscious that raising this issue will, naturally, cause some considerable anxiety to the relatives, families and friends of our soldiers serving in the Lebanon and it was with considerable reluctance and after a great deal of thought that I tabled that question yesterday. I also tabled it after I had tried another channel, when I had requested a meeting with the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Michael O'Kennedy, and with the Minister for Defence, Deputy Robert Molloy. I consulted with my colleagues and asked Deputy Joe Bermingham, chairman of our parliamentary party, to accompany me to that meeting. What transpired at that meeting indicated to me that my responsibility could only lead to tabling a question and having this matter discussed publicly.

The impression that I formed, after this joint meeting with the two Minister directly responsible, was that they were totally out of touch with the present situation facing our troops in the Lebanon and that the absence of political and diplomatic initiatives or actions was being paid for by our soldiers serving there. Fortunately—and I say fortunately; I could almost say miraculously—that payment by our troops has not been as it could be, although it has led to six of them being injured under fire some months back. The difficulties facing our soldiers there are clearly not appreciated by the two Ministers directly responsible for their welfare. That is why I raised the issue in the Dáil yesterday, despite the concern and anxiety that might, and obviously will, come to the families and relatives of those people. By raising it, we may be able to get some effective action at political and diplomatic levels, both nationally and internationally—more important internationally—which might have a beneficial effect, in the interests of our soldiers in the Lebanon.

I am not military minded, never having had much contact with the military and never having had any aspirations to be a military man—in fact, as far as my personal opinion is concerned, entirely to the contrary—but I came away from the Lebanon, after spending some time with our troops there, with a sense of immense pride in our Irish soldiers of all ranks serving there. The state of morale under the very trying, difficult and dangerous circumstances was very high. Their sense of dedication, their courage, and, particularly, their humanity and their relationship with the local Arab population in the area in which they are operating, to me was extremely impressive. One could justifiably have a sense of pride in them in that situation.

I shall illustrate some of the difficulties under which they are serving and which are made, not by military considerations but directly as the result of political and diplomatic failure. I quote from page 14, paragraph 42, of the Report of the Secretary General on the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, for the period from 13 January to 8 June 1979.

Although, as I have explained, I have no alternative but to make this recommendation . . ..

He is speaking about the renewal of the mandate for the troops serving in the Lebanon——

I must also express my view that UNIFIL cannot continue to function without certain essential conditions being fulfilled.

He goes on to describe, briefly, those conditions, which I shall quote and then tell you what the facts are in relation to these conditions.

An adequate security zone around the UNIFIL headquarters in Naqoura is perhaps the most immediate of these.

That, in the view of the Secretary General of the United Nations is the most immediate requirement for a successful fulfilling of the mandate.

Not only is there not an adequate security zone around UNIFIL headquarters but the situation is totally otherwise. I drove with Irish Army officers to the headquarters and all around it operating freely in that area are the so-called de facto forces of Major Haddad. You pass by jeeps in which there are four of his men armed to the teeth. The United Nations had undertaken to supervise an examination for school children equivalent to our matriculation involving approximately 300 children because, due to circumstances prevailing, these children had not an opportunity to sit for that examination. The United Nations organised and naturally provided the security for it. On the day of the examination—the hall on which the examination was held is about 100 yards from UNIFIL headquarters— Major Haddad arrived with his own forces and announced that he was providing security for the children; he was guaranteeing their safety and he addressed them.

Immediately outside the headquarters referred to by the Secretary General there is a de facto check point at which Irish soldiers and other national contingents serving with the UN must subject themselves to search and harassment before they can have free passage to where our other troops are serving in what could be described as the front line. In my own journey from the headquarters up to the company in the field at Tibnin I had to pass through in the company of Irish troops, who can only go in convoy because otherwise they lose vehicles to the de facto forces, two de facto check points, one PLO checkpoint and three UN checkpoints manned by different nationalities. That indicates how the first condition of the Secretary General conditions for a successful mandate is being fulfilled.

There is a second—cessation of the harassment of the civilian population and of UNIFIL by the de facto forces. How has that turned out since the Secretary General described it as a prerequisite for the fulfillment of the mandate? They ceased harassment as regards firing. They were firing to harass and intimidate; they are now firing for effect—let there be no mistake about that. I was dismayed when I heard the Minister responsible for our diplomatic relations stating here yesterday that the firing was still for harassment purposes. The de facto forces are continually firing on our troops without warning. They are firing with great accuracy and in my opinion firing if and when they are told to do so by the Israeli authorities. We are not dealing with a bunch of wild men but a force acting, in my opinion, on the direct instructions of a state with which we have formal diplomatic relations. That, apparently, escaped the Minister's notice.

Major Haddad's forces are fully equipped and supplied and in fact paid by the Israeli authorities and no action or negotiations take place between UN negotiators—that is the position in which they are placed; they must negotiate with this gentleman—without a senior Israeli officer being present. It is clearly established now that he has the final word.

We have a number of factions in the Lebanon—the PLO, the de facto forces, the UN, the Lebanese Army and the Syrians. I have a map of the situation which I can make available to any Members of the House who wants it. One can see where the PLO are situated and the de facto forces, who are operating a buffer zone between Israel and the Lebanon. Within that zone there are five observations posts manned by Irish troops on behalf of the UN. Major Haddad will allow them to be supplied by their comrades on two days a week only and if he feels like it, or if there is any incident which displeases him, he refuses permission for Irish UN troops to bring supplies to their comrades manning observation posts within the de facto territory. That is a factual statement.

Is that situation acceptable to the UN? Is it acceptable to this Government for our troops serving on a peace-keeping mission in the Lebanon? Peace-keeping missions can be very difficult and on occasion very dangerous. I did not find any reluctance on the part of our troops to fulfil their commitment to the UN and to this country, but I found a full realisation among them that they were military personnel and because of the gross failure of the political and diplomatic aspects of the peace-keeping mission their task was becoming increasingly more difficult and more dangerous, and in fact fast approaching the situation where they would entirely despair of being able to fulfil the mandate they are trying to fulfil.

Apart from Major Haddad, who is being used by the Israelis in my opinion to engage in activities in which they could not directly engage because of world opinion, they also on occasion find it necessary or desirable, irrespective of world opinion, to make incursions into the area controlled by the UN. These incursions are taking place and in the course of them thousands have been satchel bombed and Irish troops have been fired on by Israeli soldiers. I do not find that acceptable from a country with which we have formal diplomatic relations. I cannot understand how the Minister or the Government apparently find it acceptable.

There is another aspect which was mentioned by Deputy FitzGerald which is worthy of consideration. Most of the military requirements of Israel are supplied by the United States of America. The shells and guns originate in the USA. These are landing in positions occupied by our soldiers in Southern Lebanon. The USA must have some degree of responsibility for the safety of our troops. Deputy FitzGerald gave his opinion as to what might be done.

If we have troops serving with the UN—and there are a number of peace-keeping missions on which they have served with honour and distinction—they are entitled to feel when they are out there that they are not entirely cut off and of little interest to people here, particularly politicians. It is very difficult for financial reasons for political parties who are not in Government to fulfil their obligation towards troops serving on behalf of the country.

Due to circumstances I was in that area and visited the troops. I would suggest two things to the Government. Firstly, as far as the United Nations are concerned, it is established practice in other parliamentary democracies in the western world that all-party delegations attend the UN as observers. In that way they are in a position to have direct personal contact with people in the UN. They are in a position to follow debates, discussions and attitudes, which are also important, towards different problems. The Government should seriously consider that. Secondly, and this could be done immediately, where we have troops serving abroad on behalf of this country, not on behalf of Fianna Fáil—I wish to make that point clear—facilities should be made available.

Is there some suggestion that they are serving on behalf of one party? That is an outrageous suggestion. Has anyone ever claimed that they are serving on behalf of Fianna Fáil?

I did not suggest that they did.

What is the point in saying it then?

I was emphasising that they were not.

Did anyone ever suggest they were?

The Minister might let the Deputy finish.

The Minister is very touchy about Fianna Fáil and very insensitive to the safety of our troops.

I will deal with that when replying.

The Minister has a wonderful sense of priorities on this whole question.

It is the Army I am concerned about.

The Minister is very concerned about Fianna Fáil. A little more concern where it should be would be beneficial.

My concern is for the Army and this will be demonstrated——

Not very effectively. It would be in the interest of everyone concerned, not least of all the troops, if all-party deputations were sent to visit the troops and see the situation in which they are serving. It would be extremely good for the morale of the troops and would undoubtedly be very beneficial to our assessment of the circumstances under which they are serving in the various operations. I appeal to the Minister to bring that suggestion to the Government as a serious one.

Hear, hear.

As the Taoiseach was speaking I was reading his comments on Northern Ireland. I was struck, with little exception, by the extraordinary similarity between the approach advocated by the Taoiseach and the approach of the Labour Party over a long number of years. It is remarkably similar. The Taoiseach said:

I mention these aspects to illustrate the extent of the common ground which exists between us and the need which exists for a declaration by the British Government of the wish to encourage the Irish people to come together, in reconciliation, under agreed structures, for the good of all the people of both islands.

That is a cosmetic operation.

One was heartened to see that the Taoiseach, on behalf of Fianna Fáil, had come around to a position, with the exception of that cosmetic operation, which the Labour Party have consistently held whether or not it was electorally popular to do so. We firmly believed, and continue to believe, that it is not a question of territorial unification. It is a question of the unification of the Irish people. As I have past experience of the Taoiseach, I ask a question at the end of his speech: was this not a considerable departure from the 1975 declaration by Fianna Fáil? I asked one of my colleagues to go up to my office and get the Fianna Fáil declaration of 1975. I deliberately asked the question because I am tired and weary of Fianna Fáil's two-faced, hypocritical and extremely dangerous hopping from one foot to the other in relation to Northern Ireland.

The Taoiseach, after making that speech, said there was no departure whatsoever from this document which called for encouraging the unity of Ireland by agreement, an independent and harmonious relationship between the two islands and, to this end, a declaration of Britain's commitment to implement an ordered withdrawal from her involvement in the six counties of Northern Ireland. That was made when Fianna Fáil were in Opposition.

I do not believe that the Taoiseach believes that. I believe he did that under extreme political pressure. In my view he had two alternatives: that he should go as leader or support the declaration of March 1975. The Minister for Foreign Affairs, who is present, was the launching pad for this approach by Fianna Fáil in 1975. He must be extremely uncomfortable in the position he now holds. I do not hear of any demands for declarations by the Taoiseach or the Minister for Foreign Affairs when they attend at Downing Street. I do not see any communiqués being issued, unilaterally or jointly, of their demand for British withdrawal from involvement in the Six Counties during the last two years.

There is a complete contradiction between the speech made by the Taoiseach this morning in his formal address and what he said in reply to a question, his "continued commitment" to this document. I should like to remind the House that what the Taoiseach outlined this morning is finely in comformity with what I believe the SDLP policy to be in relation to Northern Ireland at present. In 1975 when the document I referred to was published by Fianna Fáil, Mr. John Hume of the SDLP went on RTE and described it as a Provo document, Provo policy. How can any reasonable, rational and sane man reconcile the words expressed by the Taoiseach in his formal address with what was dragged out of him as a result of a question at the conclusion of his address when he told us of his "continued commitment" to the 1975 attitude and declaration by Fianna Fáil. We have two things coming into play, the Taoiseach's true view on Northern Ireland with which I do not necessarily greatly disagree, and the continued, even with his 20-seat majority, verbal support for the 1975 position on Northern Ireland. The Taoiseach this morning for his political survival and against his own true commitment and feeling had to subscribe to something which he does not believe in.

In political life it is necessary at times to make certain compromises, to back off somewhat on certain aspects of policy on things one might believe in, but there are certain fundamental matters that no man, irrespective of the position he holds, has a right to back off from, to compromise on or to put his own political survival or advantage in front of. One of those things, is, undoubtedly, the lives of our fellow Irish men and women, irrespective of their political or religious beliefs. As a result of the reply to the question this morning the Taoiseach, in my view, stands guilty of that before the country. Let him either control his wild men or do the honourable thing, stand up publicly and consistently for what he believes in. He should do one or the other.

I have mentioned economic and social questions but I did not do so in detail because that would be repetitious in view of the fact that the same policies are being pursued. It is sad for a Member of the House, during an Adjournment Debate, to have to say that the economic policies——

I regret having to interrupt the Deputy, but as I notice the Leader of Fine Gael is leaving the Chamber I should like to state that I had hoped he would be present for my contribution because I have some pertinent things to say to him.

He may have a commitment, just as the Taoiseach had. We accepted the Taoiseach's explanation.

I do not like making comments in a Member's absence.

The Chair does not have any responsibility over who should or should not be in the House.

The Minister has full permission to talk about me in my absence.

I would prefer to do it in the Deputy's presence.

The prospects for the country are not bright. The policies which the Government have pursued consistently are in full train and cannot be reversed overnight. They cannot be reversed in time to save us from further economic and social difficulties. The message which the Fianna Fáil backbenchers have been trying to convey to the Taoiseach and the Cabinet for the last while is a futile one. Fianna Fáil have set the course, have taken certain actions which are not possible to reverse immediately and as yet, bad and all as that is, the Irish people have not paid the full price which they will have to pay for the policies pursued by the Government. That is a sad thing to have to say on the Adjournment Debate, but it is the truth.

I hope the House will understand that my contribution will, of necessity, be rather brief and that I will not be dealing with matters which are appropriate to our programme during our Presidency of the EEC for two good reasons. Firstly, there is the question of a time limit but, secondly, there is the more cogent reason that next week I will be reporting to the new Parliament in Strasbourg on that programme. I am sure the House will understand that it would be somewhat inappropriate, having regard to the role and authority of the newly elected Parliament, to outline in advance in public to any other forum the Presidency programme for that period. I should like to thank the Leader of the Fine Gael Party for the good wishes he accorded to me and the Government in fulfilling this important role over the next six months.

One of the most important elements that will arise will be the establishing of a proper understanding between the Council and the Parliament, a recognition on the part of the Council of Ministers of the role, authority and powers of the Parliament, and, equally, I hope, a trust between the Council and Parliament that will enable both of us to fulfil our common purpose as institutions of the EEC. That will enable us to continue on the development of much needed policies in the areas affecting the peoples of Europe.

One element of crucial critical policy which was dealt with by the Taoiseach this morning is the element of energy. I do not know if Deputy FitzGerald made any reference to this all-consuming problem which faces us in the EEC and the world at present. Most of us recognise that the arguments which we would make on economic and social policy now, are influenced to a considerable extent by the developments which have occurred over the last six months in relation to energy restrictions and scarcity of oil. These developments must be faced by the world community as major and critical developments. That reality has changed all the projections that were made 12 months ago. In the light of that reality I regret the departure of Deputy FitzGerald. In an interview given by Dr. FitzGerald in the July edition of Magill Magazine, he was asked some pertinent questions about energy. Dr. FitzGerald was asked:

What would he do about the energy problem?

Well, if shortage is to become a permanent feature, all countries are going to have to look at existing policies, but as of now we don't know if we are going to face continuing shortages.

That is an extraordinary statement from the leader of a party that purports to have economic policies, when the rest of the world recognises that we have known for months that we will face continuing shortages. It is extraordinary that Dr. FitzGerald who is presented as being a man aware of international realities can make a statement of that nature. The interview went on:

Couldn't we be doing a little more than merely looking at existing policies? Why can't there be conservation programmes now and better public transport policies?

He said:

There are a great deal of uncertainties right now in the area of energy which make the shaping of final and complete energy policies very difficult.

The next question was as follows:

Is he in favour of going ahead with the nuclear reactor?

It will be well over a decade before we have to decide on this and by then new technology may present us with alternative energy sources which would make the building of a nuclear reactor unnecessary. For instance, developments in wave energy could have special significance for Ireland.

Deputy FitzGerald will be aware that at the European Council in June in view of the shortages, all the members committed themselves to reducing energy consumption, to a level which would guarantee that between now and 1985 we would tie ourselves to the 1978 consumption level. This commitment was further entered into and developed at the Tokyo Summit. How can the leader of a party, who presents himself as being credible, suggest that we do not know if there will be continuing shortages or not? That is a serious blunder in the thinking of the Leader of the Fine Gael Party in the light of the fact that energy policy is now recognised to be the essential foundation on which every other economic policy is to be built. We cannot talk in terms of growth, of controlling inflation or in terms of social services without recognising the reality that Deputy FitzGerald does not know is there.

Is the Minister saying that we are definitely going nuclear?

I like to face realities which, in this instance, Deputy FitzGerald is unable to do.

Apart from attacking Deputy FitzGerald the Minister has given no——

Deputy O'Keeffe should not interrupt the Minister at this stage.

It emerged quite clearly from the European Council that it will be at least two decades before alternative sources of energy will become available as a substitute for oil, to the developed and developing world. That is the accepted reality. Because of that the technological developments that will have to be launched in the meantime will involve billions of £s by way of co-operative endeavour between the developed countries, the European Community, Japan and the US and so on, to ensure that in 15 to 20 years from now we will have developed these technologies to ensure that they will supply what will then be the gap caused by the diminishing resources of oil. Deputy FitzGerald does not see it that way. To avoid what is obviously a sensitive question in relation to nuclear energy Deputy FitzGerald says that we will not have to look at that for another ten years and that by then we will have wind and wave energy and so on. Before those new technologies are developed so as to give us what we will need as a result of the reduction in oil supplies, we will have to develop the other energy sources, coal, gas, hydro-carbon oil and nuclear, which the European Council recognise must be developed. The obligation on the world to maintain employment, social services and so on has to be seen in that context.

The reality is that in the light of the shortages, what must be done in the medium term until these new technologies are available, is to ensure that the programmes for nuclear energy and other types of energy are developed to supply the needs, and to guarantee safety and security. The world community are at the moment spending a lot of time and resources to ensure that there will be the least possible danger to human life, human habitation or to the environment. There are some unpleasant facts that one must face from time to time, but it is more appropriate for the leader of a party to face unpleasant facts than to say as did Deputy FitzGerald that there is no evidence of a continuing shortage. That is a scathing indictment of a party who will present economic policies without having any realisation of the energy position, which Deputy FitzGerald refuses to recognise.

I want to turn to some other realities. First, may I ask how much time I have left?

The speaker has 38 minutes and there are approximately 20 minutes left.

There have been some references in the course of the discussion so far this morning to recent meetings which have taken place between the Government, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the Foreign Secretary and to recent statements issued as a consequence of those meetings. I want to quote from some records to put the position exactly in its context, to draw some conclusions and make some suggestions as a consequence of what the record says.

As the House will now know, it is established practice that meetings take place over a period between the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the Minister for Foreign Affairs. On occasions the Minister for Justice has joined in these discussions on matters appropriate to security. One such meeting took place, rather more constrained in view of time factors, very recently on 27 June. Unfortunately, in view of the fact that I was detained in Brussels on all-night negotiations, the meeting which was due to start at 11.30 a.m. did not commence until 1.30 p.m. It terminated at 4. o'clock. The first hour and a quarter was taken up with informal discussions over lunch, so that the formal meeting, as such, took little over one hour. After that meeting an agreed joint communique was issued and apart from the introduction that we met this is what it said:

The Ministers discussed a wide range of topics including the political situation in Northern Ireland, security co-operation and North/South economic co-operation. The meeting was the first between the new Secretary of State and members of the Irish Government.

The Ministers reaffirmed their commitment to co-operative action by the Irish and British security forces against terrorism and pledged the support of their Governments to measures which would lead to a restoration of peace and political stability.

It is clear from that agreed communique that we did discuss these three elements, political economic and security, each in its proper context. It is regrettable that the Secretary of State, on returning to the North, disclosed some matters that were suggested by him, one in particular for the first time suggested at that meeting, of which there was no advance notice to us that it would be suggested. Indeed, it was suggested in a way that no reply was sought on that occasion from the Minister concerned, namely, the Minister for Justice, the suggestion being that RUC officers might be allowed to carry on investigations down here. Nothing that the Minister for Justice said in reply would in any way indicate that the Government would immediately respond to such suggestion, because no reply was being sought.

Did he undertake to consider it?

The matter was put on that basis, no reply was sought and the Minister for Justice indicated that if the reply were negative, then it would not be seen as any evidence of a lack of commitment on our part to deal with the common purpose of security.

Is it under consideration?

It is not under consideration. I want to make it quite clear that the matter was put on the basis I have suggested, exactly as I have said it. But it is regrettable that details of that nature were mentioned by the Secretary of State on his return at his Press Conference. It is regrettable also in view of the fact that, when the Secretary of State was reporting to the House of Commons recently on a number of political issues—this was in the context of the extension of direct rule and of the emergency provisions—he said, amongst other things, and here I am quoting from Hansard, from what may be an unapproved copy of 2 July 1979, when he was talking in the security context:

First, we shall give special attention to the areas along the border with the Republic—on both north and south sides of that border. I went to Dublin last week to discuss with the Minister for Foreign Affairs and his colleague, the Minister for Justice, the activities of the Provisional IRA throughout the whole island.

I want to say that the Secretary of State came to Dublin to discuss much more than the activities of the Provisional IRA throughout the whole island. He came to discuss the matters that are indicated in that communiqué. In reporting to Westminster it would be helpful to put such meetings in their proper context, because it has always been recognised that it is important that we develop an understanding and a commitment in areas where there is an obvious need to make progress and clearly that exists in the political, economic and security areas. But presentations of that nature, at this early stage in relations between two Governments, cannot be helpful in establishing the basis of co-operation we would want to establish between us.

At this point I think I should refer to an interview which the Secretary of State gave on an ITN programme on Monday evening, when asked in relation to the terrorism problem and control of terrorists within the North of Ireland and apparently along the Border. I shall quote from the reply he gave:

One of the difficulties, of course, is that a lot of the work that is done in training, organising, planning and so forth is not done in a country over which we have any jurisdiction.

The implications of a remark of that nature ignore the realities of what may be done in area over which the Secretary of State does have jurisdiction. While it is a matter within the jurisdiction of the British Government, we cannot fail to notice that both the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State, when the new Government took office, said that they would need time to read into the position in relation to the North of Ireland, that they were inexperienced in that area. It is rather significant that a matter of fundamental importance, of life and death—as all of us here recognise —within the jurisdiction of any country is not something on which the persons responsible are fully briefed and informed even before taking up office. If it is within the jurisdiction, then obviously it is a matter of vital importance.

I thought it necessary to make those remarks in the light of statements made since the first meetings took place recently. It is important that we recognise that there are all of these elements—the political need, which we discussed; the economic need, which we discussed, and the security need, which we discussed. All of these elements are inter-related, have been, and will be, and to isolate any one of them, under whatever pressure one may be obliged to answer questions, under whatever pressure from whatever source in the North of Ireland, is not a reality or helpful. I want to say one thing quite clearly—and the Taoiseach touched on this in his speech this morning—if the Border is always being presented as a problem, then its creation is not something for which this jurisdiction is responsible. It does pose problems in so many ways. It demonstrates lack of economic development on both sides of the Border. I am glad to say both Governments are co-operating on economic projects, and I am glad to say also that the Foreign Secretary renewed the commitment of the British Government to work with us, in the European Economic Community, for support for these very important projects in areas where there is critical unemployment on both sides and particularly in certain towns on the northern side. That has been there for 50 years. I am glad to say our Community partners have renewed their commitment to work with us on this. I would hope that, before the end of our period of the Presidency, we will see from the non-quota section of the Regional Fund special funds being applied to cross-Border projects.

Therefore, the areas in which we can and must co-operate are of vital importance but, to achieve that, we shall have to ensure that co-operation is on the basis of full understanding of the realities, and also clear and unambiguous statements of all issues discussed, to the extent that issues can be disclosed in public. There is a strong case particularly—which I said in a recent BBC interview—for not disclosing in public details of security discussions that take place between the people concerned. I want to reiterate particularly that our gardaí, who through their chief superintendents and the Garda Commissioner, are in regular contact with their counterparts, whether at Chief Constable level or otherwise in the North, are really determined, as a matter of fundamental policy here, to protect the life and limbs of citizens on both sides of the Border. As the Taoiseach said this morning, we do not need any pressing to do what we are obliged to do as part of an overall policy.

There has not been one single application from Northern Ireland to this jurisdiction for the application of the extra-territorial machinery under the Criminal Law Jurisdiction Act. There has been one case where a person was tried and convicted here on Garda evidence under the Criminal Law Jurisdiction Act for an offence committed within Northern Ireland, because it is an offence within this State to conspire to cause an explosion in Northern Ireland. The conviction was on Garda evidence only.

Another matter which has caused some confusion and misrepresentation in relation to the Government's position in this area generally, is the European Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism. There has never been any criticism of this Government because we did not sign that convention. Deputy G. FitzGerald gave reasons why some countries who had signed had grave reservations and felt that this matter had been dealt with too quickly by the appropriate Departments of Justice, without proper consultation with the political elements in their Governments.

I want to put it on the record that we are committed to giving to every citizen in every part of Ireland the most fundamental right of all—the right to life and limb. At the time of the signing of the convention, Denmark and Sweden entered reservations against the application of article 13 on the basis that they would not be obliged to extradite for a political offence, which is precisely the same position this Government held. Italy and Norway entered reservations on the same basis on the signing of the agreement; France entered a reservation on the basis that they would not ratify the agreement until the new agreement which was being drawn up by the Nine was signed and ratified. The Federal Republic of Germany also had technical reservations. The position is that five, if not six, of our closest partners, three within the EEC, Sweden and Norway—which cannot be regarded as States which are not concerned with fundamental rights—entered reservations on the same principle which determined our decision not to sign the convention. It is totally wrong and unfair to imply that our failure to sign or ratify that convention is evidence of any lack of commitment on our part.

What we have done is to deliberately lead the Nine Foreign Ministers and Ministers for Justice to ensure that within the Nine there can now be an application of that convention, but on the basis of international law either to try or to extradite. All those countries in the EEC which signed with reservations, will be able to sign the new convention. It is important to recognise that our commitment is in line with those of our partners and in no way, as has been suggested in the North and by those who would use this for propaganda purposes, are we out of line with the spirit and commitment of our partners.

I did not say yesterday that the position in the Lebanon is satisfactory. I could not say it and I did not say it. I did say that the representations we made— directly by me in February to Foreign Minister Dayan and in April by the Taoiseach to Prime Minister Begin— were successful, and I repeat that. We succeeded in ensuring that the level of attack on the areas where our troops were operating stopped and it has not reached that pitch since. I did not imply as has been suggested, that everything is all right in the Lebanon and that we are satisfied the Israelis are not causing very serious problems by arming and supporting the Haddad forces in the Lebanon. Neither do I imply that anyone in this House, from any side, can give a guarantee that at some point some risk would not arise, may be even loss of limb or life, to our troops or to any other troops.

The kind of thing Deputy Cluskey said this morning about his assessment of the situation in the Lebanon is totally out of line with the assessments we got from our military people, who have the professional competence to make such assessments, and from the United Nations. Deputy Cluskey said they were now firing to kill. That is not so on the evidence supplied to us by our military and by the United Nations. If they were firing the number of rounds the Deputy said—over 1,500—they would be very bad shots.

Our soldiers and the United Nations are best equipped to make the assessment of what is harassment or firing to effect. If people like Deputy Cluskey, who are understandably very worried about the situation, go out to these countries and consider their assessment to be more authorative and binding than the professional advice available to us, then we are in a very serious situation. I am not interested in making a political football of this issue because I think the football has already been kicked into the middle of the field but the lives of our soldiers and the mandate they have been given is much more important than any football.

There are a few matters in the Minister's speech to which I would like to refer. I comment on an interview with the leader of my party, Deputy FitzGerald, in Magill magazine. I am not here to defend in detail Deputy FitzGerald's actions; he is well able to stand up for himself. What arises out of the Minister's comments is the fact that we do not have a clear and unambiguous response from the Minister to the very questions which he said were directed to Deputy FitzGerald on the occasion in question. Deputy FitzGerald gave his views clearly and unambiguously, but we are not quite sure what the Government's policy is. Are we committed to developing a nuclear reactor? Arising out of the comments of the Taoiseach recently, are we committed to developing two of them? Is there any point in holding a public inquiry if this commitment has been made? These are the questions which spring to my mind and which, in view of the very legitimate concern felt by many people on the issue, call for a clear and unambiguous response from the Government. This response has not been forthcoming and we are still as much in the dark as we were in the past.

The Minister referred to the situation in Northern Ireland. In regard to Northern Ireland, words can be dynamite. Therefore, in that situation I am very careful in what I say about that very serious national issue. I am glad that the Minister has clarified the position arising out of the discussions between Secretary of State Atkins and the Minister for Justice. It is right and proper that that be put on the record. My immediate reaction to the media publicity was concern at the fact that serious consideration, or any consideration, would be given to a proposal to have members of the RUC assisting in interrogations in this State. I do not want to say too much on the matter. From what I have read of the happenings in Castlereagh and elsewhere in the North, we can well do without that assistance here. That should have been made very clear to Secretary of State Atkins when the suggestion was made.

It is unfortunate that time did not permit the Minister to deal more fully with the position in the Lebanon, which is very serious as far as this country is concerned. We have a large contingent of Irish troops there. Let me make it clear that on this side of the House we are proud of the noble record of the Irish Army in peace-keeping operations. At the same time, we are very conscious of the dangers to which they can be subjected. Everything must be done to minimise any risks which they face in the course of these peace-keeping operations. I appreciate that the political situation in the Lebanon is complex and delicate in many ways, with warring factions, war lords and petty princes and with a large part of the population armed to the teeth. In no way do I underestimate the task facing the Irish troops or the entire UNIFIL forces there.

However, certain facts are quite clear. The UNIFIL was set up by the UN Security Council on 19 March 1978 and on that date the council called on Israel to withdraw their forces from southern Lebanon. The UNIFIL force was then established and given a mandate of "confirming the withdrawal of Israeli forces, restoring international peace and security and assisting the Government of Lebanon in ensuring the return of its effective authority in the area". One could say that one major purpose of the UN forces there was to provide buffer-zone protection for the Israeli border against infiltration by the PLO and other guerillas. What has happened? There has been withdrawal by Israel but in effect a client army has been left behind. The de facto forces of Major Haddad can hardly be considered in any other context. They are supplied and equipped largely by Israel.

The Minister himself said, in reply to a Private Notice Question yesterday, that the Israeli authorities have a very great influence over the de facto forces. That may be underestimating the situation, but in that context how do we in Ireland feel about what is going on in the Lebanon at present? There is undoubtedly harassment by Haddad's de facto forces. Whether this amounts to fighting for effect or for harassment is a moot point. If guns are being fired and bombs are going off somebody is going to be hurt sometime, particularly at the level at which it is now happening in that area.

There is evidence of raids by Israeli commandos and there is a well-documented account of a bombardment some time ago from Israeli guns. Furthermore, we have had the recent addition to the whole scene of what can only be described as a slanderous propaganda war started by Israel against the UN forces and in particular against the Irish troops. How should we regard all this? It can be regarded only as unfriendly acts by a State with which we have trade contacts and diplomatic relations. Undoubtedly they are increasing seriously the risks to which our troops in the Lebanon are subject. Is it right and proper that we should accept these additional risks which are caused by the actions of the Israelis? Is the response of the Government here sufficient? Must we not be taking further and better steps to bring it home to the Israelis in stronger terms that this type of activity will not be tolerated?

There are many ways of doing it. Direct contact has been made with Minister Dayan and Prime Minister Begin. There was the reference at the UN Security Council. Can we bring more pressure? Can we arouse more of a conscience, if nothing else, on the part of the Israelis and a realisation on their part of the possible consequences of their existing course of action? There is a considerable duty on the Government to do this, whether by way of direct representation to the Israelis, by pressure through the US—which is a major partner in the situation because of their role as the biggest arms supplier to the Israelis—or through the UN Security Council or any other body of the UN. There is a duty on the Government to protest and to continue protesting stridently in the strongest possible manner to bring home to the Israelis that we do not accept this type of activity on their part, that we consider such activity to be unfriendly acts, that a continuance of such activity can only be construed by us as being hostile to us as a nation and that we will not tolerate it.

We also have a duty to counter propaganda which has been dissiminated in regard to our troops in the area. A planned campaign is necessary on our part to ensure that it is fully brought home to the Israelis that we do not accept this approach on their part and will not tolerate it in the future. Different suggestions have been made as to how that should be done. I would not approach this entirely on a non-party basis, but as an Irishman proud of the troops there I pledge my support and that of my party to any action which the Government may take to right this situation.

I refer now to the position of the Vietnamese boat people, to which the Minister did not refer in his speech. What is happening in Vietnam can only be compared to what happened in Hitlerite Germany in the thirties and forties. The Government of Vietnam have declared war on an ethnic group within that country which has resulted in death and hardship unknown to human kind for a long time. Hundreds of thousands of people are affected by it and it would be a shame if the western world stood by and let the situation continue. I accept that this matter has been discussed at many levels but I do not accept that there has been a sufficient response by the western world to this awful human tragedy.

I am aware also that this Government have a role to play in the situation and pursuant to that role have committed this country to accepting 100 Vietnamese. I consider this figure derisory in the context of the huge numbers of people involved. Despite our economic circumstances we can do considerably better and I call upon the Government to increase considerably this figure and to show that this country, despite limited resources, is responding in a human and Christian fashion. We must remember our own history. Many will recall the coffin ships of Black '47 and the people who were accepted on the shores of America and elsewhere. Our problem was not of a similar type but it was of similar dimensions. Let us now give a lead by considerably increasing the number of people who will be accepted here and by stepping up aid. The most important thing is to welcome the largest number of people we can accommodate.

An adjournment debate provides an opportunity for a review of the state of the nation and an assessment of the Government's performance to date. The Government have now reached what would normally be regarded as the midpoint of their term of office and such a general review is appropriate. For that reason I extend my remarks beyond my brief as spokesman on Foreign Affairs. There is no doubt that in objective terms the Government are considered to be a failure. This is not just my view or that of the general public. It is now realised within the Fianna Fáil Party, as evidenced by recent caucus meetings of Government backbenchers and the much-publicised criticism expressed at the official parliamentary party meeting on Wednesday of this week. Where did the Government go wrong? What are the reasons for the feelings of gloom sweeping the country? One can point to many aspects of our economy: high unemployment, return of emigration, inflation creeping back into double figures, industrial unrest, the credit squeeze, high interest rates, a devalued currency, the cutback in projected growth, uncertainties about energy supplies and the setbacks in the tourist industry. If one were prescribing a devil's recipe to administer to the economy it is doubtful if one could produce a better concoction.

Some of the factors leading to the foregoing are outside the control of the Government. Unfortunately for them, since there is a tendency for them to claim credit for any improvement in our affairs, however caused, the natural reaction on the part of the public is to allocate blame to the Government when the forward gears jam and the economic indicators go into reverse. We have had the situation in the past of Government Ministers cutting the tape at official openings and in many cases leaving the implication, when it was not openly expressed, that the project was entirely the result of their personal efforts or those of the Government. In this situation it is not surprising that when a project folds or things go wrong the reaction of the public is to blame the Government. The only suggestion I can make in this regard is that a little less trumpet blaring and a little more modesty when the sun shines might lead to more understanding when the rain pours. Be that as it may, we have to face the situation as we find it.

Coupled with factors outside their control, there is no doubt that the prevailing feelings of gloom and despondency have been largely contributed to by the failure of the present administration to honour extravagant election promises. In retrospect, the greatest effect of the Fianna Fáil manifesto was its contribution to the revolution of rising expectations among our people. Clear and decisive action was promised to overcome the problems of unemployment and inflation. The programmes were summarised in that glossy document, the Fianna Fáil manifesto. They promised a reduction in unemployment figures of 5,000 in 1977, 20,000 in 1978 and 25,000 in 1979. Prices were also to be reduced, though people tend to forget that now. Prices were to be reduced by 1 per cent in 1977, 2 per cent in 1978 and a further 2 per cent in 1979. Now in July 1979 unemployment stands at between 95,000 and 100,000—I find it difficult to get an exact figure because statistics are so late in coming through from the Government. Inflation is running at the rate of 12.5 per cent and rising. Is it any wonder that the public have little understanding of or sympathy for the economic difficulties of the Government?

There were also airy-fairy commitments. There was the 50-mile limit about which the Government, when in Opposition, felt so strongly that they actually brought in a Private Members' Bill. This commitment was repeated in the manifesto. There was also a commitment about the abolition of ground rents. Those can only be looked at now as cynical vote-catching exercises without the Fianna Fáil Party having the magic wand, after assuming power, to implement them.

The Government will have to remember, as all politicians should, that promises made, which may in one election bring success may arise ghost-like in the next election to haunt the non-deliverer. There is a creeping cynicism developing in the community, particularly among the young, that those in whom trust and confidence were reposed are not to be relied on and that, consequently the democratic process is a failure. This is a very serious development which has caused the Government and Opposition some concern. If respect for the rule of law and the democratic system should diminish to the point where radical, undemocratic alternatives are seen as the answer to the problems which confront the nation, then we all have something to answer for.

I suggest a change of direction in the approach of the Government to the general public. We are facing real problems. The time is ripe for the Government to take the public into their confidence and to give them the full facts in clear, unambiguous terms, undiluted by cloudy explanations designed to justify the present position. If there is a clear admission of failures at this stage, there is more likely to be understanding and co-operation from all sections of the community in jointly tackling the immense problems that face us. Co-operation from all sections of the community will be necessary if those problems are to be overcome.

I feel the country needs a dose of honesty. If the Government are the first to take the medicine the lead they give will provide the desired impetus to get the train of state back on the rails. I recall reading at one time the election slogan of Barbara Jordan, a candidate in Texas in the United States, in the sixties, which I made a note of. I suggest to the Government that they might carefully consider it and implement it. Her slogan was:

If we propose, we must produce,

If we promise, we must deliver,

If we ask for sacrifice, we must be the first to give,

If we make mistakes, we must be the first to admit them.

The decline in public morale, to which I have referred, can be traced to other sources. It is fair criticism to suggest that at the moment we have a Government who are bereft of idealism, courage and leadership. There is strong evidence that this is one of the contributory factors to the decline in public morale to-day.

One would expect any Government to give a lead in their appreciation of the applications of the principles of natural justice. In this context the Garvey case gives rise to very disturbing questions. It is not just the callous manner in which the Commissioner, a servant of the State for 40 years, was dismissed. Despite being indicted by the Supreme Court the Minister for Justice did not show any desire to make amends. There does not appear to be the slightest appreciation of the enormity of his actions. This is very disturbing, particularly coming from the Minister for Justice who should be giving a lead in this area.

In the Bovine Diseases Bill the Minister for Agriculture felt there were some sections in it which were necessary to help enforce disease eradication. I told him that there should be a right of appeal against those draconian powers and that there should be some consideration of the individual and natural rights of the people affected by the exercise of those powers. The Minister for Agriculture called those suggestions lawyer's talk and this indicated that he had no appreciation of what was involved. This lack of appreciation goes right through every Department of State. There must be an understanding of the principles of natural justice and there must be an application of those principles.

I believe a challenge faces all of us, particularly the Government, of looking at what type of society we want to create. I do not believe that anybody on the Government side appreciates the need for such a view, let alone have the vision to express it in concrete terms. In less than 21 years we will reach the year 2000. It is necessary for the Government to sketch in broad terms what are our aims by the time we reach that year, what sort of society we want to create and what the problems will be at that time, so that some leadership can be provided by them in nudging our society along the lines towards the goal which, by common consent, we agree we should be heading for.

That is the real message I want to give to the Government in this adjournment debate. I believe they have a duty to provide leadership, to be fair, yet decisive, in their actions. I believe the greatest indictment of the Government is that they have not provided this leadership. I am not speaking in political terms now. In the interests of the country it is necessary that leadership be provided. I call on the Government to examine their conscience in this regard and to ensure that in the time between now and the next election they provide the leadership which is needed and give a headline to our society. If the Government continue to fail in this principal area it will be considered in the future their greatest failure.

What are we up to now? I have been offering since the Taoiseach finished this morning.

Acting Chairman

It has been the practice to call a Member from the Government side and then a member of the Opposition. That is what I am doing.

It has not been the practice to continue to do so.

Acting Chairman

I have called Deputy Brady.

I must protest for the simple reason that this debate today has been arranged to facilitate the Taoiseach who must be in Strasbourg as a matter of courtesy——

Acting Chairman

The Deputy should respect the Chair. I have called Deputy Brady.

I have respect for the Chair. However, I must insist on my rights in this House. Therefore, I must seem to disrespect the Chair and if that is the choice that is it.

Acting Chairman

I am sorry but I have called Deputy Brady.

I am not giving way on the floor of this House until there is a ruling.

Acting Chairman

I am insisting on the Deputy resuming his seat.

I do not care if you give a ruling. I will not be denied my rights in this House——

Acting Chairman

The Chair is not denying the Deputy his rights. I do not think he can claim that. What is being done has been the practice and I request the Deputy to resume his seat.

There is connivance between the Chair and the parties.

Acting Chairman

The Deputy must resume his seat.

I am not resuming my seat. I do not intend to resume my seat until I get an explanation as to why I am denied a right in this House that has been accorded to the Taoiseach in order that he might go to Strasbourg. I have got to be there on Tuesday by right, not as a matter of courtesy. I wish to speak in this House and I insist on my right to speak.

Acting Chairman

The Deputy has every right to speak but not at this time. I have called Deputy Brady. I must tell Deputy Blaney I am not going to change my decision.

I insist on my rights.

Acting Chairman

Is it not the practice for a Deputy to sit down when the Chair is standing? The Deputy is showing disrespect for the Chair and I am afraid I shall have to send for the Ceann Comhairle or for the Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

I have no intention of sitting down.

Acting Chairman

Then I shall have to send for the Ceann Comhairle to make a decision on the matter.

That is what I wish you to do.

I hope I get my full quota of time.

In view of the fact that this has caused somewhat of a dilemma and useful time is being wasted——

Acting Chairman

There is no dilemma so far as the Chair is concerned.

If that is the way you want to take it, so be it. We will sit here and wait for the Ceann Comhairle even if it takes an hour.

Acting Chairman

Has the Deputy a suggestion to make?

It is all right—if you want to be cocky about it, good luck to you.

Acting Chairman

The Deputy must respect the Chair. If he has a suggestion to make we will hear it.

I should like to ask the Leas-Cheann Comhairle what is the position with regard to my being called to speak today.

It is the intention of the Chair—we had already made up our minds—that we would let a couple from each side be called. The Deputy will be called at 3.30 p.m. Deputy Brady is in possession, a speaker from the Labour Party will be next and then Deputy Blaney will be called.

I was quite satisfied to wait while the three and three operation went through. After Deputy O'Keeffe spoke I understood a speaker from the Labour Party would be called but instead a speaker from Fianna Fáil was called.

That has been the procedure for the past two years. It goes from one side to the other alternately. Deputy Brady is now in possession. I will then call Deputy Bermingham and then Deputy Blaney. He is only wasting time now by continuing with this matter.

My time is being wasted. May I put this to the Chair for the record? In the past I have insisted on getting called fourth and I will insist on doing so in the future. I am saying this for the record.

The Chair will call the speakers, nobody else. The Chair makes that decision. Deputy Brady is in possession.

On a point of order, if the Chair is insisting that only the Chair decides on who is to be called, what is the explanation for his abiding by a prearrangement? At least the Chair should be consistent.

What is the Deputy talking about?

I am talking about the prearrangement of which the Chair has informed us, of calling so many from each side. With whom was that arrangement made?

Down through the years it has been the practice for the Chair to give the political parties an opportunity of putting in speakers before any Independent is called.

I suppose I am not a politician at all. Do I not belong to a political party? If the Chair has regard to the results of the last election and of the previous election he will realise that I have a party and that, unlike his party, it is not falling apart.

The Deputy is only wasting his own time.

I am not wasting anyone's time but I suggest that the Chair refers to the procedure that has been followed in the past and which I shall attempt to operate in the future.

In ordinary circumstances Deputy Blaney would be very lucky to be called on a short day like this and when only six speakers have been called so far.

It is not necessary for Deputy Blaney to depend on luck. We shall leave that sort of situation to some of the other Members of the House who are lucky to be here. I shall not allow myself to be pushed around by anyone.

Deputy Blaney, like any other Deputy, must await his turn. He knows that there are 148 Deputies in the House.

I am not being given a fair deal. There has been a contrived debate today to suit people who, by courtesy only, need to go to Strasbourg whereas I, who must be there, am not being accommodated.

The Deputy will be called.

But in the Chair's time.

The Chair has had a good deal of patience with the Deputy but if he persists on those lines he may not be called at all.

The Chair will not succeed in that respect. He has said that I will be called at 3.30 p.m. and that is the time at which I will be here.

It will now be 3.40 p.m. before the Deputy is called.

That is all right so long as I am given the second call from now. Deputy Brady lost 10 minutes already and that would not have happened if he had sat down when the whistle blew.

I am surprised that Deputy Blaney should speak like that regarding a new Deputy.

Let us hear the wise little man from the south telling us what to do.

Deputy Brady is in possession.

The Minister of State will throw some light on the situation.

I have some respect for a new Deputy.

The Minister is not able to throw light on anything that he is supposed to know about. What I am saying has nothing to do with the Deputy who wishes to speak.

At the beginning of this year there was much optimism in the country. Our prospects seemed very bright then for the year. We had done well in 1978. Inflation had been brought under control and for the first time in many years it had been brought back to a single figure. The Government's jobs programme was ahead of target. There was a decrease in unemployment and each week showed a decrease in the figures. In addition price increases had been brought down to within the set targets. Unfortunately, however, there were signs that industrial relations were not good. As we all know there is nothing more painful, more serious and more damaging to the economy than a series of strikes and stoppages, whether they be official or unofficial. On many occasions and very consistently the Government have warned of the damaging consequences to the country of a situation in which pay demands would be greater than national production.

Obviously, during this adjournment debate various views will be expressed by speakers from all sides of the House and as well as having some constructive criticism we are bound to hear also some negative criticism. If criticism is constructive it can be extremely good, but in the situation in which we find ourselves in terms of industrial relations, Members on the other side of the House should adopt a responsible attitude and should not play politics purely in the interest of scoring points.

The world generally has had to cut back on projected growth rates for the remainder of this year. Due mainly to the increased prices in oil and the resulting cutbacks in energy, continued expansion of economies will be hit drastically in the immediate years. Why, then, should we who are a small nation continue to hold expectations of continued prosperity, and there are such expectations if one is to judge from the demands for huge wage increases. We seem to have lost touch completely with reality. Down through the years we have been doing extremely well and particularly so since we joined the EEC, but we must have discipline if we are to survive and with the kind of discipline that is necessary we should be able to overcome any crisis. There was a time when we were so dependent on Britain that is was said that if Britain only sneezed we developed pneumonia. Thankfully, that situation has long gone. We are now a fully-fledged partner in the EEC. We are a well-developed nation, but this development carries certain responsibilities. Our people must realise that we must live within our means. They must accept that in certain circumstances it may be necessary to make sacrifices.

Past experience has taught us that wage demands in excess of national growth and development are useless and, if conceded, only involve the nation in a vicious spiral of rising prices, a situation that erodes completely any increase in take-home pay and, consequently, leaves the wage earner worse off than he was before the increases were given. However, that consideration is minor compared with the damage that such an attitude causes to the economy. Increasing costs leave our exports more expensive and foreign investment in Ireland is seriously damaged. In recent years the IDA have done an exceptionally good job, indeed a magnificant job, in encouraging foreign industrialists to start operations here, thereby creating additional jobs and creating additional wealth in the areas concerned. But rising costs at home make the task of the IDA in this respect all the more difficult. We operate today in a very competitive market in the world. Whether we are trying to sell our products abroad or are endeavouring to attract foreign industrialists to set up here, we will lose out unless the terms are attractive in relation to cost factors and so on. People on fixed incomes are seriously affected.

Quite rightly in recent years, great emphasis has been placed on improving the living standards of the weaker sections of the community. Each year at the various conferences the trade union movement have passed motions to that effect. During negotiations between employers, trade unions and the Government the unions have strongly insisted on progressive improvements in pensions and benefits for social welfare recipients. I am very happy that the Government needed no encouragement to improve the standards of the weaker sections of the community. Each budget has provided a well-deserved and worth-while increase in pensions and social welfare benefits. Our senior citizens deserve the best possible treatment.

The new scheme recently introduced by the Minister for Social Welfare for the benefit of severely handicapped persons has received little or no publicity. This is an excellent scheme. A mobility allowance of £150 will be paid to a person below the pensionable age of 66 years, living at home and not necessarily alone. This will help such people to benefit from an occasional trip away from home. Another area in which the Minister for Social Welfare has taken action is the free fuel scheme. Most Deputies will be aware of the problems which have arisen in implementing that scheme in recent years. I am glad the Government have taken an initiative and broadened the scheme to provide a voucher for £1.50 a week which will enable a pensioner to purchase any type of fuel, turf, briquettes, coal, oil, electricity, or whatever.

Such actions are practicable. This is a positive source of help and assistance for the weaker sections of the community. Too often lip-service is paid to them with little or no constructive, practical back-up. I have no doubt many trade union leaders and members are sincere in their pronouncements about better standards of living for the old and the sick and better job opportunities for young people and the unemployed. I question very much how strongly those considerations are taken into account at the point of wage bargaining and wage negotiations. In recent years the Government, the trade unions and employers have all been described as partners. Could not that title or description be extended to pensioners and old people in our community so that they could be considered in a practical way at the time of wage bargaining? This would leave more in the Government's kitty for redistribution.

The recent rejection of the national understanding came as a great disappointment to many people. It had been hailed as a tremendous breakthrough in planning for the future in a very practical way. It provided for a great many things apart from what is now in retrospect, in view of present conditions, a very generous and more than reasonable pay offer. It provided a guarantee of job creation and better standards for pensioners. Its rejection was unfortunate and regrettable.

In this context I should like to compare the lip-service I have referred to with practical action. I wonder are so many of our people out of touch with reality so far as excessive wage demands are concerned. Many trade union leaders are doing a fine job. They are very conscientious, and I have the greatest respect for many of them. They are hard workers. There are, however, those who at times are weak or irresponsible. The greatest and most serious challenge to trade unions comes from the small sectional interests within the unions themselves. There have been far too many unofficial strikes. It is serious to reflect that in the past 12 months the vast majority of strikes took place at unofficial level and without the consent of the trade union leaders.

The strike weapon should not be used indiscriminately and should always be looked upon as the ultimate action. Too many workers now treat the strike weapon irresponsibly, and the country is being slowly choked to death. Very often managements leave a great deal to be desired. Management and higher executives sometimes fail to understand the need for modern industrial relations, and this causes many problems. Management training is very important. I do not believe a course in the Management Institute, for example, or elsewhere, qualifies a person to manage personnel. Personnel management should be selected on the basis of experience of working with people from the bottom up. The man or woman who comes up through the ranks and receives management training always turns out to be a more understanding and more efficient manager, and has far better prospects of having a good relationship with the staff, as against the college graduate who comes into a business with little or no experience but with a string of letters after his name.

In the final analysis, people will hold the Government of the day responsible for industrial relations. The Government must convince the trade union leaders and the community as a whole that the country can only afford certain pay increases. Otherwise there will be a free-for-all with the Government in the middle as the biggest single employer. In such a situation the weaker sections of the community will suffer most and will be the worst off. This is a major problem for the Government.

Irrespective of anything else, the Government must be seen to govern and take whatever action is considered appropriate in the circumstances. It must be the aim and the objective to ensure that the wage agreement proposed between the employers and the unions will not retard or seriously impair the job creation programme. That programme and the social policies set out previously must succeed. The hopes and prospects of many thousands of young people depend on the success of the Government strategy and their continuing efforts to bring about a dramatic fall in unemployment. It will be a national disaster, and it will be unforgivable, if selfishness and greed destroy those prospects.

Earlier this year we became a full member of the EMS. That was an historical step. It gave us currency independence for the first time in our modern history. It also opened up for us new channels, new avenues and prospects. It was stressed at the time that, if we were to take full advantage of the opportunities which would be presented to us, strong discipline in our internal economic habits was needed. In the interim, the punt has lost par with sterling. This happened much earlier than was anticipated. At the outset it was not anticipated either that, in the event of a break with sterling, the value of the punt would suffer to an extent of over 5 per cent.

A number of factors within the United Kingdom caused sterling to revalue. Confidence in the punt abroad has not weakened. While this results in our imports from the United Kingdom becoming more expensive, on the other hand, we have gained a big price advantage in our biggest market for the export of our goods. Now we are about to face our biggest test since joining the EMS. In the depression of 1975-76 we were tied to sterling and we moved closely, almost step by step, with the United Kingdom's economy. We are now committed to the EMS and we must keep ourselves in line with the disciplines of the system or face a downgrading in our position, which will surely happen if we push our costs beyond what is justifiable. The EMS is a club with very strict rules and we cannot opt out of it at this stage. Inflation is indeed a disease and it will grow worse if we increase our costs in order to grab more than we can afford. Apart from the wage earners, other sectors must restrain themselves. Our previous experience shows that restraint is doubtful but we must take a little less in order to achieve success. The Government may have to apply measures in order to help the economy. Any action taken in this respect will, I am sure, be welcomed privately, if not publicly.

Most people have now accepted the oil shortage as a fact of life. Our reaction to the shortage must be two-fold. In the short term we must conserve our supply of oil and in the long term the world's scientists must develop a viable alternative. The conservation of supplies has been neglected. An improvement in conservation measures would stretch supplies and help us to achieve lower costs. The provision of better roads, the better management of transport fleets, the better maintenance of private vehicles and improved driving would help to achieve savings. The Department of the Environment should insist on a training programme for drivers. They should also insist on better vehicle maintenance, which is desirable for other reasons. The relief of traffic congestion in our major cities, where snarl-ups waste petrol, would ensure a major saving. A more efficient and economical public transport system must also be urgently developed. Such a system would ease the traffic congestion and would take many cars off the roads.

I was very interested to hear that the Government have accepted suggestions made by the CII for maximum temperature levels in all public buildings. From time to time we have suffered from high temperatures in Leinster House and a reduction in the temperature would not do us any harm.

It is not due to lack of oil, I am afraid.

Householders are concerned about the supply of heating oil and many of them are converting their systems to solid fuel. The Minister for the Environment should consider improving the grant scheme for this purpose. I should be happy if he introduced an order providing grants for houses less than ten years old. However, this is a matter for the Minister and I am sure that he is capable of giving the matter consideration.

The need for alternative sources of energy has been accepted worldwide. The energy crisis dominated the business of the recent EEC Summit Meeting. Apart from nuclear power, the alternatives are solar and wind power. We must produce alternative sources of energy in order to provide employment for young persons and in order to maintain the economy. Research and development in this field is many years behind. Therefore, it would seem to give us Hobson's choice in making decisions for the future.

It has been decided to set up a public inquiry into nuclear options. I hope that the matter will be approached in a mature and responsible way and that it will not be used to demonstrate by overemotional objectors. We must face the problem in the same way as other states. Germany has set an example in this respect. Scope is given to the hearing of objections in a democratic society. At the same time we must not allow ourselves to be blinded and object to something that could be of benefit to us, as well as being necessary for our survival. The close scrutiny by the public of important decisions is an exercise in democracy. That is the way in which we should approach the concept of a nuclear station at Carnsore Point.

It is the duty of the Government to ensure that democratic rights are not abused. Let us consider the farcical situation in regard to the Wood Quay site. The site was first purchased by the corporation more than 23 years ago for the development of civic offices. Apart from the value of the site as a national monument——

The Chair would prefer the Deputy not to get into a discussion of the Wood Quay site. The Chair is not certain that this House has any responsibility for it.

I was just making the point that the Wood Quay site has been used as a political football.

The Chair feels that it is a matter for Dublin Corporation.

I accept the Chair's ruling. As a Deputy for the constituency of Dublin North-Central, I am conscious of the problems of the inner-city area. The inner city has been allowed to decay in recent years. All past Governments must share the blame for the conditions in the area. Since 1977, when I first came into the House, the problems of underdevelopment in the inner city have been debated many times. The Opposition Deputies in my constituency, Michael O'Leary and Michael Keating, also face the terrible conditions in which many families live. Both Deputies will also agree that the previous Government ignored the inner city. Derelict sites were allowed to over-grow and the number of them increased dramatically. Houses were allowed to decay; indeed, some collapsed. Businesses were allowed to run down and thousands of jobs were lost. In 1973 the then Minister for Finance announced that the Coalition Government intended to penalise owners of derelict sites. Nothing was done and the Coalition Government had four-and-a-half years to introduce legislation.

The problems in the inner city are so great and so many that we all realise they will not be solved by any one single action. They will not be solved easily or quickly. Indeed, if we were to consider all of the ills, the deficiencies and the various problems and if a price tag were put on an individual solution to each problem, we would come up with a frightening figure. However, the Minister for Economic Planning and Development is heading a committee to look into the inner-city problems and recently it was announced that an inner-city group was being set up to go into this problem in a practical way. I hope that, with the conclusion of the inner-city group's activities, we can indeed look forward to a better city with fewer problems and less vandalism. I know that the Minister has accepted his role very seriously and I look forward to an increasing effort to bring about the implementation of the various programmes for the improvement of the facilities for the people in that part of Dublin.

In a debate of this kind it is fair to review the activities of the Government over their period in office; it would be impractical not to do so. I should like to make a few points and, in the time allowed to me, I will deal with them as thoroughly as I can.

The area that I have responsibility for is agriculture. We were promised much by Fianna Fáil in their manifesto. One of the promises was a bald statement which meant nothing to anyone who knew the facts, and that was the statement that we would process all our own food. That is a very laudable object indeed but since this Government took office there has been a remarkable slowing down in that area and there has been a remarkable reduction in the number of people employed in the processing of our meat.

Other people in Europe laugh when we talk about our livestock exports. We, in the Labour Party, believe that this should be at a minimum. Yet the Minister introduced a Bill the other day to set up a body whose object would be to promote the export of live cattle. I impressed upon him in the debate on that Bill that what he should be doing is finding ways and means of selling our processed cattle so as to give employment.

During this Government's period in office there has also been a slowing down in the processing of vegetables. Surely this is not the way to go about it if we mean to create employment from agriculture. The Government have reneged completely on the part of the manifesto which says that we will process all our own food.

When the Coalition Government were in office the question of land structure was a very live subject. An interdepartmental committee was set up and it made recommendations to the Minister for Agriculture shortly after the present Government took office. These recommendations were fair and just and would have done something about the old problem of land structure here. If we mean to keep our people in employment on the land and not have them coming out in thousands every year to swell the unemployment queues in our cities something will have to be done about the large farmers, large business interests and foreign interests that are buying the small farmers off the land.

Indeed, the situation is worse now than in the days of Michael Davitt. The interdepartmental committee's report has been in the hands of this Government for the past 12 months and the Minister says that we will have a Bill before us by the end of the year and that he will implement legislation by the end of the following year. I can tell the Minister that in my constituency a major of the Shah's army, who has since been executed, owns a large estate in my constituency while we have small holders who are finding themselves in a position where they will have to consider giving up their traditional way of life if they cannot get more land. The Land Commission as presently constituted is no longer interested in the acquisition of land. That is apparent to anyone who has any interest in the viability of the small farmer in our society.

I am not suggesting for a moment and I never have suggested that the farmer should not pay his fair share of taxes and my party have been very specific and clear on that, but this 2 per cent levy has made the very small profit industry of fattening live cattle for our factories one that will not be continued by people who can change to another type of farming and that will mean unemployment in our meat factories. That has been evidenced in no uncertain terms in my county and, more recently, in Dublin.

There are many other areas I want to touch on and I will show that in each of those areas the Government have failed to do what is necessary for our own people. Let us take the area of local government or, as it is now known, the environment. There is a change of name but there is no change in the functions of the Minister except that at present he is going in a backward direction. Two years ago we were told that the slogan was to get the country moving again. That slogan did not say in which direction but most of us now know that it did not mean in the direction that it was meant to imply.

On the question of housing, my particular interest is in local authority housing—providing houses for people who cannot provide them for themselves by their own efforts. In my county, where I am a member of the county council, we set up a very conservative programme a few years ago. We were asked by the then Minister to produce an estimate of the number of houses we would want to build each year and what kind of money we would need to be allocated to our council from central funds. I, at the time, expressed the view to my own council that their estimate of 250 houses a year was conservative.

Our allocation this year from this Government and this Minister for local authority houses is £145,000, for new starts. That will provide 11 houses for the people of Kildare. In Newbridge town alone we have 250 people in urgent need of rehousing and unable to provide their own. This is the Government which told us, by directives or communications to our county council, that we should encourage people to build their own houses. We have always encouraged people able to do so to build their own houses, but the limit of a man's income must be £3,500. If he earns more than that, he cannot get a county council loan. The type of people we are being asked to encourage to build their own houses will get a loan nowhere else. If a man is living on a total income of £3,500 and has a wife and family to support, his chances of getting a loan from a building society are very slim.

If he has earned over £3,500 in his last tax year, he cannot get a housing loan from the county council. That is the unfortunate situation and it is a situation that no one—no Minister, no county council, no-one else—could justify, that a person who has £3,500 gross income, without tax deductions, is the only person who can now get a housing loan from county councils or local authorities to build a house. Is the Minister serious about rehousing our people, with the allocation of houses he gave to our council, and the loan limits? Mind you, Fianna Fáil did a lot of complaining about the loan limits during the time of the previous Government. They offered £1,000 to people who would build their own houses. They did not say, at that time, that the net result of all this would be an increase of over 33? per cent in the cost of housing. The kind of money that would provide a home for a man and his family then would now be no use, even for the cost of the house. The cost of the site now, in comparison with then, is something that has to be felt practically by someone, to be fully realised.

We can say with justification that this Government have completely failed in their housing programme. There is no doubt in the mind of anyone who wants to be impartial on that. We have heard here today, and in many other places great boasting about all the great things being done by the Minister for Health and Social Welfare. We heard about our old and less well-off people from the other side of the House. A process was started by the previous Government of reducing the qualifying age for old age pensions by a year at a time. During our four years in office, we reduced the qualifying age from 70 years to 66 years. After all the great years of Fianna Fáil Government it still stood at 70, the qualifying age when the pension was introduced—I think by Lloyd George—in 1905. It stood at the same figure when Fianna Fáil left office in 1973. When they resumed office, one would have thought they would have continued the process of lowering that age, but since they returned to office there has been no further reduction in the qualifying age. Yet we are told that the old age pensioners were well looked after during this time.

There has been reference to the industrial position and to the post office strike by other people in these benches, and by my leader this morning; I do not want to go into that, but as I came through my own town this morning, there was a queue outside the post office of unfortunate people trying to collect their new pension books and to get the increase which this Government allege they have been receiving since last April. The reason the queue was there was that the old post office was under repair and temporary premises were being used for the last 12 to 18 months. I raised a question on the Adjournment about those facilities and the Minister of State at the Department of Posts and Telegraphs gave me an undertaking in this House that the new post office would be ready by the end of the year, which was last December. It is still not ready and because we had a strike for 17 weeks and the post office was closed we were saved utter chaos. We have the facilities back now, and the unfortunate old people have to queue out in the street, trying to get even the reduced rate of pensions from the stubs of their pension books, and trying to collect the new books and make arrangements to collect, whenever certain people make them out, whatever arrears of increases are due from April until now. That kind of treatment of the old does not show any special care for them.

I want to say a word about employment. It has been said, prior to now, that the Government's performance on employment was going great; everything was flying; they were producing new jobs. I never saw any in my own area. It has been said that there were so many jobs produced, but the number of unemployed seems to stay the same. At the last general election we were told about all the jobs that Fianna Fáil would have for our young school-leavers. I say here and now, that, as far as the young people leaving school in my constituency are concerned, there is no improvement in the situation since this Government took office.

We had a unique opportunity of providing employment in the timber industry but, not alone did our Minister for Fisheries and Forestry not produce employment in that industry, where we had the raw material provided by this State, with large investments over a number of years, but he allowed our two major timber industries to close down —one in my town and one in Waterford. The present situation is that there is no timber industry to use the timber produced in our forests over the years and it is being sold to another administration. That, certainly, is not the kind of action that I would expect from a Government doing their job in regard to employment. The biggest and most important issue, from the point of view of the campaign carried out by Fianna Fáil at the last general election, was the question of prices. The Taoiseach, who was then Leader of the Opposition, during his tour of the country, went into a supermarket in our constituency, where he took up a very practical item—a pound of butter. The woman beside him said "What do you think of the price of that?", because prices was the principal point at the time, and the present Taoiseach's answer was "Put my party into power and we will do something about that", and they certainly did. They removed half the food subsidies and increased prices by about 14p or 15p.

That was a campaign of deceit. Fianna Fáil were implying that they would reduce the prices of those articles. In fact they deliberately, by removing part of the food subsidies, increased the price of bread, flour, butter, cheese and many other items directly or indirectly. That is part of the—I think—17 per cent increase in the price of food in their term of office. That 17 per cent increase is on top of the prices they so bitterly complained of in the last election campaign. They talk of a rate of inflation being reduced to 7 per cent but it has now gone back up to 12½ per cent and that is on top of what it was last year. Fianna Fáil Ministers now tell us that the price of oil and petrol inevitably caused the increases I am talking about. It is strange how the same thing is being said by different people at different times. They would not listen to that argument two years ago. By implication they were saying that they could buy fuel and everything else cheaper.

Shortly after they got into power by the devious means I have outlined, they were fortunate enough to experience a reduction in the price of oil. The present Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy took full advantage of that by making an order and giving full publicity to the fact that the price of oil was being reduced. If he took the credit when it was reduced due to no action of his, he should take some of the flak now when it is going in the other direction.

Poor people living alone on old age pensions are being told by Bord na Móna that there will be no machine turf this year, no briquettes and told by the ESB that they cannot buy any more heaters because there will be no power to supply them. We cannot buy cookers; we must conserve electricity. The Government should tell us what those people should use since there will be no machine turf or briquettes and only a certain amount of electricity. Are people to die of cold as some did last winter? Let the Government tell the people the truth about the position, about the mess they have got us into by trying to implement some of the mad, harebrained schemes they initiated when trying to win the last election. Who would say it is better to take the tax off cars now and encourage people on to the roads and away from public transport when we now have queues at every petrol pump in this city. When I wanted petrol this morning I had to continue driving because I had no time to queue.

The Government should consider the plight of a man who, leaving home about 7 a.m., drives 30 or 40 miles to work. He has no travel expenses and does not get a tax-free allowance for the cost of his car to go to work. What does the Minister intend to do so that such a man can get petrol for his car to get to work? Will he say that everybody who has a car registered should get some supply and that garages should open at certain times to make it available? Such men leave home before the garages open and do not get back until long after they have closed. They have no hope of getting petrol elsewhere because they are not known and they are not influential: they work more by brawn than by brain. Public transport is not available to get them to their employment. What are they to be told by the Minister who is afraid to tackle the petrol situation and ration supplies or do what is required to be done to do justice to these workers? As things stand, no man who has to go to work before the garages open and comes home after they close can get supplies. What will the Minister do about that situation? He took action to ensure that tourists would get petrol, and could drive past the queues to get petrol at any station that was open. I do not blame the Minister for that or say he should not have done it but what action will he take to ensure that the man who wants to get to work will get petrol? Such workers have to meet the increased price of petrol without any tax allowance.

That is the kind of Government we are asked to have confidence in and to whom the Taoiseach has asked us to be kind. Previous speakers said that workers are ready to strike for anything but workers have been put in a position where they realise that everybody else can have as much profit as they can make without restriction. For the worker the Government suggest—they say it for others also but how do they propose to enforce it—that 7 per cent is good enough. If we want workers to co-operate with a 7, 9 per cent or 10 per cent increase, let us take them into our confidence and say by what means these standards will be enforced on directors and owners of industry who pay this 10 per cent.

I cannot help but think about the time two years ago when this Government came into office. With the mess left by the previous Government and the sweeping majority that this Government succeeded in getting, there were expectations in the first meetings and first days of this Government, that something would be done. We should have taken note of what then happened. We formed a Government, elected a Taoiseach and he named his Government. After a few preliminaries we packed up and, against my protest, toddled off home for a long break. That was the worst possible thing we could have done, because what was then needed was so urgent that it could not wait until after the summer. After the long break we came back with the expectation somewhat dented and the enthusiasm of the new Government on the wane. No proposals were forthcoming other than paper proposals, as they have proved themselves to be.

As regards the promises of jobs and of reducing unemployment despite all the talk, plans and various numbers we have been given, we are really little better off than we were two years ago. Considering that we are two years further on and have not improved, we should regard ourselves as having gone backwards. We have lost and wasted two years during which the ravages of the previous Government's maladministration could have been cured by an imaginative, positive and courageous approach by the new Government, which got a representation in this House that none of them had contemplated. In fact, all of them would have written it down by 24 before the election. They could not see themselves being the new Government. Some of us told them they would not win the election but they would be the next Government because the Coalition were going to lose the election, which they duly did, but in such a manner that it surprised Fianna Fáil to such a degree that they have not got over their shock since. Worse than that, they have forgotten the belief that they had before the election that they had not a hope of winning.

The manifesto, about which we hear so much, has in its implementation so far as the give-aways are concerned, done much damage. The Government have forgotten that they did not really win the last election but that the Coalition lost it. After two years they do not realise that they had nothing going for them before the election. They had no great merit to entice a vote that would give them 84 seats were it not for the short-comings of the outgoing administration.

And the election promises.

Yes, and they were totally unnecessary as it turned out. Worse than that the election promises, which cost so much money that could have been more usefully used in the meantime, have been part of the downfall of the Government's expectations and the expectations of the public in regard to them.

I advocated then, and I do so now, that in a depression one cannot idle one's way out of it. It might well have been the case 40 or 50 years ago. One could have put people out of work, let them suffer and starve and eventually things would come right. We do not do that anymore. When we have almost 100,000 people unemployed, which is the average in recent years, and a social welfare system which while not perfect, nevertheless costs a great deal of money, the old cure of the financiers of the old days no longer operates. It is not operated now. Sitting and waiting for something to happen while this goes on will not cure our economic ills.

The manner of government at present seems to be one of waiting and hoping that actions by other people may bring about a situation where we will find ourselves back on stream and everything will go right for us. We can now see, after these years in the doldrums that this is not going to happen. We cannot afford to continue idling our way out of the depression. We have a lot of useful work to do. The people would have been prepared to sacrifice a lot two years ago, but whether they would have the confidence to do it now or not is another matter. Instead of giving handouts, which were needed so badly then to create employment in industries where we needed output—for example, the construction industry—we went willynilly on and wiped rates off buildings and tax off cars. We let the roads deteriorate. We have now reached a stage where our housing programme is almost at a standstill and our industry, which was tottering at that time, is now heading for collapse.

Due to our stabilised population we have need for more and more housing, buildings and structures of every sort. It costs more and more to provide these each year that passes. We have people standing around in queues in unemployment exchanges being paid inadequate money to keep body and soul together. Yet this is costing us so much as a nation that we cannot afford it. It seems crazy to me that from the first day this Government came into office, with all the alleged economic brains that they gathered around them, think-tanks and otherwise, they could not see the obvious.

Perhaps I am a simple person who misses the whole point of this. Can anyone imagine, in a personal capacity, finding themselves in the same situation as the nation finds itself? We have vital work to do. We have the strength, power manpower and the money. Instead of utilising it we tend to flitter it away, give it away in handouts and claim: "This we promised in the manifesto, this we have delivered." The year 1980 was to be the great year when we were to have full employment——

There is a grave shortage of building craftsmen. We cannot get them.

How can they be got when we cannot use them and they have to go elsewhere to occupy themselves rather than standing in dole queues? We have them by the score. We have tenders with the Department of the Environment from various county councils. Not 10 per cent of them have been sanctioned since last January. For my own county, capital has only been provided to start 17 houses.

If we have a shortage we are creating it. It is not a good answer if two years from now we still have the same situation and have fewer craft workers because they have gone elsewhere. We created the situation that drove them away. It amused me to hear in recent times calls for people to come back from Britain. To do what? To join the other 96,000 people unemployed? That is so daft that it does not stand contemplation.

We are fed this by the brains of the Fianna Fáil Government, who has been the economic adviser of the Taoiseach since 6 May 1970 behind the scenes before he ever became a Member of this House. He was advising when the Ministers of the Government were not capable of giving advice to their own leader. He became a TD and he immediately became a Minister. I remember far enough back another professor of economics who came in in the same manner and with almost exactly the same pattern. Then it was the Coalition Government. The same mistake was made then in that that Professor of Economics who, it was felt could do a great job for his Government and his Taoiseach but he turned out—I do not mean any disrespect to the man because I became quite fond of him as I got to know him as a person—a total disaster. The man who is now going to outstrip him for the record of being a greater disaster sits as adviser-in-chief on economic affairs to the Government, and to the Taoiseach in particular. It is he, obviously, who has designed and framed all those phoney operations, progress by numbers, policy of numbers. If one could only say to him at this stage that the numbers game is well and truly up, that there is no place for this sort of codology we have been listening to over the past two years that full employment was really around the corner when what was proposed to be done by the Government was to sit and wait for somebody else to do it for them or something to happen somewhere and then react.

We are in a disastrous situation and the Government do not seem to be aware of it. That is the amazing thing about this matter. We have heard about growth and the Government pointing out that so much growth has taken place, but I should like to ask: growth of what? We hear about new jobs being created but we never hear of the number of net gains as far as total jobs are concerned. Side by side with the number of new jobs we should be given the number of job losses that take place. Then we could readily see why the unemployment register does not fall. There is not much point in finding jobs—at very great cost, bother and trouble—if at the same time we are losing as much as we are gaining. Surely, nobody in Government, this House or anywhere else can feel satisfied that, if we are losing as much as we are gaining, we are making any ground. We are losing time and opportunity. Worse still, the greatest loss of all is that the public and those who create the wealth of the country are losing confidence in the ability of any part of this House to provide the leadership that is required if we are to go ahead again.

One thing I detect as a key note as to our failure in recent years has been the progressive decrease of confidence in ourselves which, in turn, must be pointed back at lack of real leadership. The leadership, and the inspiration, is not being given to our people. They are losing the confidence they did not have 30 years ago. As a result of the war, its happenings and change we began to emerge from a subservient attitude which was historically placed upon our people. It was due to that, as much as to any economic planning or to any leadership—all of them combined—that we got the sort of growth and improvement here from the late fifties right through the sixties.

If we went back a bit we would find that this downward trend did not occur overnight, in the last two years or, indeed, in the previous four years. It has been coming for quite some time. It can be tied up, in a way that would be alarming if we took proper note of it, with a loss of confidence and inspiration which goes back to the lack of leadership in the country, in this House and in the various Governments we have had. At present we have a high unemployment rate, as Deputy O'Keeffe mentioned. He read out a litany, which he said was a concoction that made for a very bad brew. I could not agree more. That had to do with unemployment figures, the bank rate, the lack of money, the tightening up of credit and the ceasing by the Central Bank, no doubt on direction by the Government, to print paper money in Sandyford as they have been doing for some time. That has come about as part of the EMS deal we made. The reason is that we have to do this if we are to keep up in the league we are now in, to keep up with the Germans and French as far as their money values are concerned. We have to restrict and restrain. We have to, by ceasing to produce that money, put the interest rates so high that borrowers are scared off. However, that is having all the other side effects at the same time.

We are in for a very bad time unless the ginger group that has now emerged within Fianna Fáil, something that was needed within a group of 84, can put the ginger where it counts. There is very little hope of improving ourselves or our country's economy in the future. We have heard quite a lot about the question of energy, nuclear energy, nuclear power and nuclear stations. The Government have been almost as lucky as the previous administration in that when they are up to their knees in trouble something happens outside that diverts the attention of the people. This fuel business seems to be the saver because everything can be blamed on that, although we know well that is not true. Nobody has told us why it was that this came upon us like a bolt from the blue. We did not go short of petrol and oil overnight. This could be foreseen for a long time if we had the brains we are supposed to have on the Fianna Fáil benches guiding our economy and our country. Last January, when 3p extra was granted by the National Prices Commission, the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy refused to confirm it. I should like to know if it is a fact that at that time, had that amount been granted as recommended by the NPC, we would have been guaranteed full supplies for 1979. However, because it would reflect itself in the cost of living index, which was due out a few weeks after that, it was delayed. That delay was a disaster which brought about the situation we face today.

We had to have an inquiry lasting many days to inform the Minister about the extent of our oil supplies, but those figures are collected daily by officials of the Revenue Commissioners for the purpose of collecting revenue on every gallon that is discharged from storage. We seem to have lost sight of those things. We were told that there was no crisis. Where was it? We were asked: "What crisis?" That was a question asked by a certain person on a famous occasion at the airport nine years ago. The situation recently was almost a replica of that incident except in this case it had to do with fuel. What about our bogs, the wind, the seas, biomass and the sun? Other countries that are not so dependent on outside supplies as we are have for years been experimenting and making great progress in the harnessing of the waves and the wind. However, we seem to be reaping the wind rather than harnessing it. I am aware that many county councils have been clamouring for years, just as I have been, to get even one penny piece from the Government to provide access to the bogs, not because of a shortage of oil but because of the increase in the cost of other fuels, including coal. Those bogs, and the bog roads, are just as they were then. Thousands of householders could supply themselves from those bogs.

Debate adjourned.
The Dáil adjourned at 4 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 17 July 1979.
Top
Share