Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 29 Nov 1979

Vol. 317 No. 3

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Southern Cross Route.

19.

Mr. Horgan

asked the Minister for the Environment in relation to the Southern Cross road route (a) the steps being taken to expedite land purchase; (b) if he intends to use the powers vested in him under the Local Government Roads and Motorways' Act 1974 to help expedite purchase of the land; (c) the amount of money the Government have released in the current year for the commencement of land purchase; and (d) if he has had any contact with county council officials on the question of the programme for the completion of the work on the Southern Cross route.

20.

Mr. Kelly

asked the Minister of the Environment in view both of the commitment given at a public meeting on 22 May last by the Minister for Fisheries and Forestry and of the motion passed by the Dublin County Council at their September meeting, in relation to the Southern Cross road route; (a) the steps being taken to expedite land purchase; (b) if he intends to use the powers vested in him under the Local Government Roads and Motorways Act, 1974 to help expedite the purchase of land; (c) the amount of money the Government have released in the current year for the commencement of land purchase; and (d) if he has had any contact with the county council officials on the question of the programme for the completion of the work on the road.

Mr. Barrett

I propose, with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, to take Questions Nos. 19 and 20 together.

I assume the Deputies' questions relate to the proposals of Dublin County Council, for a new road between the Naas Road at Red Cow and Harolds Grange, which I approved in principle on 3 October, 1978. The timing and execution of road works in that location, including the acquisition of any necessary land, are primarily matters for Dublin County Council. In the current year I have allocated road grants totalling £1.135 millions to meet the construction and land acquisition costs of a section of the route in question which has been planned by the council. The provision of finance for construction and land acquisition costs of further sections of the route will, in the normal course, be considered when acceptable proposals are received from the council. The project for the construction of the new road is the subject of continuing consultation between officers of my Department and of the county council.

In these circumstances, the powers and direction available to me under the Local Government (Roads and Motorways) Act, 1974 do not arise.

Mr. Horgan

Arising from the Minister's question——

Mr. Kelly

I wish to know——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Horgan, please.

Mr. Horgan

Will the Minister accept that the matter just referred to is not the proposal to build the road as far as Harolds Grange, but the specific proposal for that portion of the Southern Cross route beyond Harolds Grange? Is the Minister now saying that he has not made any commitment in relation to that portion of the route beyond Harolds Grange despite his party's pre-election pledge during the general election campaign?

Mr. Barrett

The Southern Cross route, as it is known, is the part of the proposed motorway system from Sandyford to Rathcoole. The Deputy might be talking about further road proposals from the Southern Cross study group other than the Southern Cross route. I am not familiar with the names of the areas.

Mr. Horgan

Would the Minister agree that what he included in his statement was a repetition of an earlier statement by him in relation to the portion of the Southern Cross route which ends at Harolds Grange? What we have been asking the Minister for, for two years, is an extra commitment in relation to the far more critical and controversial portion of that Southern Cross route, the bit from Harolds Grange to Sandyford. Will the Minister give a commitment which is stronger than the commitment simply to examine it or consider it, when it comes up from the county council?

Mr. Barrett

There was further correspondence recently from this group who suggested that the road be extended to Clover Hill in the Clondalkin area. That has nothing to do with the question.

Mr. Kelly

Would it not be a fair commentary on what the Minister is saying, that he is regarding everybody, the county council on the one hand and the Southern Cross Route Study Group on the other, as having some power of initiative in this matter which he has disclaimed for himself? Will the Minister tell us whether the Minister for Fisheries and Forestry, who attended a meeting on this subject in Ballyroan School just before the last local election, was authorised by the Minister to give a positive confirmation of the election undertaking in regard to this route?

Mr. Barrett

Yes, the Minister discussed it with me beforehand.

Mr. Kelly

Can the people who have been suffering from the situation out there for years take it that every word that Deputy Lenihan said on this occasion was authorised and will be stood over by the Minister here today?

Mr. Barrett

Every word? That is a very broad statement.

Mr. Kelly

Especially from the Minister for Fisheries and Forestry. I know it is a tall order. Is the Minister telling the House that he has not seen a transcript of what the Minister for Fisheries and Forestry said?

Mr. Barrett

I got a transcript of something that was recorded by somebody present at the meeting.

Mr. Kelly

Does the Minister, Deputy Lenihan, deny that was an accurate transcript? Is the Minister putting the accuracy of the transcript in issue now?

Mr. Barrett

I have not given the Minister the opportunity to deny it or otherwise. I can arrange to have it played back to him.

Mr. Kelly

In that case can the Minister tell the House of what value is his assurance that Deputy Lenihan spoke with his authority, if he cannot now be sure of what Deputy Lenihan said?

Mr. Barrett

I can assure the Deputies that I can confirm in writing exactly what the position is. They can be assured that we are in regular consultation with officials of Dublin County Council on this issue and there are no hitches at the present time.

Mr. Kelly

The Minister will recall that this matter did not arise from a proposal by Dublin County Council. It was a positive political commitment to which the leader of his own party gave his personal imprimatur two days before the last General Election. Now we are sheltering behind the county council, a pile of correspondence with the study group and the Lord knows what, anything except building a road which is all the people are interested in.

Mr. Barrett

I have proved that I intend to carry this out by making money available—£1.1 million—and it is my intention to continue to do so. With regard to the undertaking given by the Minister for Fisheries, if it is as I have seen it, then I intend to honour it, as we honour all our commitments.

Mr. Horgan

Is there not a general feeling that the undertaking given by the Minister for Fisheries and Forestry, interesting as it was, was not as good as that given prior to the election?

Mr. Barrett

I do not know about a general feeling.

Mr. Kelly

You might as well try to sink a cork by throwing stones at it as embarrass the Minister for Fisheries and Forestry. Would it interest the Minister to know that last evening as I was driving through my constituency I encountered a German juggernaut jammed at the top of The Rise in Mount Merrion trying to find its way to Castlebar and that the people there have to endure this day in and day out? Many of those residents are suffering as a direct consequence of these road conditions and they told me that this happens ten or 12 times a day.

Mr. Barrett

Maybe it does, but where CPOs for the acquisition of land are concerned, I have to leave that to the local authorities because I am the final arbitrator on CPO hearings. The local authority have advanced so far and I have made money available. I am in continuous touch with local authority officials with a view to making further moneys available in an effort to try to relieve the kind of happening the Deputy refers to.

Mr. Kelly

Would the Minister agree that the processes he is now describing are processes which might have taken place had there never been a political commitment to build this road? A sum of £1.35 million will hardly build any bit of roadway these days and nobody knows that better than the Minister. This road will cost big money. We want the Minister to say if he is going to make that money available.

Mr. Barrett

When the council are ready to spend that money, it will be made available. That is all I can do.

Mr. Kelly

In the light of what the Minister has just said, would he appraise the value of the positive political undertaking given before the last election? If it is all to depend on the county council, might his party not as well have said nothing about it as be fooling the people?

Mr. Barrett

The Deputy must understand that it has to depend to a large extent on the roads authority in any particular area.

Mr. Kelly

No, on the political will.

Mr. Barrett

The fruit of the political will is making money available, which I have done.

Mr. Kelly

The money is being made available at the same rate as for 100 other roads.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Kelly

This is a fraud on the public, just like the ground rents "abolition". It is a fraud comparable only with the ground rents and the "ombudsmouse" Bill.