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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 11 Dec 1979

Vol. 317 No. 7

Nomination of Members of Government.

Pending the making of the necessary legislative and administrative changes, I propose to assign Departments to Ministers as follows: Department of Tourism and Transport, George Colley, who will also be Tánaiste; Department of Foreign Affairs, Brian Lenihan; Department of Defence, Pádraig Faulkner; Department of Industry, Commerce and Energy, Desmond J. O'Malley; Department of Justice, Gerard Collins; Department of Finance, Public Service and Economic Planning and Development, Michael J. O'Kennedy; Department of the Environment, Sylvester Barrett; Department of Labour, Gene Fitzgerald; Department of Education, John Patrick Wilson; Department of Agriculture, Ray MacSharry; Department of the Gaeltacht, Máire Geoghegan-Quinn; Department of Health and Social Welfare, Michael J. Woods; Department of Fisheries and Forestry, Patrick Power; and Department of Posts and Telegraphs, Albert Reynolds.
Those assignments are to some extent temporary, as will be understood from what I have already said. Deputy Colley will, in due course, become the Minister for Energy and Deputy O'Malley will become the Minister for the new Department for Industry and Services. Deputy Reynolds will become the new Minister for Communications. The Government will in due course appoint the necessary number of Ministers of State and I will be informing the Dáil of these appointments when they are made. I also wish to inform the Dáil that I have nominated Anthony James Hederman, SC, for appointment by the President to be the Attorney General.

The Taoiseach is now the Taoiseach and the criticisms of his suitability put before the House by speakers on this side earlier this evening have been clearly stated. It is not my intention to go through them. This Government could be an imaginative Government. It has shortcomings, which I will deal with in the course of my contribution, but it is not a doomsday situation. There are many avenues open to it whereby a completely new society can develop in this island.

What concerns me most about the situation at this stage is that it is really a new captain of the same team bringing on the travelling reserves for the second half. That is just about the sum total of it. I do not have that much confidence in the present administration nor do I see that administration holding the confidence which the previous administration lost in such a short time. That is not without reason. Eighty-four Deputies of the Fianna Fáil Party were elected to this House on the pretence of creating a society which, as the seconder of the motion to appoint Deputy Jack Lynch as Taoiseach two and a half years ago said, was the voice of a risen people. The voice of the risen people has spoken and has stated clearly and without ambiguity that what they promised in 1977 they have not fulfilled. They are there by dishonest promises. I do not believe, with all the respect I have for the former Taoiseach, that he had the right to resign as Taoiseach and not go the full distance, dissolve the Dáil and seek a new mandate. That is what democracy is about. This is not a democratic decision that Dáil Éireann has been asked to endorse. It is a decision based on a political system whereby a Government in office holding the majority of seats can ignore the wishes of the electorate and the wishes of the Opposition and do what they think best, as one Deputy said coming out of the Fianna Fáil meeting, and vote for the retention of their seats. That is a sham democracy. If democracy is what I believe it is, this Government do not have a mandate from the people. I question its being in office at this very moment.

The Taoiseach will run away from the manifesto as if he was never part of it. He can criticise it, as most of us have done. Many people who believed, when they voted for the 84 Fianna Fáil Deputies and the other candidates for the Fianna Fáil Party in the 1977 General Election, that every aspect of the document placed before them for endorsement in the ballot boxes in June 1977 would be implemented and that we were beginning a new era of politics were sadly disillusioned.

The first indication of the loss of confidence by the Government was in the fundamental area of the present Taoiseach's own responsibility as Minister for Health when 3,000 skirts, because that is what they were—petticoats—walked down O'Connell Street. Deputy Haughey did not know how to deal with them. He can handle the minority of Deputies on the Opposition benches because he treats them with contempt. This Parliament ceased to be a Parliament because he ignored our advice and treated us with the utmost contempt and ignored everything we said until 3,000 nurses walked on the streets of Dublin. That very day I said to some of my colleagues that these girls, in their innocence, did not know what they were starting in this part of Ireland, because other people would be following. Within a few weeks PAYE workers came on the streets of Dublin in unprecedented numbers to protest against a Government that came into office by dishonest practice. That is how they are there. That will be seen in the general election and they will be judged by that.

I am not terribly interested in who won the election for leadership of the Fianna Fáil Party or who is elected Taoiseach this evening. A certain amount of attention must be paid to it. As far as I am concerned, I believe they had the privilege of electing the next leader of the Opposition. The quicker they face that reality the sooner the Irish people, North and South of the Border, will realise that we want a Government that will tell us the truth. We want honest leadership, no matter how difficult it is, and we must get it. I am not sure that the Taoiseach will be criticising the manifesto for the reasons which I and other members of my party will be.

The debate on the Taoiseach took place earlier.

I am talking about the Government.

We are dealing with the Members nominated to be in the Government.

To every Deputy sitting on the Government benches, every newly-appointed Minister, and Ministers who have been dropped, we must extend a certain amount of sympathy—sympathy to those who believe in their political convictions and then did not get an opportunity to see them through to their fulfilment. The document which brought the then Taoiseach, Deputy Lynch, into Government in 1977 and which now has given us a new Government is a dishonest one. It promised things which they knew they could not fulfil. I have described it as a corrupt document, because corruption is promising to give someone something so that one can benefit oneself. The only people who benefited by the 1977 manifesto are the Fianna Fáil Deputies and Senators, the Cabinet and junior Ministers.

I turn now to Northern Ireland, which will loom largely on the horizon and which has inspired much public comment in our newspapers since the events of last weekend. I believe that, with all the talk by Fianna Fáil about initiative, a British declaration of intention to withdraw and a British declaration encouraging Irish unity, the first initiative the Taoiseach should take is to teach some of his Deputies the real meaning of republicanism and to understand that Ireland comprises the Irish and not the mythological ideal concept that they have: we are the real republicans. I often heard that from members of Fianna Fáil, from Government Ministers and back bench Deputies in the two by-elections which have helped to bring about a grave situation in this House. I heard Fianna Fáil Deputies saying from platforms that they were the real republicans or, just to change that a little, "We are the super Irish," this group of people whose only claim to power is that some of them were born into Fianna Fáil families and happened to be elected on a Fianna Fáil ticket. That is about their only commitment to the unity of the Irish people.

I hope that when the Taoiseach seriously gets down to talking about the unity of the Irish people he will teach some of the back bench members of his party some manners. Deputy Lynch, I believe, will be best remembered for that; he tried to change the direction of that party and with a great deal of success. It is no secret that although many who are Loyalist in the extreme in Northern Ireland did not like him, to put it mildly, many were saying, "He has a difficult team to handle and he is doing his best." I hope the present Taoiseach will not ignore the direction in which Deputy Lynch was going because from the point of view of concensus politics he was speaking the language of Northern Ireland when he got a chance to speak that language, certainly not very far from the position I hold. There are Members opposite who will vouch for the fact that privately in conversation over the past three or four weeks or months I was saying to them that I agreed with the statements of the Taoiseach.

I do not want to be misunderstood on this issue. I do not want to pay empty tributes to a fallen leader. I have more respect for the man who has just stepped down than to indulge in such an idle exercise. It is more serious than that. As Deputy Cluskey said today, there are 2,000 Irish people dead and over 20,000 maimed and, according to the latest figures I heard, over £200 million worth of damage done in Northern Ireland. There is hate between neighbourhoods which are divided only by a thin line of corrugated iron sheets and in such circumstances I do not believe I would be fulfilling my duty as a public representative by trying to placate or pander to the feelings of some members of the Fianna Fáil Party by paying idle tribute to a fallen leader. That is not my intention.

I want to pay tribute to a man of whom history will record that we were glad to have him as Taoiseach in this part of Ireland in a very difficult period. I mean that because he had difficulties that this party or the Labour Party did not have. He tried to hold his party together. I hope that when the present Taoiseach sits down with the Minister for Foreign Affairs to work out their attitudes on Northern Ireland they will take off the demand republican spectacles some of them are wearing—"We are the real republicans"—because as I see it Unionism will never unite the Northern Ireland people. In the North there are 500,000 who are called Catholics or nationalists or some other name who will never be Unionists and Unionism will never unite them no matter what benefits the British Government may hand to them, no matter what economic advantages there are in living in Northern Ireland, whether it is living in a better house or having more security in a job or better health services; they will never become Unionists. There is a lesson in that for us to indicate that there are one million people north of the Border who will never become republicans. That is a bitter pill for some members of the party opposite to swallow.

I want to share with other people in Ireland the common name of being Irish and Fianna Fáil had better ask themselves if they really believe in the unity of the Irish people. If they ask themselves that question they had better follow it through and say, "If you call yourself Irish" then there are one million people north of the Border who will share that common name with you. If they call themselves "the real republican party", there are one million people in Northern Ireland who will never identify with that.

Whether that is a palatable thing for me to say and for them to hear, whether it is politically advisable to say it, that is as I see it. If we believe in peaceful co-operation, in the reconciliation of Irish people and in taking death off the streets in another part of this island that is not our responsibility, there is an obligation on us to change our attitude. Responsibility for that change in attitude at present rests completely on the desk of the new Taoiseach. While I do not have the authority to say this I think it will follow that if the new Taoiseach were to follow policies conducive to Irish unity, policies that would bring the two traditions of this island together in peaceful co-operation and harmony he would receive the co-operation of this party. I would advocate and strongly recommend that. The history of Irish Ireland did not begin in 1926 in the Rotunda when Fianna Fáil members came together to start a Fianna Fáil Party: nor did it start in 1931 when the Fine Gael Party, the former Cumann na nGaedheal Party, broke with the then Sinn Féin element. Neither did it start in 1916 and we had better cut out the nonsense about patriotic leaders and about having divine rights and divine guidance and inspiration—"We have the message from the Almighty that we and we alone have the answers.". They do not; neither do we, because there are one million people north of the Border who are not listening to that kind of nonsense and it is they alone who hold the key to Irish unity, a staggering thought for those people who thump their chests in graveyards in southern Ireland and make glowing speeches to tombstones. In dealing with this human tragedy in Ireland and in trying to gain consent from his own party—because that is the first thing he must do—the Taoiseach would have won the respect not only of this side of the House but of all the people. May I say something to him directly?

Through the Chair.

Through the Chair may I say that there is nothing personal in this because in 1961 when I was first elected as a Deputy, Deputy Haughey was the first Minister I met. If he cannot remember that visit to his office I remember it very well and we have always been friends since. We never shared the same politics. I have always admired him for certain things, but there is one thing for which I never admired him and that was remaining silent for the past nine years.

We have been debating the appointment of the Taoiseach all day. The motion before the House now deals with a number of names nominated by the Taoiseach for approval by the President to be members of the Government. The Taoiseach is not one of them.

All of us could have remained silent but we did not. Now let us look at the Taoiseach's team. It is just the same old team wearing the same jerseys with the travelling reserves on for the second half——

But winners.

I hope every school child in every secondary school and at third education level notes that remark of the Minister for Education whom the Taoiseach has put back into that Department to run our educational system for the next two and a half years in the most deplorable way that he has conducted that business in the last two and a half years.

(Interruptions.)

I wonder what the Minister is talking about. Is he talking about now or a week ago? A week ago I do not think he could have said that. What have we got now? Nearly all the Ministers have the same portfolio. There has been a shift around between Deputy Colley and Deputy O'Kennedy.

Deputy Barrett is still the Minister for the Environment. I hope that all the homeless in Ireland, particularly in Donegal, are taking consolation from the fact that Deputy Barrett still holds that office. Some of the homes I have been in in the last week are rat infested, insect infested, snail infested——

Are there foxes?

(Interruptions.)

Yes, snails. I have seen them.

(Interruptions.)

Order, please.

It seems a great joke to him but it is very sad that, just one fortnight before Christmas when I talk about the misfortunes of people in County Donegal, the only response I can get from Deputy Power, a newly promoted Minister, is the question "Are there foxes in them?" There may not be foxes but it is a fact that there are people in County Donegal and all over Ireland who are on the housing lists of the local authorities who will never get a local authority house. What happened in County Donegal? Donegal County Council projected 1,000 houses to be built in the next four years and, knowing it would take four years to build 1,000 houses, they applied for one quarter of the money, £2,300,000. What did Deputy Barrett give them? He gave them £250,000. In other words, it will be 40 years before these houses are built. That is the kind of team that Deputy Haughey has brought in to continue the implementation of this mandate given by the people in 1977 saying that a new team led by Jack Lynch would implement this document.

Deputy Collins is still in charge of Justice. I know that Deputy Collins has his heart in the right place. I know that over the last few months he has been trying to come to terms with the increased bank raids, with the increased cross-Border incursions, with the difficult task that goes with being Minister for Justice. I am not going to score points off Deputy Collins at this stage. But we want a better performance in the next two and a half years than we have had from him in the last two and a half years.

I am still making up the ground that the Deputy and his party neglected when they were in office.

(Interruptions.)

The Minister should not lose his cool because a person saddled with the responsibility that he has needs, above all, to be calm and cool. I want to pay the Minister a compliment. He has improved over the last two and a half years. But the improvement is not good enough. There are still too many things to be done in his Department and making local speeches and having his photograph taken at the Garda turnout——

The name of it is Templemore where we train the gardaí that the Coalition Government did not train.

Having his photograph taken in Templemore or with the prison officers in Mountjoy prison is not enough. The Minister will have to do better. As I advocated in many speeches here, if the military believe that an academy is needed to train officers for the Army then equally we should have an academy to train young gardaí to meet the challenge of the life they have chosen.

Deputy G. Fitzgerald is still in charge of Labour. It should go on the record that Deputy L'Estrange described him as the Minister for strikes.

(Interruptions.)

Deputy Lenihan is disappointed that he is not the Tánaiste and, if I know Deputy Lenihan, Deputy Colley had better watch out.

(Interruptions.)

Less interruptions please.

Without being personal, Deputy Fitzgerald must have the most disastrous record of any Minister for Labour. The number of strikes, the amount of unrest, even in the public service, condemns the Minister and his Government. When the time comes for the Taoiseach to decide to go to the country to seek a new mandate I have no doubt that all of those people who, because of Deputy Fitzgerald's inactivity are out of work due to unofficial strikes and pickets will remember Deputy Fitzgerald for that.

The Deputy is good at peddling discontent, and he always was.

Deputy Wilson is one of the people in Government who, because of his calling in life, should be more sensitive to the needs of young people.

I was too late to deal with Deputy Harte's illiteracy.

The Minister is not an ignorant man and he should not make an ignorant remark.

There are some people left behind by the Minister in Donegal who are more illiterate because of his bad teaching.

On behalf of my two sons, I protest.

(Interruptions.)

It is as well that somebody on this side has taken the Minister's part because nobody on the Government side seems to be doing so.

Deputy Harte, without interruption.

The Minister has a job to do. He needs all the good luck, probably a first class miracle, and all the suave beautiful English that he displays in the House. But there are thousands of young children in secondary schools complaining about the lack of facilities; there are thousands of young students in regional technical colleges protesting about the lack of facilities; there are thousands of students in our universities clamouring for better grant assistance. It puzzles me how the Minister for Education, who failed to tackle these things in the last two and a half years, has been allowed to stay in that office. I attended a funeral in Donegal yesterday. I had to leave it sooner than I had intended. One of the people at the funeral was a teacher. He asked me who would be Taoiseach. I told him Deputy Haughey, and he said: "I would put up with him if he would take John Wilson out of Education".

This has been a rather unusual day in the history of Leinster House. Hard things were said, possibly things that needed to be said. Deputy Haughey is now Taoiseach and I wish him well. I wish him all the luck he will need to bring the country back to the position it was in when Fianna Fáil took over two and a half years ago. Deputies referred to the fact that the Government have reached half time, and all the rest of it. We have Deputy Haughey as Taoiseach, as captain with his 14 men, making it a 15-man Gaelic football team. At half time, almost two and a half years after being elected, with two and a half years to go, they were being slaughtered, and for that reason among others, Fianna Fáil decided that the captain, Deputy Jack Lynch, must go to be replaced by Deputy Haughey.

What I find most remarkable is that over the last few days the man who had got the biggest majority ever got by a Taoiseach, the man who got votes from people who would never have voted for Fianna Fáil if it were not for Jack Lynch, was being spoken of like this by Deputies and Senators: "It was not Fianna Fáil that landed us in the terrible trouble we are in, economically and otherwise, it was Jack Lynch". Already he is being sold down the river by the same people who knelt as he passed until two or three days ago.

This is the sort of loyalty the Taoiseach can expect from the men behind him, and I would give him a little more advice than did Deputy Harte. I would advise him to keep his eyes on them and to wear some kind of protection on his back.

The captain of the team was changed and by a rather unusual arrangement the new captain introduced a new team, consisting of nine of the failures in the old team, nine members who had been doing very badly—that may be unfair, but several of them had been doing badly. He brought two of the juniors on and took the others from the back benches. He paraded them in front of this House and said: "Now, look what I have got. This is the team who will run the country for the next two and a half years and they will win the next election". That is what we were told on the radio this evening by some of the back benchers.

We have before us tonight a group most of whom are decent people. From my experience of 25 years in this House I can say that most Deputies have been decent men and women. Having said that, it is fair to point out that the activities of the members of this Government have not been up to what one would expect from any Minister of any Government. We have had the Taoiseach juggling around, taking a square peg out of an oblong hole in which it did not fit and putting it into a round hole.

That will not improve the situation. We have too many of those in this Government. We have members who have been abject failures. The Taoiseach is a very intelligent man who knows what is happening and he must have heard the talk, he must have seen for himself that some of those in the previous Cabinet were a complete disaster. I do not know how on earth the Taoiseach expects to be able to run the country as it should be run with this array of talent he has got.

I do not want to be personal. I do not want to get into an argument with anybody across the floor of the House, because that sort of thing does not help. However, it is only right to point out that there are Departments of State which have not been doing their jobs. During my period as Minister I found out two things pretty quickly. The two things a Minister requires is, first of all, to know his Department. He must be able to control his Department. He must not stay at home playing golf or riding a horse or dashing around the country doing something else. If he is a Minister, he must be in his Department seeing that the job is done. He should not claim the kudos any civil servants get and blame the civil servants if they fail. It is his job and not that of anybody else. I should like to tell the Taoiseach that there are a few of his team who need a few lessons in that regard.

A Minister also needs to know the kind of cash the Department will require and he or she must be able to get that money if at all possible. One of the biggest problems the present Taoiseach will have is extreme difficulty to get the Minister for Finance—the new Minister takes over a Department which is new to him and a budget in the main prepared by the outgoing Minister with the help of his colleagues—to say whether the type of money required will be available. This is not a happy augury for the future of the country.

I have said that I do not want to be personal, but I wish to point out that there are a number of Departments in that position. I was in the Department of Local Government. Its name was changed to the Department of the Environment, but its drive was also changed. I have the greatest respect personally for the present Minister, but when I go around the country and find that local authorities who were building 100 to 150 houses two-and-a-half years ago are in 1979 getting enough money to build only 50 houses, I know something is wrong with the Department. I am telling the present holder of the office that it is his job to ensure that that position will be improved.

Deputy Harte was right a few moments ago when he said that thousands of people, thousands of families throughout the country, have not a hope of ever having homes of their own unless the stewards give a lead. In the past two-and-a-half years that lead has not been given. Dublin Corporation need 6,000 houses, and we know why. The money is not being made available and everybody will have to put the screws on the Minister for Finance to find that money. What has that Minister been doing? The Government have been borrowing so much that it is almost impossible for them to borrow any more without putting on taxation to pay for it. We are all adults and we know we cannot buy something unless we have the money to pay for it. Services cannot be provided without the money being available.

We can go back to the Fianna Fáil manifesto, which, in my opinion, created all this trouble. The manifesto contained a large number of lavish promises, things that were to be done, to use the former Taoiseach's word, "immediately". On television the night before the last general election he was to remove the unemployment queues immediately. Everything was to be done immediately. What have we got? We have one Minister looking at another anxious to get his job because it cannot be any worse than the one he is in, and it might be a little better.

All this creates a difficult problem. We have labour troubles. I was a trade union official for 30 years and therefore I know from the Government side and the trade union official side what makes that section tick. It is not good enough for Ministers to keep their heads down when there are widespread strikes and stoppages of work in the country in the hope that something will happen which will help to clear them up. At present thousands of people are trudging backwards and forwards to and from work because there is no means of public transport. I would be the first to say that the situation where people go on unofficial strike is wrong. Employers as well as trade unionists will have to be a lot more careful and intent on reaching agreement in order to prevent this rash of unofficial strikes in which, after all, fellow-workers of the strikers are the first people to suffer. The Minister responsible for the Department in which the strike occurs and the Minister for Labour each has the onus on him to do everything that he can possibly do to clear up a strike and bring about a resumption of work. Deputy Fitzgerald will forgive me if I say to him that whilst he commented here tonight on Paddy Harte's suggestion that he has not the solution——

When Deputy Fitzgerald was in Opposition, at every opportunity on which a possible criticism could be made of the former Government the person to be sent in here to make that criticism was Deputy Gene Fitzgerald.

The criticisms were always constructive.

I never heard Deputy Fitzgerald make a constructive comment in this House during the years that he was in Opposition. He was the little terrier who came in in order to cause as much annoyance as he could and he talked about peddling gloom. He was the one person who could be depended upon to peddle gloom here. No matter how good things were he was the person to pour cold water on them. I do not want to develop into the type of Opposition Deputy that Deputy Fitzgerald was because I am not peddling gloom tonight for the purpose of doing so. I am telling the Taoiseach that he has a tough job before him and he has not improved his position by messing around with some of the people who did not do well in the previous team, instead of attempting to start with a completely new team. Therefore, it is nobody's fault but his own if it blows back in his face.

I would be less than human if I did not say that I am glad to see at least one of the previous team disappearing. I compliment the Deputy who is taking over as Minister for Defence. Deputy Faulkner is a decent man, whilst he has been a disaster in the Ministries he has held up to now. At the same time he will be an improvement—he must be an improvement—in the Department of Defence. The mere fact that he was not doing a good job does not mean that he is not a decent man. He is, and it is grand to see him in there and I wish him well now. At least the post will not be several weeks late and we will not be looking to see if Deputy Faulkner is around and may be going to Dublin and will bring the letters with him.

The Taoiseach has taken on a few new Ministers and I am sure there will be some changes and surprises in his appointments of Ministers of State. He must know that one of the toughest jobs is Health and Social Welfare. I have met the new Minister for Health and Social Welfare, Deputy Woods, only since I came into this House. I have had one or two contacts with him and I have found him extremely courteous. It does not one bit of harm to a Minister to be courteous. Incidentally, I pay that tribute also to the Tánaiste because, although I disagree with him on many things, he has been courteous to me and to everybody else who to my knowledge has approached him. Such things are appreciated. After all, if you are being refused something, at least it is pleasant to be told so in a nice way rather than in the way in which some of the former Ministers were inclined to pass the information along.

I tell the new Minister for Health and Social Welfare that it might be a good idea to re-issue some instructions to the Departments. I do not know whether Deputy Haughey as Minister knew of this or was responsible for doing it, but one thing I dislike is making representations for somebody who needs something badly, and I do not really care if I get a reply from the Department saying that the thing had been done but what I resent is finding that some of my colleagues have got a reply telling them that the thing was done, and then a month or six weeks afterwards a letter comes to me saying that this is something which it is thought should not be done by any Government Department. During my period in the Custom House I insisted that everybody who wrote a letter to that Department, whether it be a crackpot or otherwise, should get initially an acknowledgement and eventually exactly the same reply as if they were members of the Government or the Opposition. Everybody should receive a proper reply. I understand that a list has been drawn up of who should and should not get a reply. This is wrong for any Government. This is the sort of thing which does no good to any of us. When we are in Opposition we can feel the effects of this and when we are in Government at least we should be big enough to ensure that it does not happen to those who are then in Opposition. The wheels move round and now they are moving and not as slowly as some people may think.

The new Government should decide on things that need to be done and they must get their priorities right. I was a little surprised to find that one thing which seemed to have high priority under the previous Taoiseach—although he admitted afterwards that he himself never expected to avail of it—was a Taoiseach's residence which would cost something around £6 million. That is not a priority for any Government in the present situation of this country. With the thousands of people looking for council houses and for loans and grants, nobody should spend £6 million on a residence for the Taoiseach, the President or anybody else. This matter should be looked at. Also when we took office a few years ago we found that an executive jet was being bought which would cost £1 million. We decided that we would not buy it. The present Government decided that they would change the situation and that they would buy it. But there were no gold taps in the £1 million model so they bought a £2 million model, or at least they ordered it. I say to the Taoiseach that there is plenty of transport between here and Europe without spending £2 million at present on something like that. If somebody has to go from here with a group of officials to any place in Europe where normal jet transport will be going, surely it would be possible for the same cost if not less—ultimately over a 12-month period most certainly at less cost—to transport them by that means. These are the sort of things which the people are talking about. There are those who do not like to say in this House that it is wrong to do this or right to do that. I say to the new Government with all the sincerity that I can muster that it is their job to try to ensure that the priorities which the Government have are the right priorities and that while we have the number of people who are unemployed at present, the number of people who are sick and the number of old age pensioners many of whom have not got even their arrears of pension for many months, it is wrong for any Government to decide to spend £6 million on what I can only call a luxury. Maybe I am old-fashioned.

Deputy Harte referred to Northern Ireland. We have a new Minister for Foreign Affairs whose responsibility will be to negotiate. Deputy Lenihan and I have been friends for many years, but perhaps he should remember that this is not a fruitless thing where one can say something today, something different tomorrow and something different again the next day and get away with it. During the fisheries negotiations we had the most amazing jumping around with words by Deputy Lenihan. It was impossible to know from day to day whether he was being misquoted.

It was incredible that any responsible Minister would have been saying what he was quoted as saying then. However, Deputy Lenihan may have got away with that but the country cannot afford a Minister who would continue to act in that way. Therefore, Deputy Lenihan must pay much more attention to facts. At present there are three different schools of thought in the country in regard to the Six Counties. There are the people who believe that something will happen eventually which will bring the troubles to an end while there are those who believe that those engaged in the troubles should be forced to stop their activities but attempts in this regard are creating more trouble than would be the case if the situation were ignored.

There are the third group—the group into which I would hope the Government and the House would fit—the people who would attempt to assist on the road towards solving the Six Counties' problem. There are times when I am annoyed to hear people who live far enough from the Six Counties not to know what is happening there, talk as if they were referring to something that is happening thousands of miles away. The Border is less than 30 miles from where I live. I have seen enough of it. Since my childhood I have been going across that Border and I know the misery that is being caused by certain people down there but the situation is not being helped by statements made sometimes by some Members of this House. I heard the Taoiseach say that he condemned the Provisional IRA and everything they stood for but he must prove that that is what he means. However, we must condemn also those on the other side of the fence—the people who claim to be supporting the union with Britain and who are every bit as damaging and as dangerous as are the Provisional IRA. We must condemn, too, the certain amount of abuse there is on the part of the British Army in the Six Counties and also on the part of the police and prison officers there who, I suppose being human, tend to react in a way which does not help in regard to the unity of the country.

We must all realise that what is required here and elsewhere is respect for the right of people to live and enjoy their lives wherever they are. As I have said before publicly, all the troubles in the Six Counties are not worth the spilling of one drop of human blood because in years to come there will not be anybody to thank those who are responsible for what is happening now. There will not be anybody to thank the Taoiseach or his Government for becoming involved with people who may be of the opinion now that they have an ally in Government Buildings and that all they need do is to continue to carry on in a way which most of us, including, I am sure, the present Government, will not stand for.

We have a new Government. This morning during a debate that was acrimonious there were some statements made which were hurtful but since then the House has voted and decided on who is to be the Taoiseach. We are a democracy and, consequently, we abide by that decision. However, I am not satisfied that many of the people whom the Taoiseach has chosen to form the Cabinet are people who will be successful in their respective offices. But that is not my responsibility, it is a matter for the Taoiseach. I shall be very interested in hearing the names that are pulled out of the hat for the second string because in time it is likely that they, too, will be looking forward to stepping into the positions in which their seniors are now. Regardless of what may be said here in the heat of the debate or of what may be said outside the House, it is the responsibility of all Irishmen and particularly those who are Members of the Oireachtas to try to ensure that this country is taken out of the disgraceful position in which it is now and that, going into the eighties, there is a prospect of improvement. Undoubtedly, 1979 has been a bad year for everyone except, perhaps, Charles Haughey.

I think it was the new Taoiseach who referred to the fact that he would be forming a reformed Government but in the list of names he has put before us this evening I find included in that team ten of the same tired old faces that we have been facing across the floor for the past two-and-a-half years. There are included also three of the former junior Ministers and two new Ministers, Deputies Power and Reynolds. I am not in a position to comment on the abilities of the last mention two because I have not had the privilege of hearing them in the House since Fianna Fáil's return to power. Consequently, I must reserve judgment on them. Since so many of the same faces are being retained, it is worth putting on record that all of these have a responsibility for the infamous manifesto which was the means of Fianna Fáil winning the election in 1977 but what is even worse, they have responsibility for the chaotic condition of the country today.

I know that the manifesto is old hat, that people are fed up hearing about it. Indeed, there are many in Fianna Fáil who are totally sick of any mention of that document and who would like to forget it. However, we must bear in mind that it is only on the basis of that manifesto that we can get an idea of the policies which the Government may be implementing in the future. Clearly, most of the promises of the manifesto have not been implemented and it is on that basis rather than on the personalities of the proposed members of the Government that I shall speak.

There was a clear commitment in the manifesto to concentrate on getting the wheels of the economy moving again and on keeping it that way. There was a commitment to create new jobs and opportunities, to develop existing employment and to provide security and stability for those who have suffered most from inflation—the housewife, the elderly and those on fixed incomes. If we examine the economic record of the Government to date, the record of the people we are asked to endorse as members of the Cabinet, we find that in this year we have borrowed £1,000 million, half of it from abroad, and most disturbing of all is the fact that it is not for capital purposes. Our external payments deficit has increased from £165 million to £650 million while our external reserves have fallen by 40 per cent from £1,250 million to £750 million. Largely as a result of the policies of the Coalition Government the inflation rate was brought down to 6 per cent in 1977. I want to be fair about this matter and I admit that there were some contributory factors in the early days of 1977 when Fianna Fáil came back to power. According to the latest estimates from the Central Bank and the ESRI, the inflation rate will be 15 or 16 per cent in the current year. The growth rate has dropped from 6½ per cent to 2½ per cent, again according to the forecasts I mentioned.

That is the chaotic economic situation existing today. What must be clearly on the record so far as the reformed Government are concerned is that essentially they are the same men who have created this record today. It is on that basis we must judge whether they are worthy and merit the support of this House to continue in government at all.

Again, there was a commitment in the manifesto that there would be a programme of specific policies on which the legislation and reform of the next Government would be based. Even then we had the word "reform"— a word we are now hearing once again. It would be fair to ask, is this the policy of the reformed Fianna Fáil Government because clearly the commitment to provide specific policies, legislation and reforms to implement the various aspects of the manifesto have not been provided in the past two-and-a-half years? Let us have it put on the table if there is now to be an admission that this cannot be done, that there is to be a new direction in the affairs of the nation. Pending that, I have no option but to judge this new collection of names on their record to date, a record for which they have been responsible.

It is on that basis one must raise the questions about the commitments made in regard to the multitudinous aspects of the manifesto. There was the "Buy Irish" campaign that was going to switch 3p in the £ to Irish goods. There were promises on prices but it is clear from the inflation rate that not only were these promises not kept but they were reversed. There was the infamous scheme which was supposed to lead to the aboliton of ground rents; there were the promises in regard to family law tribunals; there were various promises in the law reform area; there were promises in regard to the 50-mile limit and many more. These promises were the basis on which Fianna Fáil came to power and are the basis on which they remain in power. They have not been kept and it is on that record and on those non-achievements that we have to judge the collection of names put before us for our approval and confidence.

While I am dealing with the Fianna Fáil manifesto I should like to refer to one other promise and to draw this to the attention of the new Taoiseach. I should like him to make a note of this because I think the House is entitled now to a specific reply. There was a promise in the manifesto to set up an independent electoral commission to deal with constituency boundaries and put an end to all charges of gerrymandering. I do not know if the Taoiseach will speak in this debate. If he does I should like him to deal with that specific point in his contribution or, if not then, at the earliest possible date. Will he confirm the specific and clear commitment given in the Fianna Fáil document of 1977 that there would be an independent electoral commission to deal with constituency boundaries to end all charges of gerrymandering? I shall await the reply of the Taoiseach to my question.

We have to judge these people whose names have been put before this House on the basis of their participation in the preparation of that manifesto and on the state of the nation today. In recounting their record, are we now to believe that from some untapped source, from some deep spring sunk in the depths of the Fianna Fáil Party, there is to be a new inspiration for these people? I look on all of them as human beings. The sins of the past weigh heavily on them. I am prepared to give them a chance to mend their ways but I can only judge them on the basis of their past record.

This country has enormous problems, very many of them created by the Fianna Fáil Government who were elected in 1977. Unfortunately, it is clear that many of the options that would otherwise be open have been narrowed by the profligate, and in many cases not very sensible, manner in which Ministers have exercised their powers. It is in the interests of the country that these problems be resolutely tackled and resolved. For that purpose we need a united Government and this is another factor which, even if there were nothing else, would give rise to very considerable hesitation on my part in voting confidence in this regime. It is clear that despite the needs of this country now for a united Government they are divided in a most fundamental way. In fact, they are divided in far more respects than would be the case with a normal Government and Opposition. This goes to the manner of selection of the new Cabinet. Can we fairly say that this Government were chosen on the basis of merit only? Was that the criterion which motivated the selection of this new Government? It is clear to me this was not so. I may be paying an unexpected tribute to some of the disappointed backbenchers but it is clear to me that this was not the criterion on which this Government were selected. It was stitched and patched together and can now be compared to a patchwork quilt.

In the selection of this Government the record of the retained Ministers does not appear to have been considered. The overall talent that lies within the Fianna Fáil Party—one has to be honest about this matter and say that there is a lot of talent in that party—was not considered when putting down this list of names before the House. When one looks at it it is clear that there were two overriding factors. The first was the promotion of known supporters within the Fianna Fáil Party. The second was an attempt to win over the internal opposition in Fianna Fáil. Those factors concern me because the Opposition want to see the best done for this country. Therefore, it seriously concerns me that we should have before us tonight a list of names selected on that basis. It appears that the needs of Fianna Fáil were uppermost in the preparation of this list of names. I do not say that the needs of the country were entirely neglected but I do say that it is clear from the composition of the new Cabinet that the needs of Fianna Fáil were uppermost.

Therefore, we end up with a divided Cabinet that is facing the enormous problems of the eighties and I fear for this country facing that prospect. I believe that the problems which I mentioned can be resolved with resolution, with a degree of initiative on the part of the new Cabinet provided they work together, provided they work individually and provided they produce the results which have been so sadly lacking over the last two-and-a-half years.

We have difficulties in regard to industrial relations which have been a disaster since 1977. I see that the outgoing Minister who presided over that disaster is expected to reverse that serious problem. His record to date does not give me any confidence that he will be able to reverse the frightful trend that has developed over the last few years, resulting in the loss of more man hours in 1979 than for a combination of previous years. It is clear that there must be action in this area, not insensitive heavy-handed action but action that is going to be based on a proper industrial relations policy.

Action is needed in regard to prices. It is very easy for people to throw up their hands and say, "Nothing can be done; everything is going to go up day by day". However, after the calamity of the oil crisis the previous Government were able to reduce inflation so that in 1977 it was down to 6 per cent. It has climbed again into double figures and is now up to 15 per cent or 16 per cent. The point I want to make is that it can be done. I am putting it to the new Government that it must be done.

There are problems in many other areas. In regard to taxes there is a feeling of injustice on the part of the PAYE sector and there is a feeling of injustice on the part of the farmers. I hope that the new Taoiseach, being a city man, will not forget that there is a deep-seated feeling of injustice. When he is dealing with the 187,000 farmers, I hope he will not have them sitting down in the street in front of his office. I hope he remembers that the majority of those farmers are small farmers and that the policy of loading levies on to their creamery cheques, irrespective of whether they come near the taxable bracket, is not justice.

There are other problems but my basic message is that all these problems can be resolved by an imaginative approach. The first priority of this Government must be to get down to tackling the problems. There are problems in regard to the frightful traffic chaos in our towns and cities. There are problems in regard to social welfare. A breakdown in the system resulted in long delays in the issuing of social welfare cheques to certain categories. This was a serious matter to the recipients who were awaiting their cheques. Inside an office in a Government block it does not matter whether cheques are delayed for a week or a month, but if one is sitting in a cold room with little food, one is waiting for the postman's knock. That problem can be tackled. It must be a priority of the new Government. It can be dealt with by the simple process of reducing the bureaucratic steps in that area and getting more efficiency into the Department.

The new Government are well aware of the problem in regard to housing. It is of concern that this area has not received any funds of any consequence in recent years if one takes into account the extra cost of housing and the rate of inflation. One must look at the number of houses built, particularly those for the weaker sections of our community. There has been a significant reduction in local authority housing.

All these problems can be resolved. This is a good country, a strong country and it can, with resolution, be brought back from the edge of the precipice to which it has been driven by the present Government since 1977. It can be rescued from the depths of the virtual depression into which it has sunk. Nothing very radical is needed to do it except a bit of vision, a bit of initiative and a bit of hard work. It may be too much to hope that the new administration will undertake this task with great resolution when one bears in mind that those who created this mess are not suited to the task of cleaning it up.

It is clear that the original team which ran the country was not competent. The public, as far as they had a chance, made a decision on that team in the Cork by-elections. That decision amounted to a yellow card for the entire team; they were put on a warning that their performance was not good enough. While I can point out to the reformed team what can be done, I cannot expect with any great confidence that they will be able to tackle those problems. The reformed team is going into action without any popular mandate. The team which was rejected in the Cork by-elections has been reshuffled but is, essentially, the same. We do not know whether the manifesto has been jettisoned or rejigged, but we have a new leader and a reformed team. I do not know whether we have a reformed leader, but his reformed team does not have a popular mandate. We must remember that the 1977 election was fought on the basis of a manifesto which referred to a vision and a strategy for national reconstruction. The manifesto stated:

It has been carefully put together and costed for implementation in government by a new team under Jack Lynch as Taoiseach.

The reformed team is not under Deputy Jack Lynch. It is under a new leader and the decent thing for him to do is to go to the country and get a popular mandate. I am making that suggestion in a serious manner. The electorate should be given an opportunity to decide what they feel the country needs by way of leadership. It is my belief that if the people were given that opportunity they would go for a reformed Government, an open Government and one that would be totally reformed in the true sense of the word. They would go for a Government of new ideas and idealism, a Government of vision led by Deputy Garret FitzGerald.

Not another Coalition?

Hope springs eternal.

One coalition in the House is sufficient. In indicating why I cannot propose confidence in the reformed team I hope I have done so without casting any personal aspersions on any Members. They are all decent people. However, basically this is the team that has led the country to the state it is in. The team has a new Minister for Foreign Affairs, who has gone from the 50-mile limit which the Government firmly believed in, and it has a new Minister for Defence, who moves from Posts and Telegraphs—I hope he does not cause a strike in the Army. In general we have the same faces with a few additions. In the interest of the country they have my good wishes. I hope they do a good job but I fear, on the basis of their record to date, that they will not do so. In the unlikely event that they will do a good job, they have my best wishes.

It is regrettable that this is a one-side debate because two important motions are before the House, the nomination of the Taoiseach and the appointment of members of his Government. It is usual in this Chamber to get two points of view, that put forward by a Government and that from the Opposition parties. It must seem surprising to those watching the proceedings from the Public Gallery that this has turned out to be a one-sided debate. The responsibility for that rests with the Government. We have not heard any speakers offering to defend the Taoiseach or his appointments. That is a peculiar situation. A total of 66 Deputies were not nominated as Ministers and one would expect that during the course of the debate on the appointment of the new Government some of them would indicate the alleged advantages of the Government we have had to date.

I am pleased, to use racing jargon, that Charlie is in the winning enclosure and I wish him well. We must accept that he has been democratically appointed by the votes of Members of his party. I wish Deputy Lynch and his wife many years to enjoy their retirement. The decision of the Fianna Fáil Party also means that we have a new Taoiseach who will remain in office until the next general election. I do not think the sky will fall from the heavens by virtue of Deputy Haughey's appointment. He has qualities of leadership and I hope he will make a good leader of the Government and the Irish nation.

Whatever we may say about our personal political affiliations, the nation is above us all and we like to see in control of Government a man who has the qualifications for that high office. Deputy Haughey has a great deal of qualifications and, in my view, he is possibly more suited to the office than any other Member of the Fianna Fáil Party. That is not a conclusion I reached in the past few days or years but is one formed since Deputy Haughey first entered this House.

I was anticipating taking a look at what happened at the Fianna Fáil Party Selection conference, that we would have a different type of Government nominated by Deputy Haughey here today. This was a great exercise in democracy. As I see it, here is what happened: it appears from what information we could assimilate and from newspapers reports that the other contestant, Deputy Colley, had almost the entire Government and Cabinet supporting him. That was indeed a big start.

Sorry, Deputy, but this is not relevant.

It is quite relevant.

It is not. It is going back on the debate that finished at 7 o'clock this evening.

It is relevant to Motion No. 5 on today's Order Paper.

Deputy Murphy, please.

The Deputy is saying nice things about the Taoiseach.

We are now debating the Cabinet. Please Deputy.

We are nominating members of the Cabinet and I am addressing myself to that question.

We are not debating the appointment of the Taoiseach, only his Cabinet.

It has a direct bearing on the Cabinet.

Deputy Murphy, we will not discuss the appointment of the Taoiseach now. We are debating his Cabinet, and nothing else, on this motion. We have debated the other motion all day.

With respect to you, Sir, I am debating how this change came about, how we are debating——

The Deputy will not do that, please.

——the appointment of the present Ministers. I hold that it is completely relevant. I have just as much knowledge of procedure in this House as you, Sir, with all due respect.

Will the Deputy please obey the Chair? The Deputy can debate the Cabinet and its members but may not discuss the appointment of the Taoiseach.

With all due respect to you, Sir——

The Deputy should not start on the Chair.

——it is quite relevant to the discussion of item No. 5 on the Order Paper. Now, Sir, with your indulgence I shall proceed. I shall come at it another way now, Sir, in order to measure up to your requirements.

We had the peculiar situation that the Government which was elected in 1977, supposedly to advance and promote the interests of our nation and its people, two-and-a-half years afterwards could not satisfy their own Members in this House. It is quite clear to us on this side of the House, as I am sure it is also to those on the other side, that this change was brought about mainly by nonmembers of the Government or by those usually known as backbenchers Therefore, it is clear to me that the Government in office did not satisfy their own back-benchers because, had they done so, it would not be Deputy Haughey who would be appointed Taoiseach here today but Deputy Colley. I think that is quite relevant to this discussion.

The Chair must repeat that the appointment of the Taoiseach is not relevant to this discussion.

The appointment of the members of the Government——

——is relevant, but the appointment of the Taoiseach is not.

I have said that the outgoing Government did not satisfy Fianna Fáil Deputies in this House. If they did not satisfy Fianna Fáil Deputies, surely it is difficult to expect that they satisfied the nation as a whole. That is a fair observation to make.

Having been appointed Taoiseach, having assumed the task of nominating members of the Government, I thought that the axe would have come down much harder than it did, that, as mentioned by previous speakers, we would have had many new members on the team. It was quite evident that many people within Fianna Fáil, particularly Members of this House, were not satisfied with the old team. What has happened? It is quite clear that most members of the Government have been reappointed by Deputy Haughey as Taoiseach. He has not effected the big change many of us anticipated. I do not know the reason. Possibly the Taoiseach will tell us when he is making his first announcement as head of the Government.

The first item missing from this new Government is the cornerstone of the previous one, or what we used to know as the cornerstone. I refer to Deputy Martin O'Donoghue. When we were in office, the former Taoiseach and his Ministers, who were then front bench members of the Opposition, had established what is known as the "think tank". The manager of that "think tank" was known to us then as Professor Martin O'Donoghue. He was the man who had the cure for all our economic ills. He was the man who produced the manifesto that did so well in returning 84 Deputies to this House at the last general election. He was the man who formulated policies in the economic and development fields that would provide additional employment for our people.

We accepted that Deputy O'Donoghue was the cornerstone. He was the man on whom Deputy Lynch built the former Government. It was his thinking and planning and the coordination of effort he was supposed to bring about among all members of the Government that would make this country an exceptionally prosperous one. The clear evidence that that policy has failed is before us in this House today by the absence of the nomination of Deputy O'Donoghue, the former Minister for Economic Planning and Development, as a member of the Cabinet. There is evidence also that the Taoiseach now accepts that the policy propounded in the 1977 General Election was not a sound one. He has abolished that policy by the removal of Deputy O'Donoghue from membership of the Government. We are all aware of the gimmickry—here I would include the Taoiseach and senior Ministers then in opposition—during the term of office of the National Coalition, when every available opportunity was seized to create, as far as they possibly could, an atmosphere of gloom and despair throughout this country, when they told us they had cures for all our ills.

We were told in the manifesto that when they got back into power people would not have to pay rates on their houses and would not have to pay tax on their cars. It was implied that farmers would have it much easier so far as taxation was concerned and that the PAYE contributors would have a much lighter burden to bear. What has happened two-and-a-half years later? We have had squabbling within Fianna Fáil since the wind started to blow in January, the wind which turned into gale force around them and continued until now when the former Taoiseach could bear the burden no longer and retired.

We know that the former Taoiseach retired within his own party. It was not because the Labour Party or the Fine Gael Party made life more difficult for him, something every Taoiseach has to bear from an Opposition. The greatest opposition to the former Taoiseach in regard to his policies came from members of Fianna Fáil who were anxious to get rid of him.

Did we expect that in 1977, when the Government came along with their rosy speeches about how they could reduce unemployment? The Minister for the Environment, Deputy Barrett, for whom I have great respect, has failed in his job because sufficient money was not provided for him by the former Minister for Finance. Any Minister for the Environment has a great problem with regard to house building. The cost of building a house has now gone beyond the reach of the ordinary worker, whether he is self-employed or otherwise. The average cost of house building is continuously escalating and now it has gone beyond the reach of the ordinary man in the street. This means that there is a very heavy demand on local authorities to provide houses for people who cannot provide their own. People are now getting married at a much younger age and it is impossible for local authorities throughout the country to meet the demands on them.

The Minister for the Environment received a deputation from Cork County Council (West) quite recently and he gave us a very courteous hearing. We went to see him because the total sum allocated by the Government for Cork County Council (West) in 1979 was £190,000 or enough to build only ten or 11 houses. Those are the kind of problems which have arisen after two-and-a-half years of Fianna Fáil Government, but there are many more.

I am a believer in private enterprise. I like to see people who start a business making progress. We know the burden that public enterprise is on the State. We know what CIE and all the other State bodies have to get. The large injections of State money which they have to get year after year are a great burden on taxpayers. It does not matter whether the industry expands in those State enterprises because all the people involved are sure of their wages and salaries because John Citizen must make up any shortfall there is in such an industry. I always have great respect for people who try to promote employment for people in their areas. This year, particularly during the past five or six months, has been a very difficult year for such people. Government policies over that period are responsible for this. We had a credit squeeze during that time. Some of those people are almost crushed out of existence because of the attitude of our banks. I was a defender of the banking system. There were views expressed, particularly by my party, that banking should be nationalised. I was not a believer in that. However, I am not a believer in the way our banks are treating honest creditworthy people at the moment. The handy excuse they give is that the Government, through the Central Bank, prevent them from increasing people's overdrafts. They tell such people that they are precluded from making more money available for the continuance of the work of those people even though the banks agree that such people are creditworthy.

I have confidence in the new Taoiseach, who understands the financial world reasonably well. He has moved up the ladder. I believe that what a man can do for himself he can also do for the nation. I believe in ambitious people having control of things. I believe that the Taoiseach has confidence, that he can do a good job as head of the Government. I applaud that kind of confidence. I believe that if a person does not feel equal to a job he should not look for it. The Taoiseach has aspired to this job. He had enough fight and he is now, to use a term well known to him, in the winner's enclosure.

The Taoiseach in his statement today changed the Finance Ministry. I appeal to him as Taoiseach and to the new Minister for Finance to take some steps to modify the credit squeeze which is creating so much hardship for so many small industries and making it so difficult for farmers and others who borrowed money from the banks in the hope that they would get a reasonable time to repay it. That kind of policy by a group who have a monopoly is wrong. The Taoiseach should address himself to that matter, which must be dealt with without delay. We have been told that the banks made more money available in loans this year and last year and that it was mandatory on the Government to instruct the Central Bank to instruct the commercial banks to push people to repay loans which they had and on which they were paying large sums in interest. Many of these people are paying interest at more than 20 per cent to commerical banks. It is common knowledge that a number of our banks own subsidiary firms, all of which charge high rates of more than 20 per cent, as, indeed, do the banks in many cases. I ask the Taoiseach and his Minister for Finance to address themselves at the earliest possible date, to this question. I do not like to see people going out of business, or banks treating them as they are treating them at present, ignoring appeals for leniency or appeals to stay their hand. Any group with a monopoly of banking business has no right to treat the Irish public in such a manner.

The most important industry so far as Ireland is concerned is agriculture. I am very dissatisfied with the attitude and actions of the former Minister for Agriculture, Deputy Gibbons. I raised in the Dáil with Deputy Gibbons, a number of items affecting the farming community, without getting much sympathy from him. I hope that Deputy MacSharry, the new Minister for Agriculture, will not take a leaf out of Deputy Gibbons's book but, to use the term applied to the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy, Deputy O'Malley, will be his own man.

Ministers become stale and adamant and know too much for the ordinary man in the street. They are inclined to become dictatorial; that is possibly why you have the backbenchers of old within the Fianna Fáil Party—because of the dictatorial nature of some of the Ministers. Farming is not doing well this year and the small farmers are finding great difficulty in making ends meet, with increasing costs of input and reducing rates of output. Farming is our most important industry and I hope the head of the Government and the new Minister for Agriculture will address themselves to this question. I do not want to be too specific on the agricultural position in a debate on the appointment of Ministers but I would ask the Taoiseach, who was formerly a Minister for Agriculture, to take a personal interest in this very important industry. Before I leave that point, some of the help this Government got in the last election was due to the implied statements at many of their churchgate performances that, once Fianna Fáil were back in office, the taxation of farmers would disappear. That was said in west Cork and, I am sure, in other centres. Many unsuspecting farmers believed those statements, swallowed the Fianna Fáil bait and, as a result, helped to boost the Fianna Fáil majority in the election. We all know what has happened since, so far as that particular bait is concerned.

Fisheries used to be tied in with Agriculture, before we had an independent ministry. Has the Taoiseach addressed himself to the question of Fisheries in the appointment? He has appointed a new man, Deputy Power. I do not wish to reflect in any way on Deputy Power in his capacity as a Minister of the Government, but it is peculiar that, at a time when so much depends on the development of our fishing industry, a Deputy from an inland constituency and, as far as we know, with no experience in that field, is appointed Minister for Fisheries. When the Taoiseach was in opposition he addressed himself in a big way to the fisheries question. We all know his statements and those of many of the Government about what would happen so far as fisheries were concerned if and when Fianna Fáil came to power. The present Taoiseach made a positive statement, with no ambiguity about it—no ifs, ands or buts—if Fianna Fáil got into power they would get the 50-mile exclusive limit for our Irish fisheries. He was backed up by the senior counsel, Deputy O'Kennedy, the former Minister for Foreign Affairs and now Minister for Finance. Is that so, or is it not? The answer is that it is so. This was one of the gimmicks in relation to what was then a very emotive and very important subject. It is quite true that the present Taoiseach played his own part in propounding that—you will bear with me if I call it a confounded lie or an untruth——

Substitute a word for it and I shall accept it. This is part and parcel of how the present Government got into office. In the National Coalition Government we had, in my view, a most capable Minister in charge of labour affairs, a man who understood labour affairs and who intervened very frequently, when necessary, in any disputes that arose. This man was the subject of criticism in this House, particularly by the Deputy who has replaced him, the former Minister for Labour who is now, to the surprise of the country the present Minister of Labour.

What has happened so far as labour affairs are concerned? Every group is complaining. This morning in Dublin there were no buses. People had to make their way on foot, or get alternative transport. A few weeks ago, it was the banks. A few weeks before that it was the electricity board. Next week it will be somebody else. There is a continuous run of industrial unrest all over this country and it is crippling the country; there is no doubt about that. A strong, competent, efficient man is needed to deal with such unrest and, without reflecting on Deputy Fitzgerald—a fellow Corkman—to my mind, he has not measured up to the requirements of that office. In the Taoiseach's opinion he has lived up to it, otherwise he would not have been reappointed. What does the Taoiseach expect the Minister for Labour to do in the future that he was incapable of or unable to do in the past? What will the Minister do to put buses back on the road, to ensure that electricity supplies are not cut off and to ensure that the many other upheavals will cease? The Minister will not do that job. No matter what the causes, industrial unrest is crippling the country. A large number of man days are lost in employment at a time when we can ill afford such losses. This morning I had some hope, when Deputy Haughey was nominated as Taoiseach that we would have a change in the Department of Labour. The people are crying out for a change and I thought we would have a new incumbent who would be fresh on the job, and if he could not do better it would be very difficult for him to do worse.

The next thing that the Government were going to redress, according to the manifesto and according to the 1977 election promises, was inflation and rising prices. Leaflets were handed out at polling stations and on street corners prior to the election telling us how the price of bread, sugar and so on had increased. Coming up to the 1977 election people were worried about increased prices and the Fianna Fáil Party cashed in on that worry and said to the people "Give us a chance, remove those fellows from office, let us in and we will arrest this inflation and will ensure that prices will be kept at a level that your pockets can afford". There is no need for me to say what happened in regard to prices. Ordinary household goods have increased in price beyond measure. Clothing and footwear and all the essentials have increased in price by 60 or 70 per cent since this Government came to office. So far as that Department are concerned, we have had no change.

The Deputy is now proceeding to take each Department in turn.

I am entitled to do so.

It is not in order in this debate. It is in order to make a general statement on the Cabinet, but the Deputy may not discuss each Department in turn. It is not in order and it is completely contrary to the rulings of the Chair.

With all due respect, I have a document here which reads:

That Dáil Éireann approve the nomination by the Taoiseach of the following Members for appointment by the President to be members of the Government

and 14 names are mentioned on this document.

Deputy Murphy should not argue with the Chair. The Chair said that it is not in order on this debate to take each Department one by one and debate it. It is a general debate on the Government as a whole. That is the ruling of the House all down the years.

I beg to differ, although I do not like differing with the Chair. I have been here for some time——

Deputy Murphy should not argue with the Chair or dispute the rulings of the Chair. The Chair is correct in this ruling. It has been given umpteen times in this House.

It has not, because it is not too frequently that we have motions on the nomination of a Government.

Deputy Murphy will make a general statement on the appointment of the Cabinet but will not take each Department in turn, and he should please obey the Chair.

With due respect, I understood that it was appropriate for Deputies to comment on any appointment or on all appointments.

It is proper to comment in a general way on the whole Cabinet but not to take each Department and debate it one after another. That is not in order.

On a point of order, is it not in order to comment on the suitability of individual persons to be appointed to certain posts?

It is a general debate on the Cabinet and it is not in order to take each Department one after another and debate it. It is a general statement on the Cabinet as a whole.

On another point of order, how can one discuss a general statement on the Cabinet without referring to the individuals who comprise the Cabinet?

The Chair has not said that Deputies are not entitled to refer to the individuals. The Chair said that the Deputy cannot debate each Department in turn, and that is what is happening. The Chair must be obeyed on this.

Agreeing to the Chair's ruling I shall continue to make a few more general remarks.

That is completely in order.

We must relate the nominations by the Taoiseach to the nominations made in 1977. I and previous speakers were surprised that the Taoiseach did not wield his axe much more harshly and that instead of getting new blood into the Cabinet, which I am sure most of the people who voted for him had anticipated, he made only four changes in the Cabinet. It is worth repeating that when the nominations came forward for discussion in 1977 we were told that the cornerstone of that Cabinet was Deputy O'Donoghue, the former Minister for Economic Planning and Development. During the last election campaign Fianna Fáil said to the people "Keep your rates; we do not want them". They told people with large houses in Dublin with more than £100 valuations that if they voted for Fianna Fáil there would be no need to pay the Dublin Corporation or the Dublin County Council £1,200 or £1,300 a year for the houses. The people in the country were told that if they voted for Fianna Fáil they would not have to pay car tax and could use the money in whatever way they liked and that they would get on without it. Have you got on without it? Did we hear rumblings from Deputy O'Malley during the past three or four weeks? He retained his portfolio. The axe did not fall on him and for that he should be grateful. Now he may have to put back the car tax. What is the Taoiseach's view on that?

I wanted to mention car tax because it was offered as a "goody". During my time in this House, since 1951, at no time up to 1977 did any Deputy ask that car tax be abolished. This "goody" took the Irish people by surprise, especially the young people who had cars. This "goody" was offered to catch votes. I am afraid that when the next budget is framed this Government will find hidden ways to extract money from car owners. At present the tax on cars assembled in Ireland is, on average, 29 per cent, and it is possibly more on imported cars. This is a formidable tax. Motorists should realise that not only do they pay the Government a heavy premium on petrol, but on a car costing £4,000 they pay a tax of £1,000.

We are a democratic country nominating a Government. We know from the Government figures that the Taoiseach's proposal will be approved. I am very disappointed that, with two exceptions, the same people are in the Government. I wish the two new members well in their Departments. It is not to anybody's advantage if this country goes down. That is one thing I despised about Fianna Fáil. When the Coalition were in office some of them took particular pleasure in any problems that confronted the Government. That is not a patriotic outlook. We all want to see our country improving. We want to see our people satisfied, whether they be old or young, the self-employed or those on the PAYE system, employers or employees. We want to see the national loaf shared as equitably as possible.

I want to reaffirm my belief that the present Taoiseach could be capable of handling the affairs of the country well, leaving aside the gimmickry he took part in when the Coalition were in power and which helped him get where he is today. He is the man democratically elected. He was elected by the votes of Deputies. Whoever gets the most votes gets the job but in this case there was the added bonus that it carried with it nomination as Taoiseach. I wish the Taoiseach, Deputy Haughey, well. However long this Government lasts I hope he will have a successful term of office. In the early days of his reign I hope he gets the co-operation of the people and that those engaged in industrial disputes, and the self-employed who seem to be dissatisfied, will give him a few months to rectify the situation.

I accept it is exceptionally difficult for a Taoiseach, at a time when there is so much unrest, to take the strong stand he should. As a Member of the Opposition I appeal to everybody inside and outside this House, to give the Taoiseach and his Government a chance to try to get this country off the ground and to rectify the ills and problems which exist, some of which were possibly of our own making.

I wish the Taoiseach well and want to add my congratulations to Deputy Power on being made a Minister, and to the other Ministers and hope their term will be successful and fruitful for the country.

Ba mhaith liom comhgháirdeas a dhéanamh leis an Taoiseach agus na hAirí nua agus do na sean Airí atá ceaptha san Rialtas nua. Go speisialta, déanaim comhgháirdeas le Aire na Gaeltachta, an céad bhean Aire ó Countess Markievicz. Freisin, déanaim comhbhrón leis na Teachtaí atá imithe as an Rialtas. Tá súil agam nach ndéanfaidh an Taoiseach nua dearmad ar an teanga, mar níor chualamar fós focal ón Taoiseach san chéad teanga oifigiúil.

I should like to congratulate the Taoiseach, the new Ministers and those who have been reappointed. I should like especially to congratulate Deputy Máire Geoghegan-Quinn on her appointment as a full Cabinet Minister, the first woman since Countess Markievicz and only the second in the history of the State. It would be true to say that she is effectively the first woman Cabinet Minister we have had. I express my condolences and sympathy to those who have lost their positions in the Government. At least some of them did not deserve it.

I listened to the Taoiseach's press conference and have read avidly everything he has said since he was elected leader of Fianna Fáil last Friday. He has dwelt on many subjects and issues but it would seem that the second great aim of Fianna Fáil, the revival of the Irish language, has been forgotten. I hope the Taoiseach has not forgotten that. I should like to take this opportunity to congratulate Deputy Gene Fitzgerald on his reappointment as Minister for Labour. As his shadow in the House I have to say that he has been much less effective than he might be but industrial relations is not the sole responsibility of the Minister for Labour. The last Government as a whole would have to take a major share of the blame for the postal strike and that goes for the new Taoiseach as well. It is not only the Government that are to blame although they contributed in no small way.

It is very sad and very wrong that there are no Government contributors to this debate as it was very wrong that there were no Government contributors to the earlier debate on the nomination of the Taoiseach. The impression was reported in this evening's Evening Press that there was a filibuster by the Opposition because they sought to comment for six short hours on the nomination of the Taoiseach. This hand over was the most traumatic since the hand over by W.T. Cosgrave to Eamon de Valera. Six short hours were described by the Evening Press as a filibuster mainly because there were no Government contributors. I do not want it reported in tomorrow's papers that this was a filibuster. The Opposition have a duty to say what they think ought to be said as have the Government and backbenchers.

A lot of hard things were said today which unfortunately had to be said. I am glad that I was not one of the Deputies called on to say them. Now that they have been said I hope that the Taoiseach lives up fully to the expectation which I and many people have that he will solve the other problems and prove all the fears that abound in the country wrong. He is capable of doing so. There are many fears and we hope he proves them unfounded. There are many people in the House, and I am one of them, who believe that the Taoiseach is a man of great skill, competence and civility. I hope he can bring all his skills—I am sure he will—to meet the great challenges that face this great country of ours. The Taoiseach and the Government have no mandate. I say that conscious of the fact—is that in order?

It is in order at this stage to say that the Government have no mandate but we are not discussing the Taoiseach now.

The Government have no mandate.

We have seven dozen seats.

Seven dozen Jack Lynch seats. They are not Charlie Haughey seats, remember that. The Deputy is one of them.

Perhaps that was the time the Deputy had confidence in Deputy Cosgrave.

Deputy Mitchell and Minister, we will not discuss the seven dozen seats or anything else.

He is not a Minister yet.

That is a rather technical point.

Deputy Power is coming in and doing his maiden heckling. I wish to congratulate both Deputies Power and Reynolds. Both of them are gentlemen and I am sure will behave like gentlemen. There are great challenges facing the country and great prizes to be won if they are overcome. We have, as leader of the Government, as we have as leader of the Opposition men capable of tackling and overcoming these problems. However, the Government have no mandate to do anything. This is a central point. Deputy Haughey as Taoiseach and the Government will have a honeymoon of a few months. They are entitled to that. There are 84 Deputies most of whom are highly nervous. It is the same nervousness which has overthrown Deputy Lynch as Taoiseach. They will continue to be highly nervous until there is a general election. The Taoiseach and the Government have no right, as Deputy Lynch had, to expect the loyalty of the backbenchers because the nomination and the appointment of the Government and the circumstances which brought it about have been a lesson in disloyalty. The new Taoiseach will operate under a bigger disability than the previous Taoiseach because, unlike the previous Government, they have not been given a mandate from the people. They are not entitled to expect the loyalty of the backbenchers as Deputy Lynch was and did not get. Moreover, when the Ministers of State are appointed tomorrow more people on those benches will be disappointed than there were last week. Disappointment at lack of promotion is one of the main factors which contributed to the downfall of Deputy Lynch. Half the party will be in rebellion and who is to say to them "stop"? The Taoiseach and the Government cannot expect them to stop when the Government was brought about by disloyalty and rebellion.

I say these things to indicate by belief that the momentum for a general election has begun. As the present Taoiseach's father-in-law said, once the momentum of a general election has begun it is irreversible. We might as well face up to that fact. I predict that we will have a general election within a few months.

The Chair would prefer if the Deputy would talk about the Cabinet rather than make predictions.

The Deputy should give us the weather forecast while he is at it.

The weather forecast has nothing to do with it either.

I will give a strike forecast and some facts and figures about what has been happening.

As usual the Deputy will not have a solution.

One area where we will have continuity is in strikes. We have Deputy Fitzgerald still.

Deputy Mitchell on the Cabinet without interruption. We will forget about predictions and so on.

The Chair knows his form.

He thinks he is Charles Mitchell.

Charles Mitchell is not a Member of the House.

I am entitled to speculate about how long the proposed Government will last. I am putting forward the argument that it will not last long. That is one good reason to question whether or not this House should agree to the nomination of these Ministers. I am putting forward the argument that the Government (a) lack the mandate and (b) do not deserve the loyalty not only of this House but of their own back benchers because of the way they came into office. I now predict that there will be a general election in the first part of next year; this Government will not last. Also, that will be a convenient way for the new Taoiseach to evade and avoid whatever promises were made to those serried ranks behind him. However, we must look forward tonight, for Ireland more than most is a country of the future. A bigger percentage of our population, than in any other western country, is youth. We have a burgeoning youth population. We must plan the future for them, create the opportunities they deserve and face the challenge that the need for those opportunities creates. We often crib about this or that and I think most of our people think we are a poor country. We are not a poor country; we are one of the 20 richest countries in the world and I would hazard a guess that we are probably one of the five most materialistic countries in the world. If ever values were counted in money terms in any country they are so counted in this country at this time.

Rightly or wrongly I must say that the Fianna Fáil Party perceived that at the last election and articulated that materialism in a very enticing manifesto which created euphoric expectations which could not be fulfilled. Frustration of those expectations is the immediate cause of many of our problems that this Government will have to face. But the root cause is a materialist one, counting everything in money terms. I was very glad to hear the Taoiseach at his press conference emphasise culture so much. If the Taoiseach and the Government lead us away from the materialism of recent years it will be a great service to the country. But it is not really a strong card of the Taoiseach or the Government. To begin with, they were all members of the party that produced that manifesto even though some of my colleagues have said that manifesto is burned, destroyed and abandoned just as Deputy O'Donoghue is, just as we predicted that he would be two-and a-half years ago. The manifesto is dead. The Government are not in a strong position to ask the people not to be materialist or to ask for restraint. The Taoiseach more than most is not in a good position to ask anybody for restraint. This very materialism is at the base of our dreadful industrial relations.

Last week I asked the number of mandays lost through industrial disputes for the ten worst years previous to this. The Minister very courteously gave me the man-days lost since records began in 1923. In the first nine months of this year we had already exceeded in mandays lost every one of those years except 1937. If you extrapolate the nine months figures to annual figures you find that we are heading for the worst ever year in industrial relations, one of the conspicious failures of the Government of which the Taoiseach was a member, one of the most conspicuous failures in an area to which we now find the same Minister nominated.

I think that is reasonable. I expressed the hope here last week that he would be reappointed because it would be unfair that Deputy Gene Fitzgerald should be burdened with all the blame for industrial relations policy. He has a certain responsibility; he has not been to date an effective Minister but he must not be made a scapegoat for a situation for which he alone was not responsible. First, much of the industrial relations area was taken from him. The negotiations regarding the national understanding went to the Minister for Economic Planning and Development. I hope that in the rearranged functions that function will go back to the Department of Labour. The Minister for Labour was denuded of that role which I think is vital to the preservation of industrial peace. He was not a leading Government figure dealing with the national understanding. Breaches of the national understanding and of previous national agreements are one of the principal causes of our industrial relations turmoil. So, the reappointment or nomination of Deputy Fitzgerald as Minister for Labour with added responsibility for the public service is not something that I would complain about overmuch. But I should like the Taoiseach, as a member of the previous Government to accept some of the blame himself. I hope he is as good as his word at the press conference that he is going to do something about industrial relations.

As spokesman for the main Opposition, on a number of occasions in this House and again last week—and indeed also outside the House—I invited the Minister for Labour to seek the political consensus which I believe exists to deal with unofficial disputes and some other industrial relations problems. I repeat that invitation tonight to the new Taoiseach because I believe that a political consensus does exist on a certain course of action. I cannot see why the Minister has not up to now taken up my invitation. I think it is a generous invitation because if the Government can solve the industrial relations problem, the kudos will be all theirs, not mine or the Labour Party's.

We do that on this side of the House because we believe that the national interest comes first and not party interests. We believe that the national interest would be better served if a climate and framework were created in which the solution of industrial disputes was more likely and the occurrence of industrial disputes less likely. We make this offer because we believe it is only in a prolonged period of industrial peace that we can meet the challenge and avail of the opportunities that are there to provide fully for our massive youth population. Having got that political consensus which I believe exists the Minister should then seek the consensus outside this House which I believe also exists.

That brings me to the question of the Commission on Industrial Relations. Since July congress members have been absent from the commission table. The commission has gone ahead without them. I cannot envisage any worse scenario for a report of the Commission on Industrial Relations. It seems that any report emanating from a one-sided commission is destined to be rejected. The Government can do only one of two things and they must do it now, this week and that is get congress back to the commission or abandon the commission.

For two and a half years we have been fobbed off in this House with the answer that the Commission on Industrial Relations is examining the matter. This same commission was first announced in this House in October 1977. It took seven months, from May 1978, to appoint that commission after the most unbelievable mishandling of the appointment of a chairman: Senator Brian Hillery was nominated, without prior consultation, to be chairman of the commission and his appointment had to be withdrawn because at least one of the partners objected. One of the basic rules of industrial relations, as anyone with an elementary knowledge of the subject knows, is that there has to be prior consultation. But here, a chairman of this Commission on Industrial Relations is nominated without consultation and has to be withdrawn to the great embarrassment of Professor Hillery which he did not deserve because he is a competent and a good man. That was a bad start.

That was seven months after the Minister told me in this House that there would be a commission. It hardly met until October 1978. We had been promised an interim report by Christmas 1978. Now it is Christmas 1979 and there is no interim report and there is not going to be an interim report. But we are told there will be a final report next July. It will be a final report without the consent or the contribution of the trade union movement. Is it not obvious that the commission's report was doomed to failure from last July onwards? I say again, abandon the commission if congress cannot be got back to it immediately.

The Taoiseach promised at his press conference last week that one of the major tasks of the Government would be to solve the industrial relations problem. There is no doubt that it is one of the great problems facing our country. There is a popular misconception that the trade unions have too much power, that they are too strong. Many people believe that, not only in the country but in the cities as well. That is one of the great misconceptions. The problem here is that the trade union movement is too weak to enforce discipline, to give the level of service its members expect and require. Any action the Government takes should not be anti-trade union, anti-worker, and it should not be perceived to be so. This House needs to aid and abet the official trade union movement, to strengthen it. I believe it would be one of the best ways of reducing the level of unofficial disputes.

Let me repeat again that we on this side of the House unreservedly condemn unofficial disputes. We fully support the right of trade unions and workers to strike in a democratic way but we are totally and unreservedly opposed to unofficial strikes. In 1906 the Parliament of the United Kingdom at Westminster enacted the Trade Disputes Act which was very necessary at that time. In 1921 this part of our country became independent. That Act has remained unamended although it is amended in Britain. At the time that Act was described as a pickets charter, not an altogether inaccurate description. If it was a case, as it was in Britain, of simply amending that Act to remove legal protection from unofficial disputes we could proceed to do it.

Debate adjourned.
The Dáil adjourned at 10 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 12 December 1979.
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