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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 26 Mar 1980

Vol. 319 No. 4

Adjournment Debate. - School Certificate Examinations.

This morning I sought permission to raise on the Adjournment the following matter: the effects of Rule 10 (2) of the Department's rules and programme for the day national certificate examination. This must be one of these occasions when the Minister comes in wondering what the question is all about. I asked for permission to raise this matter because I believe the major effects of the rule in question to be twofold, that in both cases they are bad and that something should be done about changing them. I intend to illustrate my point by quoting from the rules and from a number of Dáil questions that were answered by the Minister within the past few days. Rule 10 (2) provides that in Irish one-third of the marks are allocated to an oral test and that two-thirds are allocated to a written test, that a candidate will be required to obtain at least 30 per cent in the oral test to qualify for an overall grade of D in the subject or for a higher grade and that a candidate who obtains less than 30 per cent in the oral test will not be awarded a grade in the subject irrespective of the marks obtained in the written test.

The effect of this rule can be stated simply. It is that regardless of how well a candidate fares in the written section of the examination, he will not receive any grade unless he achieves at least 30 per cent in the oral part of the examination. On 25 March I asked the Minister for Education if he would give details of the system used for marking the group certificate examination in Irish, both oral and written. In his reply the Minister informed me that:

In Irish one-third of the marks is allotted to one oral test and two-thirds to a written test. A candidate is required to obtain at least 30 per cent in the oral test to qualify for an overall grade of D in the subject or for a higher grade; a candidate who obtains less than 30 per cent in the oral test is not awarded a grade in the subject; irrespective of the marks obtained in the written test. The detailed instructions to markers of the written test and to the examiners in the oral test are confidential.

On the same day I asked the Minister for details of the number of students who took the group certificate examination in Irish last year but who were not awarded any grade. He told me that 12,422 candidates sat for the day vocational group examination in 1979 and that of these 831 were not awarded any grade. When we look at the marking schemes for this examination we discover that no grade is awarded to a student whose percentage range for the examination is less than 10 per cent and that no grade is awarded either to a student who may have got 40, 50 or 60 per cent in the written section of this examination but who has failed to get at least 30 per cent in the oral part of the examination. It is not clear from the reply given by the Minister—though this is for the obvious reason that I did not frame the question in that way—as to how many of the students who were not awarded any grade in Irish in the group certificate examination met this fate because of their failure in the oral section of the examination or how many were in this position simply because they failed the examination as a whole, getting less than 10 per cent in both oral and written combined. It is fair to assume that anybody who got less than 10 per cent in the written part of the examination would not do well either in the oral part.

The significance of this is that failure in this one part of the subject can mean that a student who is otherwise perhaps quite good at the language will fail to get a grade at all. The consequence of this for students who sit for this examination especially can be very serious because they are required to have, for apprenticeships, a certain number of subjects. Therefore it follows logically that if they fail to get a minimum of 30 per cent at the oral part of this examination, whatever chance they may have of getting Irish as a subject for their group certificate, for apprenticeship purposes, has been totally obliterated. I would argue that this is, firstly, unfair and, secondly, anti-educational. It is unfair in the sense that it discriminates against group certificate pupils in a situation in which, for instance, intermediate certificate pupils do not have the same restrictions placed on them by way of an oral examination. In relation to oral examinations in general I would be at one with the Minister on their importance, in relation to spoken languages generally and to the Irish language in particular. But I feel that to carry it to this length, at a time when the essential Irish requirement has been abolished by and large from the examination system, is a relic of the past at which we should look again.

I have said also that I regard it as being, to some extent, anti-educational, and more particularly anti-Irish because if we want to encourage the spread and growth of the Irish language; if we want to encourage the study of the Irish language in our schools in general, and in our vocational schools in particular—which are the schools most closely affected by this—we should not be maintaining in force a regulation which, in the way in which it is being administered, will tend to suggest to pupils that if they have the option between Irish and another subject, they would be safer choosing the other subject rather than Irish. I know the Minister, and indeed the Minister of State, would not want this to happen but I put it to him that the objective way in which the system is working makes it far more likely that this will happen than that it will not. In a non-party way—because the Irish requirement generally was removed under the last administration, and I suspect that this was simply an oversight at the time—I would ask the Minister to reexamine the situation with a view to its discriminatory effect and the possible bad effects it has on the degree to which students in our vocational schools, studying for group examination cer tificates in particular will be encouraged to take Irish as a subject. This is without prejudice to the overall importance of the oral language in examinations. Indeed I would accept that the number of pupils who fail to get a grade because of the failure to get a minimum of 30 per cent at the oral is probably fairly small. But that, in a sense, sharpens the point I am making. I would appeal to the Minister to reconsider the situation, to adopt an attitude, and to redraft the rule so that pupils for this examination will be awarded a grade on the basis of their real marks in that examination, however apportioned between oral and written, but not on the basis that they absolutely have to achieve a certain level in either part of the examination.

I listened with interest to the case made by Deputy Horgan. I am glad that he clarified it because he himself anticipated that there might be some anxiety here as to what precisely he had in mind in connection with the oral Irish.

With the permission of the Chair I shall give very quickly the background to it and then perhaps add a comment or two. Since the day vocational courses and group certificate examinations were instituted it has been Departmental policy that an emphasis be placed on teaching Irish as a spoken language. To this end syllabuses were constructed, conditions were devised and teachers trained with a view to ensuring that oral Irish should form an integral part of the content of the language lesson. Nobody was allowed teach Irish without being equipped with a teastas timire Gaeilge. On the course leading to this diploma the method of teaching spoken Irish and comhrá formed an important part. These conditions were designed to ensure that students who sat for examinations in Irish had every chance of adequate preparation in the oral as well as the written elements. For the record I should say that anybody who has an arts degree which includes the subject Irish is also qualified to teach Irish in a vocational school.

Before 1966 the relationship between marks awarded for oral and written Irish in the group certificate examination was 40:60 respectively. Since 1967 the ratio has been 1:2; that is, 100 marks maximum for the oral test against 200 maximum in the written. It was thought highly advisable to include a proviso in the conditions for awarding marks to show that a serious attitude was adopted towards the test in oral Irish. Directives and instructions have been prepared and issued to teachers explaining the width and content of the field to be covered and the criteria by which marks were to be allotted. Candidates are not examined by their own teachers. CEOs arrange to exchange teachers between schools. No teacher is accepted as an examiner without having full qualifications. It is thought that 30 per cent is not an unreasonable line of demarcation between pass and fail. If some form of sanction were not introduced it would be possible to certify a candidate as having some knowledge of Irish without him or her having reached any standard whatsoever in oral proficiency.

It happens in the intermediate certificate examination.

Before these conditions were issued it was thought advisable to consult experienced members of the teaching profession. No criticism or complaints have been expressed concerning the conditions by teachers.

If this sanction were removed it would follow that teachers would incline towards a grammatical translation method which would lean heavily on written questions and the method of answering these on the paper. This would not be in accord with Government policy to foster spoken Irish in the schools situation.

I appreciate that Deputy Horgan, as is his custom, is concerned not merely with the maintenance of a status quo but also with examining every possible area in order to ascertain if there is any injustice being done to any one student. That is a great aim and objective but I was very happy—and here I speak with some little experience of the teaching of Irish in vocational schools—that the system allowed me to part with the old emphasis on the modh coinniollach, tuiseal ginideach, the preparation of bun abhairs and poems which meant often that a person could qualify in the subject without necessarily having any proficiency. I think Deputy Horgan will accept that what we should be doing in our schools at that level is continuing the emphasis on the spoken word. As one of the examiners in that particular oral examination, I would say that too much stress was never laid on the grammatical correctness of a candidate; if he or she were able to convey their thoughts, albeit in rather imperfect Irish, if they could communicate at all, generally speaking, from my experience, examiners were very sympathetic. While I agree with Deputy Horgan that we must always be mindful that we do not even appear to cause any injustice to a candidate, I should like to hear him, at some future date, on how we could re-arrange what is there, so that these examinations, especially those in respect of the Irish language, are not akin to what obtained when I was at school with the subject of Latin, when there was this grammatical emphasis.

Irish is not a dead language and we want it to be a spoken language. In those circumstances the requirement of 30 per cent for somebody who has come from the national school, who has been for two or perhaps three years in the vocational school, is not being unreasonable and is in accord with what we would wish to do for the language.

The Dáil adjourned at 9 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 27 March 1980.

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