Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 7 May 1980

Vol. 320 No. 6

Adjournment Debate. - Grant Applications.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan-Monaghan): Today I had the following question on the Order Paper:

To ask the Minister for the Environment if some grant applications to reduce dependence on oil and for insulation of houses caught in postal delays in January have been refused on the grounds that they were not received in time, if he wil accept these applications. as having been received within the prescribed time and if he will make a statement on the matter.

I was dissatisfied with the replay of the Minister of State. He appeared to be saying he was giving the matter consideration—I think he used the phrase "sympathetic consideration"— but I could not get an assurance from him that if he was satisfied that the applications had been posted in time to be delivered in the ordinary course of post before 1 February that he would accept them. He said he would give me no such assurance and for that reason I sought permission to raise the matter on the adjournment.

During the exchanges today the Minister of State said on a number of occasions that during the period of office of the coalition Government they and the Minister for Local Government cut off the Grants without any notice whatever whereas he had given a week's notice. I want to put on record that the national Coalition Government did not cut off any home improvement grants or reconstruction grants. The Minister for' Local Government quite sensibly imposed a means test— I think it was a PLV means test of £10—and if it had been allowed to remain it would have covered all the the applications for reconstruction and improvement grants. Here the Minister for the Environment cut off all applications with the exception of very limited grants for disabíed persons and he did it on one week's notice.

It was done in a time of postal difficulties. I do not have to remind Members that there have been postal difficulties for months and we must have the worst postal service in Europe at the moment. Having made inquiries I am satisfied that many people posted thier applicationn froms on or beforee 28 January in good time to reach the Department of the Environment if the Postal services had been working properly. I do not think an application for a grant can do any more about posting his application in good time than by handing it in a post office under the control of the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs. By doing that he has done all that can be expected of him and if his application is not delivered in time he is not at fault and should not be penalised.

What I and the people on whose behalf I am speaking want is not sympathetic consideration from the Minster. Al thee people concerned want their legal rights. They want their grants processed and paid in due course and they want an assurance from the MInister that if they can satisfy an impartial tribunal that ficient time to have them delivered to the Department of the Environment by 1 February that the grants wil be paid. I regret that there is Departmental coufusion at present and there has been for some time past. It takes up to a week to have a letter delivered when it should be delivered the day after it is posted, Even in the Minister's Department there is confusion. The housing section of the Department was closed to the public for a couple of months. They would not transact business with citizens personally and refused to accept telephone calls from the public. I want an assurance that these people will ger their money from the Department and that there will be no question of treating them unfairly.

Mr. Pattison

The Minister is a reasonable and realistic man and I hope he will take a reasonable and realistic view of the problem. At the time of the announcement a number of people had but those who did posted them back within the timee linit. Many of these have received notice that their applications were not received in time even though they should have been received in time if normal postal services were operating. On Thursday 31 January I personally delivered an application form into O'Connell Bridge House, but that appli cant received after 1 February the application could not be considered. I can remember that incident will. The applicant came to me on a Wednesday night and I informed him that I would be coming to Dublin the next day and would personaly deliver the application. How can it be said that this form was received after 1 February? That is just one example that I can stand over. I appeal to the Minister to have a realistic look at the situation because obviously mistakes have been made and there have been some undue postal delays. It is unjust to inform applicants whose applications were late through no fault of their own that their applications cannot be considered.

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment (Mr. Connolly)

One has to admire the tremendous facility with which Deputies opposite Switch on their crocodile tears at the plight of per sons whose applications for house improvement grants were late. They forget all too readily that when the Coalition Government were in office they imposed a drastic means test overnight, thus severely restricting eligibility for both the new house and the reconstruction grant. Is it Fine Gael policy to have a means test for al grants? It would be interesting to know because at times it is hard to know what their policy is. Because of the means text many people who had entered into commitments which would incur heavy expenditure suddenly found themselves debarred from these grants. We published a notice in all the papers setting a time linit for applications arriving in the Department. In regard to the case Deputy pattison mentioned if he give me the name and address of the person concerned it will have my personal attention.

Neither Deputy Fitzpatrick nor Deputy O'Leary, Who had a lot to say on this issue today, wept at the plight of those unfortunate people who were debarred on the introduction of the means test. In our case anybody who had entered into a contract before 21 January last is eligible subject to the usual guidelines laid down for the grants. We did not shut these people out. There is a year's applications in my Department at the moment.

Deputy Fitzpatrick referred to the closure of my office. The office was closed to the public until 14 April and it has been open to the public since then.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan-Monaghan): Hear, hear, big deal.

Mr. Connolly

We have been handling the situation very well, and I thank the staff on O'Connell Bridge Housed for their courtesy and the manner in which they meet the public on this issue. Deputies opposite had the gall to say that we are unjust in allowing only two weeks in which people who had entered into commitments could apply for these grants. This assertion must be considered in the context of the 45,000 applications submitted in good time between 21 January and 1 February for the grants. If we had allowed a period of ten weeks innstead of two there would still be people whose applications would be marginally late and they would blame somebody. However, I am looking into the situation to determine whether or not there is genuine hardship to any appreciable extent, and I wil advise my Minister of my considered views on the matter very shortly. Further than that I am not prepared to go.

Members of the Opposition have been crying crocodile tears, but there were no crocodile tears when the Coalition Government were on Office when they introduced one of the most cumbersome means tests. I have files over in the Department now, and even the county councils would not certify the income. I refused to deal with them because no one would certify wages. I will make a decision with my Minister on this shortly.

The Dáil at 9 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 8 May 1980.