Vol. 321 No. 3
asked the Minister for the Environment if he has received any statistics from the Garda Síochána indicating that a number of persons who acquired full driving licences under his decision of October 1979 to grant such licences to holders of a second current provisional licence have been involved in serious and fatal car accidents and, if so, if he will make a statement on the matter.
24.
asked the Minister for the Environment if his attention has been drawn to the view within certain motor insurance companies that the Government decision of October 1979 to grant full licences to holders of a second current provisional driving licence has led to an increase in motor vehicle accidents involving such persons and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle to take Questions Nos. 23 and 24 together.
I have received no such statistics. The Federation of Insurers in Ireland recently expressed the view that the "amnesty" in respect of the driving test could lead at some stage to an increase in accidents, but I am not aware of any factual support for such a view.
Is the Minister aware that there are indications available even from cursory accident reports that some persons who failed driving tests repeatedly but who subsequently acquired, under the notorious decision of the Minister last October, which was a criminally irresponsible decision——
A question please, Deputy.
Such people have been involved in fatal and serious accidents and this appalling situation was a direct cause of that decision.
The increase in the number of accidents was 350. The road accidents were ordinary crash and other minor accidents which were reported. The increase in the number of vehicles on the road is not high.
Could the Minister indicate, having regard to the notice with which this question was given, if he has any specific statistics in relation to fatal accidents involving people who came under the amnesty in October in relation to car licences?
In 1979-1980, 275; 1978-1979, 286. It was down by 11.
Perhaps the Minister did not hear my question.
The Deputy is talking about fatal accidents.
I am asking does the Minister have in his brief information that will answer the question: of the number of fatal accidents that have occurred since last October, how many involved people who got a licence under the amnesty in October 1979?
No, I do not. If the Deputy puts down a question about it I will let him have the information.
On a point of order, can I read the question on the Order Paper?
No. The Minister has answered the question. The Deputy can ask a supplementary.
The Minister is inviting me to put down a question and I submit that the question is on the Order Paper, No. 23.
I am calling question No. 25.
This is a most serious matter and there are serious questions arising from it. I exempt the Minister of State from any implied criticism in this regard. It arose from a panicstricken piece of utter irresponsibility on the part of the Minister for the Environment.
A question, Deputy.
It was criminally irresponsible.
Perhaps it was but we cannot have statements at Question Time.
If I could be helpful, accident statistics for the six-month period October 1979 to March 1980 compare favourably with those for the same period in 1978 and 1979.
Can I try and be helpful?
A final supplementary. We cannot spend all day on this.
I do not wish to be destructive or personal with the Minister.
I accept that.
If the Minister does not have the information we can get it again, but I want to know if he has information about the number of people who died in fatal accidents in the six-month period going back to last October 1979 or the most convenient period from that date and how many of these people obtained a driving licence under the amnesty of 1979?
I do not have that information.
I am entitled to ask two questions——
This is to be the final supplementary.
Through the Chair, may I implore the Minister to contact the motor vehicle insurance companies in this country who will readily provide him with the most horrifying data——
The Deputy is making a statement.
——which indicates that the people who obtained these licences——
The Deputy is giving information instead of seeking it.
The Minister will not give the information.
Will the Minister get this information because it is in the national interest that we should have it?
I gave a reply saying that the accident statistics for the six-month period October 1979 to March 1980 compared favourably with those for the same period in 1978 and 1979.
I wish to be emphatic about this. There are people driving around the country having failed driving tests eight, nine or ten times——
Again the Deputy is making a statement. This is Question Time.
They have caused accidents, have been involved in them and some, to my knowledge, have been involved in fatal accidents.
The Minister will answer Question No. 25.
I wish to bring it to the notice of the Minister.
That is all right but not at Question Time.
On a point of order——
I have called Question No. 25.
I drive a car and do not want to meet one of them.
I should like to have a direction from the Chair in the following regard. Can I ask the Minister if Deputy Desmond and I put down the text of Question No. 23 again will he obtain information for us, since he does not have it? That is not his fault. I want the Chair's ruling whether we can put down the text of Question No. 25.
The Deputy cannot repeat the same Questions.
That is what I am coming to.
The Minister has invited a different Question on it.
Can the record show that the Minister, for whatever reason, cannot provide the statistics requested.
The Deputy made that statement.
If you rule, as the Chair in this democratic assembly, that Questions seeking the same information as those contained in Questions Nos. 23 and 24 will not be subject to the six-month rule——
The Leas-Cheann Comhairle cannot rule on anything. I will convey your observations to the Ceann Comhairle on this particular Question.
In view of the fact that you, Sir, are unable——
I do not decide on Questions.
I am still serving my apprenticeship in this House, so let us both be clear on what we are about. Can I, with your permission, ask one final supplementary?
A final one.
In view of the fact that the Minister does not have the information will he obtain it for us and circulate it to Deputy Desmond and myself?
I do not wish to give a commitment as it may not be available.
If it is available?
If it is, yes, but I do not know whether it is or not.
I accept that.
