Vol. 322 No. 11
andMr. Griffin asked the Minister for Finance in view of the present extension of the Wood Quay excavation, the advice which was sought from the Borough council of Dublin by the legal advisers to the Wood Quay site who according to the Government statement of 9 March 1979, have the right to decide the future of this site; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
23.
andMr. Griffin asked the Minister for Finance the future of the untouched archaeological area within the national monument site at Wood Quay, Dublin, adjoining the area and to the south of it, at present under excavation; if he intends to allow proper archaeglogical examination of this area; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
24.
andMr. Griffin asked the Minister for Finance if he will make a statement on the preservation of the national monument site at Wood Quay, Dublin.
25.
andMr. Griffin asked the Minister for Finance if he has satisfied himself that the steps being taken by Dublin Corporation to preserve artefacts, walls and so on of archaeological significance are satisfactory; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
26.
andMr. Griffin asked the Minister for Finance why the professional advice of the National Monuments Advisory Council, the statutory body which advises the Commissioners of Public Works, was not adhered to when the decision to excavate the present Fishamble Street strip down to bedrock was made; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 22 to 26, inclusive, together.
As the House will be aware the area known as the Wood Quay site is the property of Dublin Corporation and was acquired by them for the purposes of erecting civic offices for which they obtained planning authority after a public inquiry. By virtue of a High Court judgment on 30 June, 1978 the area between the City Wall, Fishamble Street, John's Lane and Winetavern Street was defined as a National Monument under the National Monuments Act, 1930.
To enable the corporation to proceed with the contract for the construction of part one of the civic offices a joint consent under section 14 of the National Monuments Act, 1930, was executed by the corporation and the Commissioners of Public Works. On 7 March 1979 the Supreme Court confirmed that this was "a valid and subsisting authority to the Corporation to act in accordance with its terms" and on 9 March 1979 the Government decided not to interfere with Dublin Corporation in exercising their legal right to proceed with the contract for part one of the civic offices.
Following discussions between the corporation, the Commissioners of Public Works and the National Museum, the corporation agreed to adjust their work programme to allow further archaeological excavation of the national monument site, and the Government provided the funds for this purpose.
These excavations have continued under the direction of the National Museum, and, as indicated in a recent statement, the Government will be making finance available for the archaeological excavation of the remaining southern section of the site which would be affected by the building works. This decision arose out of a motion passed at the June 1980 meeting of the Dublin City Council and reflects the Government's concern that the most comprehensive archaeological information be obtained from the site.
I am satisfied that the National Museum are fully competent to carry out these excavations in a proper, comprehensive and fully professional manner and that, within the constraints placed on them by the corporation's legal entitlement to proceed with stage one of the building project, they are complying with the broad recommendations of the National Monuments Advisory Council in the matter.
Dublin Corporation have indicated their intention to preserve the old stone city wall as part of their development of the site, and discussions have taken place and are continuing between officials of the Office of Public Works and the corporation to ensure that this is done in a satisfactory manner. I understand that the corporation have extended every possible facility to the National Museum to recover and safeguard all artefacts of archaeological significance discovered on the site.
Can the Minister give me an assurance that the whole of the site of the national monument will be excavated and that time will be given to the National Museum to ensure that there is a proper and full excavation of the site?
Our function in the matter of Wood Quay at the moment is to give consent to the museum to carry out any archaelogical excavations.
Is the Minister satisfied that the whole of the national monument site will be properly excavated, that money will be provided for excavating it and that a time extension will be given to ensure that excavations are carried out properly and fully to the satisfaction of the National Museum?
There was an issue from the Taoiseach's Department that the Government said they will make finance available for the excavation of the remaining southern section of the site at Wood Quay.
Is that the whole of the remaining site?
It is only a small portion.
The Minister has not answered the question in relation to whether money will be made available and time for the excavation of the whole of the site that has not been excavated?
Yes, for the excavation of the remaining southern section of the site at Wood Quay.
Will the whole of the remaining site, which has not been excavated, be excavated? Will the Minister of State forget about what is in the brief and give us the answer to this question?
The excavation of a small portion of this amounting to about 20 square metres will be completed in about three weeks to facilitate further building but on the recommendation of the director of the National Museum will be manual rather than mechanically excavated. The excavation of the rest of the site is expected to take about four months.
If the Minister does not do anything else but read out irrelevant matter from his brief he might as well remain silent. We asked a simple question. Will time and money be provided for the excavation of the whole of the remainder of the site which has not yet been excavated? The answer is either yes or no.
Yes. I answered that money would be made available. A statement was made by the Government that money would be made available and time will be made available as well.
For what?
For excavation to be carried out.
For the whole of the remainder of the site? The Minister has five times evaded the question. Will money and time be available for the whole of the remainder of the site, never mind the word southern? Yes or no?
It is a matter for Dublin Corporation.
No. It is the Minister's Department who make the money available.
That is right.
Will that money be made available for the excavation of the whole of the remainder of the site? That is a matter for the Government and for the Minister. Will the Minister give the answer.
In view of correspendence between the Minister for Energy and Dublin Corporation and in view of the fact that this site has been declared a national monument site by the courts of the country, would the Government not take steps to ensure that this national monument site will be protected for the people of Ireland? Would he take steps now to ensure that the Government provide whatever moneys are necessary to preserve the Wood Quay site?
If the corporation wish to preserve Wood Quay——
I am talking about the Government.
The Minister should be allowed answer.
The problem is that he will not answer.
The Government must take the responsibility in this matter.
The corporation have got planning permission to build on the site and if they wish to save Wood Quay, they have the power to do so. So far as I know the majority in Dublin Corporation belong to the Opposition parties.
Would the Minister not agree that it is the responsibility of his Department to preserve national monuments?
I have called Deputy Quinn.
Are the Government not prepared to provide the necessary moneys to local authorities to ensure that our national monuments are preserved? Are they not prepared to ensure the preservation of what must be the most important national monument this country has?
The question of whether the site is properly excavated is a matter primarily for the Department of Education and for the National Museum.
Has the Minister visited the site?
Yes.
When?
About two weeks ago.
Is the Minister satisfied that the necessary moneys will be made available to excavate all of the site?
Yes.
Will there be preserved any part of the remains other than the wall to which the Minister has referred and which has been penetrated by iron girders which have desecrated it to the whole length of its base?
That is a matter for the National Museum.
(Cavan-Monaghan): Can the Minister say——
We cannot spend all day on this question. I shall allow a final supplementary.
The Minister's Department are responsible for national monuments.
(Cavan-Monaghan): Arising out of Question No. 24, can the Minister say whether, even at this late stage, the Government will consider intervening to save the entire national monument for the nation and for Europe on the basis that what is happening is destroying the national monument, is obliterating Christchurch Cathedral and is proposing to erect office blocks which will be inadequate to meet requirements since only half the original proposal is being proceeded with?
The Deputy is making a statement.
(Cavan-Monaghan): The net result of all this will be to build a monstrosity on the site and to obstruct traffic in the area.
Dublin Corporation got planning permission from the Supreme Court——
(Cavan-Monaghan): The corporation give planning permission. They do not seek it.
We have spent far too long on this question.
Dublin Corporation have a legal right to build a block of offices on the site and this right is based on a decision of the Supreme Court. If the corporation wish to save Wood Quay, they have the power to do so.
We have had about 16 supplementaries on this question and there are many other questions on the Order Paper.
(Cavan-Monaghan): Will the Government who are headed by a Taoiseach who professes to be a gentleman of great culture provide the money to enable Dublin Corporation to save the monument? If the money is provided the matter will be resolved.
I have answered that question on two occasions. A decision will be reached by the Taoiseach in this matter.
(Cavan-Monaghan): Will the Government provide the necessary moneys?
Questions No. 27 and 28 are for written reply.
