asked the Minister for Justice if he will state with reference to a previous parliamentary question and to the Garda Commissioner's report the meaning of "detection" as used in respect of crime statistics; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions . Oral Answers . - Crime Statistics .
21.
: I assume that the previous parliamentary question to which the Deputy refers is one to which I gave a written answer on 13 December 1979 stating that I was informed by the Garda authorities, on the basis of their knowledge of the situation in a number of other countries, that it is common practice for police statistics to show as "offences detected" or "offences cleared up" all offences in respect of which charges are preferred.
In the Garda Commissioner's annual crime report, the expression "offences detected" relates to indictable offences only and covers, in addition to offences in respect of which charges are preferred, a small number of offences of which the perpetrators are known but in respect of which charges are not preferred because, for example, those concerned are dealt with under the juvenile liaison scheme or are mentally incapacitated or have died. Although the expression "offences detected" is not, in fact, used in the crime report in respect of non-indictable offences, "detection" in that instance would refer only to offences in respect of which proceedings are brought, as no useful purpose would be served by endeavouring to keep statistics of the very numerous minor offences that are dealt with by, for example, the administering of a caution.
: I want to be clear on this. Is the Minister confirming that when the Garda Commissioner's report refers to "detection" he is not talking about a conviction? Is that what the Minister is saying?
: I said "detection" in that instance would refer only to offences in respect of which proceedings are brought, as no useful purpose would be served by endeavouring to keep statistics of the very numerous minor offences that are dealt with by, for example, the administering of a caution.
: Does the Minister see two problems, if not dangers? One is that an artificially advantageous picture may be presented by presenting figures of detection as if they were for crimes cleared up on the basis of securing a conviction when that is not the case; for example, where the Garda felt they had a case but did not go ahead with it for one reason or another? Does he see a possibility of opening up our whole system to the temptation of assuming guilt because some of the crimes detected—the Minister will please correct me if I am wrong—include crimes or alleged crimes in respect of which there is not a conviction or the charge is not proceeded with and, in the case of the juvenile liaison officers scheme, the charge is not even initiated because it is dealt with in another way? I am not against that at all, but I want to call a spade a spade. Does the Minister see the two points to which I am referring?
: I said the expression "offences detected" relates to indictable offences only and covers, in addition to offences in respect of which charges are preferred, a small number of offences of which the perpetrators are known but in respect of which charges are not preferred because, for example, those concerned are dealt with under the juvenile liaison scheme or are mentally incapacitated or have died. That is the differentiation in the use of the word "detection" and the instance I have given should answer the Deputy's question adequately.
: Does the Minister agree that the common understanding of the word "detection" is the pursuing or the apprehension of somebody who has committed a crime and the presentation of convincing evidence that the person is guilty? Can the Minister confirm that parts of the statistics of detection include cases which are presumably surmised about people who are alleged to be guilty and where a charge is not preferred but is dealt with under the juvenile liaison scheme? That is not a bad idea. Does the Minister not accept that he is leaving the door open to assumptions of guilt and to presenting an artificially rosy picture of crime prevention and detection which all of us want to be at the highest level? That will not be achieved by stretching the concept of detection to include a case where a Garda may very well have a belief about a possible defendant but there may be no evidence of any crime.
: My information is that they refer only to offences in respect of which proceedings are brought
: Proceedings are not brought.