Vol. 324 No. 9
(Cavan-Monaghan) asked the Minister for the Environment if he proposes to indemnify local authorities against loss of revenue which they will incur in implementing the Government's directive to forego or postpone collection of rates due by farmers who have difficulties in meeting their rates liability; and if he will give an estimate of the amount involved.
6.
asked the Minister for the Environment if he will clarify the Government's statement following the recent meeting with leaders of the farming organisations relating to the relaxation of rate demands on farmers who are experiencing financial difficulties; if he is aware that local authorities have not been given directions in this matter and that a number of such authorities have issued six-day notices demanding payment of rates; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
7.
asked the Minister for the Environment if he will qualify the second paragraph of his recent circular to county councils regarding the payment of rates by farmers who are in financial difficulties; and if the Government intend to meet the shortfall in county councils' finances because of the inability of farmers in temporary financial difficulties to pay the rates demands.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 to 7, inclusive, together. Following the meeting on 12 September which the Taoiseach and the Ministers for Finance and Agriculture had with leaders of the farming organisations who made representations about the difficulties of farmers, particularly those in the £40 to £60 valuation category, in paying the second moiety of rates, a circular letter issued to county councils requesting that they adopt an understanding attitude towards individual farmers who clearly have temporary difficulties in meeting their rates liability in current circumstances. The request was reinforced in a further circular which issued on 4 November, and which notified local authorities of the remission of the second moiety of rates for those in the £40-£60 valuation category.
Rate collectors have various powers of recovering rates and it is normal practice for them to issue reminders in the form of the six-day notices, which are prescribed by statute, to persons in arrears. The fact that individual farmers may have received such reminders should not have inhibited them in any way from contacting their rate collector with a view to having their cases looked at in a fair and sympathetic manner in the light of their current circumstances. The cost of the remission for the £40-£60 category will be recouped to the local authorities by the Exchequer within the current year. While the payment of other rates on land may be slower as a result of the request to local authorities not to press farmers who are in difficulties it is too early at this stage to know whether there will be a permanent loss of revenue, and if so how much.
(Cavan-Monaghan): I presume the Minister appreciates that as as result of the rates being abandoned local authorities will be short of money, that they will have to incur substantial bank interest in regard to overdrafts and that they will also have to pay rate collectors a commissiom on rates which will not be collected. Does the Minister appreciate that the overall effect will be that those under-financed local authorities will run heavily into debt and will also be short of finance to carry on the services? Does he propose to indemnify them in regard to interest and all the other matters I have mentioned which will be involved in this decision?
Am I to take it from the Deputy's question that he is against the relief?
(Cavan-Monaghan): The Minister may take no such thing.
I have already answered the other point made by the Deputy when I said that the cost of the remission will be recouped to the local authorities by the Exchequer this year.
(Cavan-Monaghan): Does the Minister propose, beyond sending them two circulars, sending them some money? Does he propose to compensate them for the loss of revenue which the delay in receiving the rates will involve them in? I appreciate foregoing the second moiety of the rates, but is the Minister aware that, if he and his Government had taken my advice and heeded my warnings when the Bill which doubles the rates was going through the House, it would not be necessary for him to do that? Is he further aware that after foregoing half the moiety of rates to the farmers this year they will still be paying a much larger amount than they paid last year as a direct result of the Minister's action in abolishing the agricultural relief grant?
In reply to the part of the Deputy's contribution which was a question, it will be paid before the end of this year.
(Cavan-Monaghan): The Minister has no answer. He has not answered my supplementary question.
Most of it was a statement, not a question.
(Cavan-Monaghan): Sending out circulars will not fill the coffers before the end of the year.
Is the Minister aware that one of the results of this circular is that local authorities have had to lay off road workers almost immediately? Lest the Minister doubt that, is he aware that according to the local government staff negotiation board approximately 300 road workers who were on regular pensionable service have been laid off and that no casuals are being taken on in most local authority areas? Can the Minister now notify the local authorities that they will be recouped if they spend money on retaining those people or on re-employing them? Will the money be given back to them when the Minister is giving this Christmas box?
I have already said that this money will be paid to the authorities before the end of the year.
Under what subhead has an estimate been made for the provision of this money?
There will be a Bill before the House.
I know the Minister is not very long in the job but he is long enough in the House to realise what he is saying. Does he seriously commit himself on the records of the House to have a Bill in before Christmas to make this money available?
I shall have a Bill in before Christmas.
And make the money available which means passing the Bill in this House and the other House?
I replied on the basis that a Bill will be before the House.
This is important. People are losing their jobs. Would the Minister commit himself to have legislation passed——
Deputy Deasy for a final supplementary.
I wish to refer to question No. 7 which refers to the second circular sent by the Minister to local authorities on November 4 and I wish to address myself particularly to the second part of that question — what does the Minister intend to do regarding the rates which should have been paid by farmers who now find themselves in financial difficulties? The Minister has not made clear to local authorities whether he is going to remit that shortfall in income to the local authorities or not. I understand the provision he has made for non-payment of the second moiety by farmers with valuations between £40 and £60 but I do not understand if the Minister is making provision for the shortfall due to the fact that some farmers will not be able to pay their rate bills in the current year. Would the Minister explain that position because the local authorities themselves do not understand this. They tell me they have got no direction.
They have got a direction on it. Payment of other rates on land may so slower, as I said at the end of my original reply, as a result of the request to local authorities not to press farmers who are in difficulties. It is too early at this stage to know whether this will be a permanent loss of revenue and, if so, how much. If it is, it will be picked up by the Exchequer.
Ceist 8 and Ceist 9 have gone for written reply.
(Cavan-Monaghan): There are three questions here and I want to ask the Minister—
I am well aware of that. I allowed sufficient supplementaries.
(Cavan-Monaghan): Is the Minister aware that there is urgency about this because men are being let go?
Ceist 10.
