Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 4 Dec 1980

Vol. 325 No. 3

Supplementary Estimates, 1980. - Vote 9: Public Works and Buildings (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £6,390,000 be granted to defray the charge that will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1980, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of Public Works; for certain domestic expenses; for expenditure in respect of public buildings; for the maintenance of certain parks and public works; for the execution and maintenance of drainage and other engineering works; and for payment of a grant-in-aid.

—(Minister for Finance.)

Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Mr. McEllistrim)

I should like to deal with national schools. National school works are carried out to the requirements of the Department of Education who finalise all projects. Time must be allotted to the Office of Public Works to prepare plans and specifications. There is no delay in my Department in preparing these plans and specifications. Expenditure from my Department on national schools in 1976 was £10 million; in 1979, £17 million and in 1980 it is £23.5 million. This is an increase of 130 per cent in expenditure on repair and improvement of national schools.

Deputy Begley spoke of local authorities that had granted planning permissions which were being held up by my Department. I should like to advise the Deputy that the National Monuments Advisory Council act entirely independent of the Board of Works in relation to the Planning Act. My Department is not responsible for any delay.

The Deputy also raised the matter of bar accommodation in this House. If the Deputy consults representatives from his party on the Restaurant Committee he will find out the plans we have for the restoration of the bar.

Mr. O'Keeffe

And the dining facilities.

Mr. McEllistrim

We have plans drawn up for the restoration of the Public Bar, the Member's Bar and for the provision of a coffee-dock type of restaurant. The Deputy said that the Board of Works brought some workers in here this morning because this Supplementary Estimate was being discussed. Those workers have been here for the past four weeks and if the Deputy asks the bartenders he will be told that these men were working at the back of the bar for the past four weeks. He must accept that we have to act on the recommendations of the Restaurant Committee and we must also have to cause as little disruption as possible in the House especially when the two Houses are sitting.

I should like to congratulate Killarney on being selected as a site for a Civil Service Department, under our decentralisation programme. I assure the Deputy that my Department and I will do everything possible to ensure that a site is procured as soon as possible in that area for this office.

Mr. Donnellan

Where else are there sites for that?

Mr. McEllistrim

I could not answer that now but if the Deputy puts down a question I shall probably be able to answer it. The coast erosion problem in the Magharees was also raised. Kerry County Council recommended that a prohibition order be made for a certain area of the Magharees and this was submitted to my Department. It is the Department of Transport that makes the prohibition order. My Department and the Department of Transport asked Kerry County Council to define the area which should be prohibited. The county council took a long time to reply even though it is my own county council as well as the Deputy's. The Deputy may check this with the officials of his own county council and they will give him the same information.

Mr. Begley

The county council sat on it?

Mr. McEllistrim

The county council delayed for a long time when asked to define the area in respect of which the prohibition order was sought.

Mr. Begley

How long was the delay?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Kerry men cannot proceed by way of question and answer.

Mr. Begley

The Minister is attacking officials outside this House, officials of Kerry County Council. I should like him to be more explicit.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy may not interrupt the Minister. If he wishes, I shall allow him to ask a brief question at the end.

Mr. McEllistrim

I am not attacking any officials outside this House. I am merely giving the information I have in my own Department. I knew this was going from Kerry County Council as well as through the Department because I had a particular interest in a coast protection job being done in the Magharees area. Barretstown Castle was also mentioned today. The castle is held by the Office of Public Works on lease from the trustees of the Barretstown Castle Trust and the State has every right to occupy it.

Mr. Begley

That is not so.

Mr. McEllistrim

That is right. Legislation to enable the Commissioners of Public Works to accept the trusteeship is on the Statute Book. Legal details to enable the existing trustees to hand over the trust to the Commissioners are not yet completed.

Mr. Begley

Now we are getting somewhere.

Mr. McEllistrim

It is a matter for the existing trustees to complete the legal details themselves.

Mr. Begley

The trustees were not even asked for permission to have the Cabinet meet there and they are the legal owners at the moment.

Mr. McEllistrim

Some Deputies questioned our arterial drainage policy. The entire drainage policy has been supported by successive Governments since the formation of the State and it has not changed except that there had been greater emphasis on the implementation of policy.

Mr. Donnellan

What year was the Drainage Act brought in?

Mr. McEllistrim

I could not answer that.

Mr. Donnellan

It is not there from the foundation of the State.

Mr. McEllistrim

It is evident that the Deputy is confusing a change in policy with positive progress and commitment to arterial drainage.

Mr. Begley

You are a jewel.

Mr. Donnellan

I cannot understand——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The two Deputies should stay quiet for a little while and let the Minister finish.

Mr. Donnellan

Do the Government have a policy on arterial drainage?

Mr. McEllistrim

Yes.

Mr. Donnellan

What is it?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Policy matters will be discussed on the major Estimate, not a Supplementary Estimate.

Mr. McEllistrim

When there was a Coalition Government in office there were only two schemes going ahead together. We have three major arterial drainage schemes in progress. There will be five schemes going ahead next year.

Mr. Begley

Five additional schemes?

Mr. McEllistrim

Three that are in progress at present, the Maigue, the Boyne and the Corrib-Mask. Next year we will be doing the Boyle and the Bonet.

Mr. Begley

That would not be done without EEC money.

Mr. McEllistrim

The State will have to provide 50 per cent of the cost.

Mr. Begley

I am glad I initiated that at EEC level.

Mr. McEllistrim

Deputy Begley raised the question of the dredging of Dingle Harbour. There was an agreement drawn up between the Office of Public Works and Kerry County Council a few years ago under which Kerry County Council would meet the cost of dredging. We have made numerous requests to Kerry County Council to submit their contribution for the dredging of Dingle Harbour. The cost of the dredging is £15,000. If Kerry County Council make a commitment to us that the £15,000 will be paid, we will have the dredging of Dingle Harbour carried out.

Mr. Begley

They have no money.

Mr. McEllistrim

The Deputy is a member of Kerry County Council and if he wants Dingle Harbour dredged he should request Kerry County Council to pay £15,000 and we will help in the dredging of Dingle Harbour. I have covered most of the items which were mentioned——

Mr. Begley

You are right to run now.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Stop, Deputy Begley, please. This sort of thing cannot continue.

Mr. McEllistrim

I have covered everything that has been mentioned in the Supplementary Estimate——

Mr. Begley

The Leas-Cheann Comhairle said he would allow me to raise one question.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Yes.

Mr. Begley

The Minister is suffering from the same failing he suffered from a couple of months ago, loss of hearing.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not a question.

Mr. Begley

Would the Minister state his policy on arterial drainage?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Policy matters can be raised on the Estimate proper, not on a Supplementary Estimate.

Mr. Begley

Did the Minister say that the Board of Works are the legal owners of Barrettstown Castle and that the trustees are right? Is the Minister telling me that the Board of Works have not legally acquired Barrettstown Castle and that the Cabinet are now squatting?

Mr. McEllistrim

They have leased it.

Mr. Begley

Have the Board of Works applied for permission to have these Cabinet meetings at Barrettstown Castle?

Mr. McEllistrim

They do not have to. They are legally entitled to be there.

Vote put and agreed to.

Notice taken that 20 Members were not present; House counted and 20 Members being present,