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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 27 Jan 1981

Vol. 326 No. 1

Private Members' Business. - Home Improvement Grants: Motion.

(Cavan-Monaghan): I move:

That Dáil Éireann deplores the Government's action in terminating house improvement grants and household fuel conversion grants having regard to the necessity for prolonging the life of the national housing stock and conserving energy.

To that motion the Government had the courage, or perhaps I should say the cheek, to put down an amendment generally complimenting themselves or asking the House to compliment them on the housing situation and their housing programme. Because of the necessity for conserving the housing stock encouragement should be given to people to repair their houses. All of us know that the cost of providing new houses has risen very considerably and we know of the difficulty of replacing old houses. The price of a new house is completely out of the reach of young married couples. I shall give the House some statistics from the quarterly bulletin of housing statistics compiled by the Minister and his Department. Figures show that the average price of a new house in 1976 was £12,258 but that figure had jumped to £28,287 in 1980. I do not have to remind Members of this House or young people looking for homes that this is an enormous sum, especially when we know that the maximum grant available from local authorities is £12,000. That leaves a gap of £16,000. That local authority grant is available only to people whose income does not exceed £5,500 per year. Therefore, only people who have a house to sell, who have their own site or who will do much of the work themselves will be able to consider purchasing or building a house with the aid of the local authority grant.

Very many people must go to banks or building societies for finance and in the case of a house costing £28,287 the repayments will be in the region of £60 per week. It is not possible for people in receipt of normal incomes to pay such an amount each week. As a result of such repayments many young married women are forced to go out to work and to keep working when they would much prefer to be at home looking after their homes, and later on caring for their families. However, when repayment charges are so high the young couple must work. There is no objection to young married women working provided they want to do so.

I have given the Deputy an opportunity to lead up to the motion but now he is debating housing and the costs of housing.

(Cavan-Monaghan): I am, Sir, and at considerable length.

The House is dealing only with one motion which refers to two grants.

(Cavan-Monaghan): I do not know if the Chair had an opportunity of looking at the amendment also.

The amendment would cover to some extent what the Deputy is saying.

(Cavan-Monaghan): There is no objection whatever to young married women working provided they want to work. There is no suggestion from me that they should be prevented from working and earning money but we know from experience that many of these young women would prefer not to have to work especially when the first or second child arrives. In addition, driving these young women out to work is adding to the huge unemployment figure, one that is growing dramatically.

I am not telling the Minister or the Government anything they do not know. They appreciate fully that prices have escalated beyond the reach of those people who need housing. There have been rumours in the past month or perhaps two months that the Government propose to increase substantially new house grants. I hope they do because such an increase is long overdue. In this connection a rumour has been circulating in this city and throughout the country for some time past that the figure will be £3,000 as from tomorrow.

I am just relating rumours which I have heard and cannot know whether these are right or wrong. However, if the Minister does propose in the budget tomorrow to increase new house grants from £1,000 to £3,000, as is rumoured by people who profess to know what they are talking about, it is certainly not before its time. It is evidence that the increase is badly needed. The price of a house has jumped from £12,258 in 1976 to £28,287 in 1980, so it will be seen that the proposed increase of £3,000, if this is correct — and the Minister will not be in a position to either deny or confirm this figure but must be aware that wise guys are predicting or forecasting £3,000 — will not, in fact, restore the availability of houses to what it was in 1976, at a price of £12,258, because houses have jumped, not in value but in cost, to the figures that I have mentioned. We all know that the much larger loans are far harder to get and much more difficult to finance. If this rumour about house grants is correct, I certainly hope that there will not be a repetition of what happened when the Minister's predecessor introduced the £1,000 new house grant. Then the price of a house jumped from £12,258 in 1976 to £14,770 in 1977, to £18,966 in 1978 and to £23,144 in 1979. In other words, inflation in this respect took off like a bomb immediately the last housing grant was introduced and there was no benefit whatever to house purchasers or house builders. As a matter of fact these were much worse off. I am putting these facts on record to show that there is a grave necessity for conserving houses where possible and prolonging the life of houses which, with the expenditure of some money, would last a reasonable time.

Next I want to say — and this is relevant to the amendment — that, notwithstanding the attempt of the Government to applaud themselves for a good job done in house building for the people who badly need houses, house building has fallen behind. The local authority house building programme has fallen behind very considerably. The Minister stated that local authority housing completions in 1980 will reach 6,000, which is a nice round figure. Assuming that this is correct, it will be the lowest number of houses built since 1972. Will the Minister spell out this figure of 6,000, because again I am relying on the quarterly bulletin on housing statistics for the quarter ended 30 September 1980? I find there that in the first quarter of 1980, 711 houses were completed; in the second quarter 1,188; and in the third quarter, 1,366. Those three figures total, according to my mathematics, 3,665. If the figure of 6,000 was reached in 1980 it means that 2,735 houses must have been completed in the last quarter, or almost as many as in the other three quarters. This sounds funny to me but, even if it is correct, 6,000 houses would be the lowest number built since 1972.

While completions are important for those lucky enough to be at the top of the queue and who qualify for the comparatively small number of houses made available, the people who do not qualify are more concerned with new house starts than with new house completions. Would the Minister tell us how many local authority houses were started in 1980? We know that no money was available to local authorities for new house starts, on houses to which they were not committed before 1980, until almost the end of September and local authorities who sought over £1 million were in some cases allocated as little as £35,000. What is the housing programme for this year? How many houses will be completed this year and, in order to know that, we have to know how many houses were started last year? According to another official document issued by the Minister's Department, the number of houses at planning stage has fallen drastically by about 2,000. I do not have the exact figure.

In so far as the private sector is concerned, the Minister says that a large number of houses were built this year, I think he said a record number. There certainly are a lot of them throughout the country unoccupied and on the market for sale. Again, the telling figures obtained by Deputy Bruton to date represent a nice litany to show that the country is in a state of depression. When these figures were being given by Deputy Moore we could see depression on the faces of the Taoiseach and some of his Ministers.

The figures show that there was a falloff in private house building, that there must have been because the sale of cement in the last six months of 1979 declined by 21.4 per cent. You cannot make omelettes without cracking eggs and you cannot build houses without buying cement.

All this means that an increase in the grants available to house purchasers is badly needed and if this £3,000 figure is an accurate rumour — I am more convinced now than when I came in here earlier that it is — steps should be taken to see that it goes directly into the hands of house purchasers. According to the figures given today, the number of people employed in the housing industry has fallen. On a base of 100 in 1975, there were 95.8 employed in 1980 in the housing industry as against 100.2 in 1979. They are not my figures: they were given today by the Taoiseach's Minister of State at Question Time.

The figures I have been giving and what I have been saying by way of comment, are meant to convince the Minister and the House that housing grants and home improvement grants are necessary to allow people who cannot buy new houses because of astronomical price rises to improve and make do with the houses they have. If that problem was never there, the Government are in honour bound to make generous housing grants available. In abolishing the existing grants they behaved in a disgraceful manner, completely reneging on the promises on which they were elected.

At page 20 of their manifesto in 1977 they stated that Fianna Fáil believed then that as many families as possible should own their own houses and that those who owned houses should be able to keep them. Now the Government have made it nearly impossible to buy a house. We put before them a policy on mortgages based on inflation and incomes. That policy was received by Deputy O'Donoghue, a former Minister, as nothing new. He said Fianna Fáil had been thinking about it. But they have not done anything about it. He said he hoped that when they had introduced it they would not be accused of stealing Fine Gael's thunder. On the first day the present Minister for the Environment spoke he referred to an inflation-related, income-related housing policy. The only problem he pointed to in this respect was in relation to what would happen to people operating local authority housing finance schemes throughout the country. He completely overlooked that such schemes would be necessary for smaller loans but the Government have not made these available, and though in their investment plan they seemed to be talking about something of the sort, they are not making it easier to buy new houses.

In their manifesto Fianna Fáil assured the people they would make it easier and cheaper to keep houses. In paragraph 6 of their policy on local government they said they would introduce a new grant scheme for house improvement. However, we have less favourable house improvement grants indicating an intention to abolish such grants. It is a despicable performance.

When Fianna Fáil took over, a grant of £400 subject to a means test of £10 valuation was available for house improvements. Anybody who knows anything about Ireland will agree that old houses which need repair would fall within the £10 valuation category. It is true to say that having got rid of that grant scheme Fianna Fáil introduced a home improvemnt scheme which appeared substantially to improve the old one. They made the grant available to all, irrespective of valuation, so that even millionaires could qualify whether the valuation of the house was £60 or £10, and they increased the amount from £400 to £600, abolishing the county council's contribution of £200.

However, at the beginning of last year, from 21 January, with a week's notice and provided that there was not a commitment by the applicant to a contractor or that he had commenced work, the grant was no longer available. The people who came badly out of this were those who could not afford and never will be able to afford in the foreseeable future to buy a house, people who would try to repair the houses they had, to replace faulty roofs or replace old leaking windows and so on. Here we are not talking about essential repairs which would keep a house standing for two or three years until God calls the occupant: we are talking about people who want to repair their houses so that they can expect them to last for 20 or 25 years with the help of Government grants.

Another very deserving class have also been hit and they are the many people buying out local authority houses which have been in existence for the past 50 or 60 years, some of which have no indoor toilet or proper kitchen. The people who buy these houses convert them, if they can afford it, into little castles. They replace old windows and doors with hardwood timber and build on indoor toilets. These people are not now being encouraged to do such works and the county councils cannot afford to carry out repairs because the Minister for the Environment has turned off the finance tap and ensured that local authority houses will be allowed to deteriorate. This is the kind of people the Minister has hit. It is a shame and a disgrace. The people who own such houses are not being given the necessary assistance to prolong the lives of their houses.

The Minister, of course, could not go back to a reasonable means test when he found that people living in fashionable areas in Dublin and elsewhere were availing of the grants to put in aluminium windows, add additional rooms and make all sorts of other improvements. If the Minister introduced a means test he would be saying that Deputy Tully was right and that the Fianna Fáil manifesto was only a stunt to get them over the election. Of course he could not do it, so the whole scheme was chopped and in the process of cutting out abuses the deserving cases were also hit.

At the same time the Minister also abolished the energy conservation grants and all the Ministers are now blaming the mess into which they have got the country on the cost of imported oil. Everything that has befallen this country is blamed in toto on the cost of oil, yet on 21 January last year it was announced that no more grants would be payable for changing over from oil-fired heating to systems using solid fuel. Of course the Minister for Energy, formally Minister for Finance, had to make his mark in the Department of Energy. How did he do so? By substituting for these energy conservation grants of up to £600 a new grant of £50 for attic insulation. What have we come to and where are we going?

Not only did the terminating of the housing grants scheme impose hardship on people who wanted to avail of it but those who had applied and were encouraged to rush in during the last week of the scheme are being treated in a disgraceful way. The housing section of the Department of the Environment is in a state of chaos, notwithstanding the extra Minister of State at that Department. The Minister seems to be surprised at that but if he represented a rural constituency he would know that it is impossible to get a grant. Papers are lost and inspections do not take place and people cannot get the grants to which they are entitled. If one gets a letter from the Department saying that a grant has been or will be paid or hears of someone who has actually received it, one is very surprised. If the Minister expresses surprise at what I am saying it must be that I am particularly unfortunate because much of my time is taken up by people who have completed reconstruction work and qualified before the axe fell and who yet cannot obtain grants to which they are entitled. I want the Minister to say when the backlog of work in the Department will be cleared and when people who are qualified for grants will receive them. There has been a disgraceful performance in this matter.

I do not know how the Minister can propose to delete from my motion all the words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute "takes note of the action taken by the Government to ensure continued progress on a comprehensive basis in the building industry and, in particular, of its success in securing an unprecedented level of housing completions in 1980." Everybody knows that this is nonsense and that house prices have gone beyond the reach of those who wish to purchase them. What about the people who were led by the manifesto to believe that a better and more favourable scheme of house improvement grants would be introduced? What have the Government to say to them? Their plight has been aggravated and exacerbated by the fact that housing prices have gone far beyond their reach. What about the unfortunates who wish to repair the council house they are buying, the price of which has been raised by the Minister? Year after year since this Government came into office the prices of council houses and the annuities which must be paid have been increased substantially.

There is an unanswerable case for my resolution. If the new house grant is increased tomorrow by £3,000 I will be the first to welcome it but I appeal to the Minister with all the sincerity I can command to make sure that we do not have a repetition of escalating house prices such as occurred after the introduction of the last grant.

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and to substitute

"takes note of the action taken by the Government to ensure continued progress on a comprehensive basis in the building industry and, in particular, of its success in securing an unprecedented level of housing completions in 1980".

I have great respect for Deputy Fitzpatrick and his long experience as Shadow Minister for the Environment. I regret he will no longer be my Shadow Minister. However, I look forward to seeing him on the front benches opposite for many years as Shadow Minister for another Department.

Deputy Fitzpatrick started by discussing spiralling house prices. I would like to give him some figures. Since January 1973 there has been close correspondence between increases in prices of private new houses of comparable standard, house building costs and average earnings of adult male workers.

The trend in increases in house prices, house building costs and earnings is, as follows. In the case of new house prices, there was an increase of 113 per cent during the period of the Coalition. From mid-1977 to the third quarter of 1980 there has been an increase of 84.6 per cent. In the case of house building costs there was an increase of 133 per cent in the period 1973-1977 and under this Government there was an increase of 52.3 per cent. The average earnings of adult male workers increased by 126 per cent during the time of the Coalition and roughly 53 per cent during period from mid-1977 up to the end of September 1980. Between 1976 and 1980 there was an estimated 9 per cent improvement in the standards of privately built houses. The CRV system was introduced in February 1973. The effect of the control was diminished in 1976 under the Coalition when the scope of the new house grants scheme was reduced. The CRV system has been extended on several occasions since July 1977 and CRVs are now required for practically all new house purchases for which loans are obtained, excluding certain flats, and for all grant-aided houses. Since September 1980 the CRV system has been put on a firm statutory basis.

Deputy Fitzpatrick suggested there should be an increase to £3,000 for new house grants.

(Cavan-Monaghan): Far more.

I do not wish to labour the point that when he was a Member of the Coalition Government house prices and wages more than doubled — new house grants were not increased by a single pound. That the present grant still provides an adequate incentive for persons to become home owners is proved by facts, that the number of new house grants allocated increased from 9,330 in 1979 to 10,016 in 1980.

Deputy Fitzpatrick referred to what he called a slow-down in the local authority housing programme. I will deal at greater length with this later. This Government are fully committed to a steady ongoing output of between 6,000 and 6,300 local authority dwellings every year. Has there been a slow-down? The best yardstick of work in progress is the number of men employed on the programme. At 30 November 1976 when the Coalition were in office 6,043 men were employed. At 30 November 1977 when the Fianna Fáil Government were reviving the programme 6,742 men were employed. At 30 November 1979 the figure was 6,750. At the end of last November the total employed on local authority housing was 7,291, the highest figure of employment at any month's end ever. This belies the point made by Deputy Fitzpatrick.

The Deputy referred to the drop of 21 per cent in cement sales during the past six months. If he looks at the figures more closely he will see that there were significant signs of an improvement in that situation. This is due largely to the action taken by the Government under the second national understanding where considerable money was put into the building industry at the end of last year. The Government's investment plan provides substantial increases in roads and sanitary service investment. This has been welcomed by representatives of the building industry, the CIF and the CII and should result in increasing output and employment.

At a time when there are so many matters of live and important national interest which could well be the subject of discussion in this House, it gives me no joy to see parliamentary time being taken up in a completely negative fashion debating just one aspect of an interrelated package of housing policies introduced by the Government slightly more than a year ago.

It is a measure of the level of responsibility of the party which moved this motion that the topic raised tonight was already fully debated twice in Dáil Éireann and that not one new iota has been adduced in the opening speech to justify our traversing the same ground again. As o their bona fides in deploring the termination of part of the scheme of house improvement grants, one has only to look at their own record while in office from 1973-77 when they deliberately set about dismantling the whole system of housing grants by the introduction of restrictive means tests and maximum valuation limits. So effective were these measures that the total amount paid out by the Department in housing grants fell from £7.8 million in their first year of office to £4.3 million in 1977. Compare that record with the £27 million paid last year and the £28.5 million which the Government are providing in 1981 and you will understand my questioning the motive and the objective in raking up this matter once again. However, in case any members of the public might be misled by statements made by Deputies opposite, I am left with no alternative to setting the facts on the record once again.

House improvement grants cannot be considered in isolation from other aspects of housing policy. In turn, as the Government's Investment Plan 1981 published earlier this month, clearly established, housing policies must be considered in the wider context of social and infrastructural services generally and ultimately as part of the overall national building programme. This is what government is all about. In their narrow and selective approach to one relatively minor aspect of building, the Deputies who support this motion show once again that they would not be a creditable alternative Government.

To begin, let me go back a year in time. Before I finish tonight, I shall, unfortunately, have to go back somewhat further. When the phasing out of certain house improvement grants was announced in January 1980, the Government pointed out that local authorities would be asked to carry out a detailed assessment of accumulated housing needs and prospective needs for the following five years and that, arising from these assessments, the Government would develop an appropriate and comprehensive strategy for housing, well into the eighties. This involved the most comprehensive and sophisticated housing survey ever undertaken in this State. I expect to receive the detailed assessment from local authorities over the next month or two and the information obtained as a result of the surveys of the housing stock in their areas and their consideration of possible developments relating to household formation will assist me in devising policies concerning the national housing programme and also ways and means of ensuring that the existing staff is adequately maintained——

(Cavan-Monaghan): I do not wish to interrupt the Minister because he did not interrupt me, but it is only a few years since a similar survey was carried out.

There was no survey of this type ever carried out.

(Cavan-Monaghan): Of course there was.

Indeed, as an initial part of my approach to the matter of house improvements, I intend to outline to local authorities very shortly a new and imaginative policy relating to the future financing of improvements to their rented housing stock. I know Deputy Fitzpatrick will be pleased about that as he mentioned the improvements to the rented housing stock.

In January 1980, the Government also announced that they proposed to re-deploy the capital resources available for housing in order to maximise the national benefits and, in particular, to apply public funds to assisting categories and individuals in relation to their genuine need for such supports.

The provision for housing capital expenditure by the Exchequer in 1981 is £242 million. This represents an increase of 33 per cent on the original provision of £183 million for 1980 and an increase of 20 per cent on the estimated outturn of £201 million. In fact, in 1981, the amount of money we are providing for housing shows an increase of 34 per cent in real terms as compared with 1977. On the other hand, while the Coalition Government were in power, expenditure dropped by 57 per cent in real terms between 1975 and 1977. This shows very clearly where their priorities were during their last two years in office.

In terminating some grants, the Government looked at ways of compensating people of modest means who would otherwise suffer hardship. Such people are more than compensated for the termination of open-ended grants by large increases in local authority house improvement loans and in the qualifying income limits. The maximum unsecured loan which had been increased from £200 to £600 in November 1977 was raised to £1,000 in respect of work started on or after 1 February 1980. Where security can be provided, a loan of up to £4,000 may be advanced. The interest rate on these loans is considerably lower than that charged by commercial lending agencies. In February 1980 the income limits for these loans was increased from £4,000 to £5,500.

Deputies supporting the original motion may attempt to cloud the issue by giving misleading figures for expenditure, but let us take a more simple yardstick. When it comes to the question of total new house completions, the present Government's record speaks for itself. When the Coalition Government took up office in 1973, we handed over to them a housing programme which had a completion rate of 25,000 well within its sights. Completions rose to 26,900 in 1975, but by then the Coalition Government had run out of steam. Completions fell by almost 3,000 to 24,000 in 1976. In the first six months of 1977, the annual completion rate had dropped to 21,000 before they were voted out of office. Since then we have effected a steady recovery. Completions increased to 25,400 in 1978, to 26,500 in 1979 and to an all-time record of 27,785 last year. This achievement did not happen accidentally. It was the result of the development of appropriate policies over the past few years. Let us consider these policies and contrast them with the performance of the Coalition Government while they were in power.

The number of non-local authority house completions increased from 16,700 in 1976 to an estimated record level of 21,785 last year. In other words, there were 5,000 more private houses built last year than in 1976 and this achievement no doubt considerably helped young couples who were seeking to buy their first home. While the Coalition were in power, the number of private house completions dropped from 18,600 in 1973 to 16,700 in 1976.

In 1977, we introduced a grant of £1,000 for first time owner/occupiers of new houses. This grant replaced a grant based on restrictive income limits which the Coalition Government had imposed in 1976. Since 1977, the SDA loan and income limits were increased on three occasions by a total of 166 per cent and 134 per cent, respectively. The Coalition Government allowed these limits to remain static between September 1973 and July 1977, despite the fact that house prices and earnings more than doubled during that period. Expenditure on SDA loans increased from £17 million in 1977 to an estimated £63 million in 1980 and the provision for this year is £93 million.

The impact of building societies in private housing investment has expanded considerably in recent years. Total advances by the societies increased from £119 million in 1977 to an estimated £270 million last year. With effect from August 1979 all registered societies were asked to:

(a) allocate at least 70 per cent of available mortgage finance in providing mortgages for house purchasers whose mortgage requirements did not exceed £20,000.

(b) require that certificates of reasonable value be furnished by all applicants for mortgages for the purchase of new houses and

(c) allocate at least 40 per cent of all loans for the purchase of new houses.

In keeping with this policy of encouraging the application of the bulk of their funds to borrowers in the lower loan bands and in particular to new house loans, societies financed the purchase of about 7,500 new house loans in 1980. The fact that societies maintained a high rate of approvals last year augurs well for 1981. It is estimated that they will have over £300 million available to them which will finance the purchase of approximately 7,000 new houses.

A temporary subsidy was introduced last year which enabled building societies to increase their investment rates and let mortgage rates stand at 14.15 per cent. With the general downward movement of interest rates, there is now no need for the subsidy, and the societies have been enabled to reduce their mortgage rates by 1 per cent. Since 1977, the maximum amount of personal interest — including house mortgage interest — qualifying for income tax relief has been increased from £2,000 to £4,800.

Deputies opposite have been critical from time to time about increases in house prices — carefully ignoring the concurrent increases in average earnings. One has only to look at the remarkable growth since 1977 in home ownership as indicated in new house completions to realise that house prices have not moved beyond the purchasing capacity of the general public.

At the same time this Government have been genuinely concerned about the control of new house prices. A Fianna Fáil Government introduced the first ever form of control on such prices in 1973. While the Coalition were in power, they exercised little or no control over rising house prices and costs. In fact, the system of house price control was largely undermined by the income limits which they imposed on the new house grant system in 1976, thus greatly lessening the scope of the controls which were associated with that system. Since 1977, the form of control of new house prices has been extended on several occasions. CRVs are now required for practically all new house purchases for which loans are obtained excluding only a very limited number of flats, and for all grant-aided houses. Since September 1980 the CRV system has been put on a firm statutory basis, and provision has been introduced to enable appeals to the courts by any builder dissatisfied with the operation of the controls. I regard it as a vote of confidence in the equitable manner in which the system is operated by my Department that no builder has, so far, felt constrained to have recourse to the courts.

In the area of non-profit housing, a grant is available since 1979 to meet a substantial part of the administrative costs of the National Association of Building Co-operatives. In 1978, an improved package of financial assistance to voluntary housing associations providing housing for elderly persons came into operation. Again, the Coalition fell down on the job in as much as they did not take any steps to assist non-profit housing bodies between 1973 and 1977.

Another way in which private housing activity was encouraged was that the subsidisable cost limit on each housing site developed by local authorities and approved bodies for modestly priced private housing was increased from £900 to £1,500. This limit had remained unchanged between 1972 and 1977.

When the Coalition took up office in 1973, they set out in a determined fashion to increase the rate of local authority housing completions. They succeeded in reaching a completion figure of almost 8,800 in 1975. They then realised that the country could not afford such a high proportion of council houses out of the total of new house completions. During their last year in office, in 1977, the completion rate had dropped by almost 2,500 to an annual level of 6,300. Since then, the annual rate of completions has been maintained at a steady level ranging from 6,000 to 6,300. This is infinitely preferable to the peaks and valleys in output which occurred under the previous Administration.

Low-rise mortgages were advanced for the first time by local authorities in 1977 and the number of these loans advanced for the purchase of private houses has been of the order of 700 annually. Over the last three years the number of tenants and prospective tenants of council houses who have either qualified for a low-rise mortgage or obtained a council house on a tenancy basis ranged from 6,700 to 7,000. When the number of casual vacancies in council houses is taken into account, the total number of persons qualifying for such houses or mortgages has been about 9,000 in each of the last few years.

Having put the subject of this motion into its proper and wider perspective I would like to deal with its limited and specific terms. I welcome the opportunity given to me by the Opposition to deal in detail with the Government's reasons for terminating certain house improvement grants, and in doing so I will once again remind the Deputies opposite, however much they may dislike it, of their miserable record in housing grants during their term of office.

The Government did not make their decision lightly in January 1980. House improvement grants, in one form or another, have existed since 1924 and, over the years, made an important contribution to helping people to conserve and improve their houses. But it must be kept in mind that housing grants have always been one of the components in financing the element of the housing programme. They cannot be considered in isolation from the other elements of housing policy concerned with improving the quality of the national housing stock, especially the scheme of loans at relatively low interest rates, to which I have already referred and which were greatly increased by the present Government.

Deputies opposite choose also to overlook the other house improvement grants schemes which have been retained — the group water and group sewerage facilities grants, the scheme to help voluntary organisations adapt existing dwellings in order to provide decent housing for old people, the grants to make houses suitable for persons suffering from physical handicap or severe mental illness and the essential repairs grants. The Fine Gael motion blandly ignores these factors, and, in highlighting the need to conserve energy, overlooks the highly popular and successful scheme of grants introduced last year by the Department of Energy to encourage householders to reduce energy consumption in their dwellings.

Having regard to the extent of the demands on the Exchequer, it was evident that public expenditure in 1980 had to be controlled, more particularly in the light of trends in the national and international economic climate. Radical measures had to be taken without delay to bring the expenditure on housing within the extent of the public funds which could be provided and to re-deploy resources in the manner I have indicated. It was in this context that the decision was taken to phase out certain parts of the house improvement grants scheme.

I stress once again that only parts of the overall grants scheme were ended. The Government looked in detail at the different categories of applicants and of works which had been benefiting. The works assisted were certainly wide-ranging. Grants were being paid for the provision of works such as sun-parlours and playrooms, the conversion of garages into livingrooms and the building of extra rooms which were not needed to relieve overcrowding. It is understandable that people should seek as good a standard of housing for themselves and their families as they can achieve, but they cannot reasonably expect the State to contribute towards the cost of non-essential improvements at the expense of people who need extra accommodation for their families or who must carry out urgent repairs and who cannot do so without some help from the State.

The Government's decision in announcing the package of changes in the loans and grants was made on the basis of these priorities. The payment of a grant of up to £600 to people changing their oil-fired central heating to an expensive solid-fuel burning unit could not continue to be a priority in the circumstances.

During the past few years, a significant increase has occurred in the numbers of new houses being provided with solid-fuel systems. Nowadays, practically every scheme of houses has such a system. I might add that poor people did not, in general, avail of these grants. Consequently, where hard decisions had to be made this pilot scheme had to be terminated. In passing, I might suggest that with the constantly escalating costs of heating oil, many householders find that, over a period, the change to solid-fuel heating can be self-financing.

Of course, the Government in announcing the termination of certain grants on 21 January 1980 did not follow the lead given by the Coalition when they restricted new house and reconstruction grants in 1976 and 1977 respectively. Without any advance warning, the Coalition imposed income limits and valuation limits overnight consequently excluding people who had entered into binding commitments or purchased materials in the expectation of getting grants. In contrast, this Government allowed a period of grace up to 1 February 1980 to enable people in similar circumstances to submit applications. Later on, applications were accepted which reached the Department after 1 February but which had been posted at a time by which they could reasonably be expected to arrive in the Department by that date. The result was that almost 46,000 applications were accepted following the announcement of the termination of the grants. In fact, between 1 January and 1 February 1980 about 50,000 applications were received and accepted, corresponding to practically the entire intake for 1979. As well, the final date of 1 October 1980 for the completion of works and claiming of grants was extended to 31 March 1981.

I come again to the Opposition's sorry record on housing grants. When they came into office in March 1973 they inherited various grants schemes — new house and improvement. The State new house grant was generally of the order of £300 to £325 and was paid mainly to builders, except where applicants were building their own houses. Higher grants were paid to farmers and to people on low incomes. The State reconstruction grant had a maximum of £200, the water grant £75, the sewerage facilities grant £25 and the essential repairs grant £80. The maximum recoupment paid by my Department to local authorities in respect of handicapped persons grants was £400, which meant that the maximum grant paid by the local authorities rarely exceeded £800. Local authorities paid supplementary grants corresponding to the State grants in respect of new houses, reconstruction and water and sewerage.

What did the Coalition do in their four years of office? Did they improve the grants about which they are now shedding crocodile tears? Did they introduce any new scheme of grants? The simple and concise answer is: no, they did not. Let me suggest that "crocodile tears" describes the motion put on the Order Paper by Fine Gael. Their record in Government, when they had the reins of office and when they could have done something for the people that they now cry for, was so deplorable that they should have the good grace to blush about putting down a motion of this type. I would commend the amendment in my own name to the House.

First of all, I cannot say that the Minister here was responsible for either the ills or successes of the Department because he has not been long enough there. But I congratulate the officials of the Department on the tremendous number of local authority houses which they have built in the last 12 months. Unlike my predecessor, unlike the people who were in Opposition when I was in Government, I am prepared to accept their word and to believe that they are telling the truth when they say it. That was not the attitude of Fianna Fáil here; when the figures were put up they denied them and tried to make out that the officials of the Department of Local Government were in cahoots with the Government and were telling lies. I am not prepared to do that. I accept that if the Government say it is so, then it is so. I would advise the Minister when he comes into Opposition — and that will not be too long now — to follow suit.

My comment on what the Minister has just said here tonight is, as the English comic says, "what a load of rubbish". If he really believes half the things he said here he is the most gullible man not alone in this House but in Ireland. When Fianna Fáil were in office they had their plans, as they always have. There is one thing that can be said about Fianna Fáil and that is that they always have plans. The late Seán Lemass, for whom I had a great admiration, always said that success was around the corner, prosperity was around the corner. Fianna Fáil always had something around the corner, something they were going ahead with.

They went into great detail about the number of houses which they felt would be required in the late seventies and coming into the eighties and, having deliberated long about it, they decided that if they were to build 20,000 houses it would be all that the country would require. The Coalition showed that they were in fact talking through their hats by increasing the number so that in four years we succeeded in having built here 101,000 houses which is an average of over 25,000 houses per year. We showed that Fianna Fáil did not know what they were talking about and were not prepared to face up to the situation. They said what they thought would suit themselves and the figure they came up with was around 20,000. The Minister is apparently correct in saying that there were 21,000 houses built in 1972 but the reason for that was that the previous year over 2,000 houses which should have been recorded were held over because of a technical hitch, to use the media term, and they were included in the next year's statistics so that the number of houses actually built in 1972 is down to 19,000. We are proud that we did show Fianna Fáil that the houses were required, could be built and could be paid for.

The funny thing about it all is that Fianna Fáil, when they were in Opposition — and I will again absolve the present Minister who was not there — kept repeating all the time that those houses were not built but when they got back into power they were definitely going to wipe us off the face of the earth with the number of houses they could build and on more than two occasions a gentleman who is no longer in politics as such stated here that he felt that Fianna Fáil would be able to build 30,000 houses. I agree that they did very well last year by building 27,785 houses. But they are still a long way off from the 30,000.

They also said that the number of people employed would grow so much that there would be 50,000 people employed in the building industry. We know from the figures given here today what the situation is in regard to employment in the building industry. We also know from the record of the cement sales over the past two years what the situation is. The only thing I can say is that they must have gone back to the old system of building houses with mud and straw because they are certainly not using cement. I was sorry for Deputy Moore, the Minister, today because he was in a very awkward position which he should not have had to try to defend. But he tried manfully to defend the fact that the sales of cement had dropped and the number of houses had increased by saying that they must have been using imported cement. I would be interested in the reply to that when the Minister is answering.

Despite what the Minister has been saying, the real kernel of the trouble is that Fianna Fáil in their manifesto said first of all that they were going to make it easier for people to own and improve and look after their houses and having said that, at the first opportunity they got, they wiped out completely the improvement grants. That may be all-right for people who live in good new modern houses and for whom grants are not a priority to keep houses in repair. I would like to give this lesson to the Minister for nothing. It does not matter a damn how many new houses are built here. If we are not able to keep the older houses in repair the housing stock must drop. The position we are in now is that the housing stock is dropping because people are unable to get money to keep the older houses in repair.

I am amused at the Minister talking about loans and saying that they increased the amount of the loan and the income limits so that people could get loans. Does the Minister not know that the one thing they did not increase was the amount of money which was being given for these loans? If one offers bigger loans one cannot give as many loans out of the same amount of money. This is what the Department did not alone with regard to the question of secured and unsecured loans for repairing houses but in relation to the SDA loans. I was a member of Meath County Council for many years and they asked the Minister for nearly £2.5 million for SDA loans and for local authority houses this year and got less than £1.25 million. The Minister should not cod himself because he is not codding the House or anybody else about the fact that the SDA loans are available.

Let us come to the question of the amount of money available from the building societies. There was a tremendous increase in the amount of money available to the building societies under two headings because of an Act which was passed in my time. This allowed pension funds to be channelled into building societies, because there is now trustee status for building societies and because we joined the European Monetary Fund and insisted on the repatriation of money which was mainly in Britain. A large amount of money came back here and went into the building societies, a very good thing. Unfortunately it is the only good thing about the EMF because now we have suffered a devaluation of almost 25 per cent, thanks to Fianna Fáil and their foresight in seeing what was going to happen.

I am amused when I listen to the Fianna Fáil spokesmen, particularly somebody as eloquent as the present Minister, putting forward the cases for Fianna Fáil. He excelled himself here tonight because he even laid claim to the low rise mortgage. Does he not know that the low rise mortgage was introduced by me and the Coalition Government? Is he not aware of that or has he got his lines crossed or is he just chancing his arm, feeling that if the newspapers pick it up it will be accepted and nothing more will be said about it? God knows they have little enough to claim credit for and if they could claim credit for this it might be a little bit of help to them.

I do not know where the Minister got the idea about the CRV not being operated properly during the time the Coalision Government were in power because while a Fianna Fáil Minister was responsible for introducing it it did not come into operation until I took over. Looking back on it, I have grave doubts as to whether it would have been introduced if there had not been a change of Government. But I am prepared again to back the Department officials no matter who they are, no matter what posts they hold in the Department. They operated the CRV to the best of their ability then as they are doing now. These snide attacks on those officials are something which should not be engaged in. The Minister talked about the fact that he has called for a survey of housing in all local authority areas and Deputy Fitzpatrick pointed out that a survey was done before. It might not have been done as recently as Deputy Fitzpatrick's memory suggested, but it is not too long ago. I remember it particularly because of the fact that it showed County Mayo as having an appalling number of substandard houses. However, after four years of Coalition Government County Mayo has as fine a housing stock as any other county. The Minister might check his facts before he starts talking about this sort of thing.

The amendment introduced by the Government about their record suggests that they do not know the facts about new houses. In 1976 the average cost of a three bedroom house was £12,258. In 1980 the cost of the same house was £28,287. The Minister says "Did we not increase the new house grant to £1,000? But one cannot wipe out an increase of £16,000 by giving an extra couple of hundred pounds and that is all it was. To those who needed help to buy a house we gave £625 in normal cases and over £900 to people who were in really bad conditions and to small farmers. The Members of the Fianna Fáil front bench came in here in force to shout across the House at me when in the Coalition Government when I introduced a means test for both new houses and for the reconstruction of houses. I make no apology for that because I believe that while resources are scarce those who need are the people who should get and those who do not need should not get a hand out from the State in order to increase their riches. If there is plenty of money there is no reason why there should not be an incentive to people who do not need it, but when money is scarce, as it was and as it now is, the thing to do is to introduce a means test and give to those who need it. Fianna Fáil did not accept that; everybody should get not alone the grant they were getting but much more. They told people to wait until they got into power. However, when they came to power the grants went altogether and many houses badly in need of repair are not being repaired because people have not got the money to repair them.

In relation to the £400 grant for repairs which Deputy Burke sneered at, they applied mainly to people who were very poor. Perhaps Deputy Burke does not understand this but there are many poor people who are very independent and when they wanted to repair their houses they paid for it, as they went along. They did what they could and then saved to complete the job. But the Fianna Fáil Government put a deadline down and told them that if they did not have their houses repaired they would not get any more money so that now unfortunate people who paid every shilling they earned to repair their old houses will not get the extra money they need. A sum of £100 or £200 is nothing to a Member of the Dail or to a Minister, but it is an awful lot to some poor fellow who could not buy a pair of boots because he repaired his house. The Minister should have a good hard look at that. It is not too late yet, and even if his time here is not long he could earn the gratitude of some of these poor old people by giving them their right. They did not know that the money would be stopped.

I am not entirely at one with Deputy Fitzpatrick in relation to the heating grant. The heating grant was introduced with four different versions. The situation was that a man or woman who wanted to instal central heating and who had for instance an immersion heater for hot water did not qualify but the man with central heating who wanted to install solid fuel heating could have both with a grant. That is the way it was interpreted, not because the departmental officials decided it but because the Minister made such a hames of it. Eventually everybody except one section, usually the County Council tenant or the person who bought a council house, could get it.

The scheme did introduce a lot of people into burning solid fuel and as such it saved a lot of oil. The Minister said that people turning to solid fuel saved money because of this fact. Obviously the Minister has not recently met anybody who has bought an eight stone bag of coal for £4.60. It is the most expensive central heating that one could have. A lot of honest people sell coal, but I would advise people who think that the eight stone bag is rather small to weigh it, because I have heard of seven stone bags being passed off for eight stone bags by some coal merchants and it is dear enough without that sort of racket.

In the budget tomorrow the Minister or the Government may reintroduce the reconstruction or house improvement grant and many more of the grants they did away with. I warn them that if it is not done in the budget, when his Government go out, if the Labour Party have anything to do with it, we will reintroduce it because it did more to help the poor than anything else. If we want to encourage people to spend their own money repairing their houses we should give them a little money to do it and not do what Fianna Fáil did, wipe the whole darn lot out because they wanted to buy an executive jet or something. When the next election comes along, they will know what they will get for those antics.

Amendment put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 64; Níl, 33.

  • Ahern, Bertie.
  • Ahern, Kit.
  • Allen, Lorcan.
  • Andrews, David.
  • Andrews, Niall.
  • Aylward, Liam.
  • Barrett, Sylvester.
  • Brady, Gerard.
  • Brady, Vincent.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Browne, Seán.
  • Burke, Raphael P.
  • Callanan, John.
  • Calleary, Seán.
  • Cogan, Barry.
  • Colley, George.
  • Conaghan, Hugh.
  • Connolly, Gerard.
  • Coughlan, Clement.
  • Crinion, Brendan.
  • Cronin, Jerry.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • Doherty, Seán.
  • Fahey, Jackie.
  • Farrell, Joe.
  • Filgate, Eddie.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom (Dublin South-Central).
  • Fox, Christopher J.
  • French, Seán.
  • Gallagher, Dennis.
  • Gallagher, James.
  • Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
  • Gibbons, Jim.
  • Haughey, Charles J.
  • Herbert, Michael.
  • Hussey, Thomas.
  • Kenneally, William.
  • Killeen, Tim.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Lemass, Eileen.
  • Lenihan, Brian.
  • Leonard, Tom.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • Loughnane, William.
  • Lynch, Jack.
  • McCreevy, Charlie.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • McSharry, Ray.
  • Molloy, Robert.
  • Moore, Seán.
  • Morley, P.J.
  • Nolan, Tom.
  • Noonan, Michael.
  • O'Connor, Timothy C.
  • O'Donoghue, Martin.
  • O'Hanlon, Rory.
  • O'Leary, John.
  • Reynolds, Albert.
  • Smith, Michael.
  • Walsh, Joe.
  • Walsh, Seán.
  • Walsh, Seán.
  • Wilson, John P.
  • Woods, Michael J.
  • Wyse, Pearse.

Níl

  • Barry, Myra.
  • Barry, Richard.
  • Begley, Michael.
  • Belton, Luke.
  • Bermingham, Joseph.
  • Bruton, John.
  • Burke, Joan.
  • Burke, Liam.
  • Byrne, Hugh.
  • Cluskey, Frank.
  • Collins, Edward.
  • Corish, Brendan.
  • Cosgrave, Liam.
  • Deasy, Martin A.
  • Donnellan, John F.
  • Enright, Thomas W.
  • FitzGerald, Garret.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom (Cavan-Monaghan).
  • Griffin, Brendan.
  • Harte, Patrick D.
  • Keating, Michael.
  • Kenny, Ends.
  • Mannion, John M.
  • Mitchell, Jim.
  • O'Brien, William.
  • O'Donnell, Tom.
  • O'Keeffe, Jim.
  • O'Toole, Paddy.
  • Pattison, Séamus.
  • Ryan, John J.
  • Taylor, Frank.
  • Timmins, Godfrey.
  • Tully, James.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Moore and Briscoe; Níl, Deputies W. O'Brien and Kenny.
Amendment declared carried.
Motion, as amended, agreed to.
The Dáil adjourned at 8.40 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 28 January 1981.
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