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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 10 Feb 1981

Vol. 326 No. 7

Adjournment Debate. - Inchicore (Dublin) Rail Coach Building.

I would like to thank you for allowing me to raise this important question on the adjournment this evening. This question is not only an important local matter but is an important national one.

It is a deplorable practice that information on important matters of this nature have to be dragged out of the Government in the House. The Irish Times reported last week that CIE had placed an order for a number of coaches with a German firm. Neither CIE nor the Minister for Transport has denied or affirmed those reports, either to The Irish Times or other newspapers, nor would they deny or confirm them to me. It is disgraceful and cowardly behaviour on the part of the Minister and his Department. At the very time unemployment has reached one-eighth of a million, we hear that a number of coaches — it is reported as 20, we do not know the exact number but I presume we can drag that out of the Minister also — are ordered to be built in Germany when they could have been built at Inchicore, where there is a tradition of coach building for well over a century. They are not being built at Inchicore because of the failure of the Government to decide on anything of a long-term nature as far as transport is concerned.

There is a long tradition of bus and rail coach building in Inchicore. Inchicore, where I was born and reared and now, happily represent, was developed around both CIE works. Every family in the area is deeply concerned by matters affecting CIE. Inchicore has already gone through the major trauma of losing the bus building industry, not because of any lack of skills, or because of anything wanting on the part of the work force, but because of the disgraceful Government decision to dispose of the bus building industry to a private enterprise firm, whose major partner was from Belgium. The net result was that it went totally wrong. Van Hool McArdle caved in after a few years, the workers were left high and dry and the bus building industry closed down, never to be brought back to Inchicore.

A new bus building industry has been created in Shannon but is lost to Inchicore, where the skills still exist, either among unemployed men or among men otherwise employed but not using those skills. Ever since losing the bus building industry, there has been deep fear in Inchicore railway works about its future. At present, in Inchicore there is deep despair and anger. The Minister has managed, on the very day that record unemployment is announced, to create, I do not know how many jobs, for Linke Hofmann Busch in Germany. We cannot totally quantify the amount of job losses there will be in Inchicore and elsewhere in CIE as a result. Fianna Fáil stated in their manifesto that they would create 10,000 new jobs from what they called import substitution. They would make a transfer of 3 per cent from imports to home produced goods. What has happened in the past four years is that we have increased imports by 2 per cent. We are now buying from the Germans what we could produce at home. We have a large work force of skilled men who are ready, willing and able to do this work. It is a disgraceful situation. It is an appalling fact that not one of the Fianna Fáil Deputies for that area has ever raised this question in the House or is present for this debate. That shows their concern for the fate of the work force in Inchicore.

Not only is there despair and anger over this terrible decision and the way in which it was dragged out of the Minister, there is fear because of the uncertainty about the future. There will be no reassurance in the reply that the Minister gave today to my question and to that of my colleague, Deputy Austin Deasy, shadow Minister for Transport. The Minister said that in the meantime he would envisage that the provision of rail coaches at Inchicore will be necessary. He uses the unusual word "provision". He does not say that the building of rail coaches is envisaged. There is a total doubt about what the Minister said. Will the Minister spell it out, loud and clear: is there a future for Inchicore works? Is the CIE proposal to recreate a new coach building industry in Inchicore under their own aegis, in association with Linke, Hofmann Busch, going to be implemented. I do not want the Minister to fob me off or to fob the work force of Inchicore off by saying he is awaiting the McKinsey Report. He has already put enough jobs on the long finger. He has put 20 coaches, which could have been manufactured here, on the long finger. The time for procrastination has long since gone. The Minister has an absolute duty to the workers at Inchicore and their families, to make the provision about the future clear. Will there or will there not be work? Will rail coaches be built there? The Minister can, as is his wont, waffle in his reply but that reply will be circulated to every worker in Inchicore within 48 hours of this debate. Let them judge whether the Minister is in the least concerned about them or their future.

A most distressing thing about this whole matter is that the Minister's word is already totally devalued. A commitment was given to the trade unions representing the Inchicore workers as part of the deal to get acceptance of the transfer of the bus building industry to Bombardier at Shannon, that there would be a rail coach building industry at Inchicore. That guarantee was given by the chairman of the CIE Board to the unions and to me personally when I headed a deputation to meet him. This was the sop to get the unions to withdraw their opposition to the removal of the bus building industry from Inchicore to Shannon. Not only that but it was guaranteed that this work would be done by CIE themselves using jigs and designs of Linke Hofmann Busch and not as previously proposed, have a rail coach building industry owned or controlled by Linke Hofmann Busch.

This is all gone now or certainly put greatly in doubt by the disclosure here today dragged from the Minister. In his reply to my supplementary questions and those of other Deputies the Minister said he was not aware that the chairman of CIE had given a commitment. I do not believe the Minister, and if it is true that he was not so aware, he should resign in any case. If he was not aware, it shows how unconcerned he is about the fate of Inchicore and its workforce.

The Deputy might be said to have a vested interest in it, and a big one.

I certainly have a very deep interest in representing the people of Inchicore and that general area and if the Deputy had any sense he would have an interest in it —

I have. I have been through it also.

— because his own constituency is not a million miles from Inchicore works. I want the Minister to clarify this point, whether he knew of the commitment given by the chairman of the Board of CIE that a rail coach building industry would be set up at Inchicore under the aegis of CIE, using jigs and designs of Linke Hofmann Busch provided the Government gave its approval. The Minister told me in reply to a previous question that such a submission had been made by CIE but that he had not made any decision on it. That was a few months ago. That is why I do not believe that the Minister did not know. The Minister knew all right. The Minister is laughing—

I am laughing at the audacity of the Deputy in trying to twist words.

The Minister is grinning at the fate of the workers of Inchicore and of that whole area.

Laughing at the Deputy, not at them.

This decision will have much wider social implications than the survival of the Inchicore works. It has major social connotations for the whole area, and Ballyfermot on the other side of the Inchicore works, out in to Drimnagh and Bluebell and so on where most of the workforce live.

With unemployment so high here, it is a very sad day when we have to order from Germany coaches that could have been built here if a decision had been made in time by this careless, unconcerned, drifting Government and this careless, unconcerned, drifting Minister.

I do not accept that the delay in issuing the findings of or the Government decision on the McKinsey Report is a legitimate reason for postponing the building of railway carriages so badly needed for our main railway lines. It is now a legitimate reason. I say in all sincerity that rail passenger coaches must be built for the simple reason that there is no way in which sections of the railway will be closed down as public opinion will not allow any further reduction in the present rail system. It will not be tolerated and the Government know that. Long ago they should have begun the construction of rail passenger coaches at Inchicore.

The fact is that there are 343 rail carriages in use on our rail system and 207 of them are more than 20 years old. I believe that the last time a railway passenger coach was delivered to CIE was in 1973, eight years ago. The time for a construction programme is long overdue irrespective of the findings of the McKinsey Report. No matter what the Government say one of their decisions will not be to reduce the railway system which in my opinion will have to be left in its entirety. So that is not a valid reason for postponing construction of the coaches. Must we have another Buttevant train disaster before the Government realise that the rolling stock is in such a dilapidated condition? If so, the Minister for Transport and the Government as a whole will be held responsible because there have been warnings time and again from CIE senior management that they have not sufficient rolling stock to operate the railway system properly. Last summer the rail service between Cork and Youghal had to be discontinued because CIE did not have enough passenger coaches in service to run that scheduled summer operation. In 1960 there were over 600 rail passenger coaches in operation in CIE; at present there are 343 and 207 of them are over 20 years old.

Meanwhile there is a startling statistic which backs up my contention that any further portions of the railway system cannot be closed down. In 1970 the railway system carried nine million passengers. By 1980 the number of passengers carried had doubled to 18 million and in the face of statistics like that, no Government could reduce the railway system any further. The rail system must be retained in its entirety. The Government are duty-bound to provide the rolling-stock which, as Deputy Mitchell said, was guaranteed to be built at Inchicore. That is what we are asking tonight and what we asked today at Question Time, that there be a commitment and a definite time schedule for the construction of these locomotives.

I am amazed at the cheap political gimmickry used in this debate tonight. Every question asked today at Question Time was fully answered, and left no room for doubt in anybody's mind and for Deputy Mitchell to come in here and try to——

(Interruptions.)

—— say that neither the Fianna Fáil Party nor I have any concern for the people of Inchicore. We have a great deal more concern for them than the Opposition Deputies have and did not have to employ cheap political gimmickry in relation to the Inchicore situation. To say to this House that my word is devalued is an insult.

Where are the Fianna Fáil Deputies?

My word has never been devalued by anyone outside this House before I came into it or within it as long as I am here. Neither Deputy Mitchell nor any other Opposition Deputy will come into this House and try to cast any reflection on my word. My word, throughout my business career and in the other aspects of my life, is my bond. No Deputy using cheap political gimmickry will undermine that situation, in regard to myself, the management of CIE or the trade unions. I know a lot more about what is going on and if the Deputy bothered to find out the situation he could. The Deputy said such an assurance was given. No such assurance was given. The Deputy did not say where he got the assurance. He certainly never got it from me and cannot talk about my word being devalued. The Deputy must not try to mislead the House or, as he probably will, circularise the workers of Inchicore. The Deputy is trying to undermine the secure jobs which are there. What I said today regarding the situation in Inchicore was quite clear to everybody. The Deputy, however, is not interested in the truth and never was. He is more interested in cheap political gimmickry like the circular he sent around to the people in Inchicore last July. In that circular he did not say, as he has said tonight, that he got that assurance. I am sure if he had had that assurance then he would have spoken about it.

What about the factory you promised to build in Castlepollard?

Please, Deputy, no interruptions.

My word is my bond and I stand over it.

Where is the factory you promised for Castlepollard?

Nobody interrupted the Deputy. Please.

Where is the factory you promised in Castlepollard to get the County Westmeath votes?

If the Deputy would listen to my answer there would not be people in the Opposition saying they could not understand clear, sound English today. Let them listen to the truth and let them understand the clear English which I am going to hand out. If Deputy Mitchell wants a copy of my answer, I shall give it to him.

The promise of a factory in Castlepollard was made to get the Westmeath votes.

There is a factory in Castlepollard, in case the Deputy does not know. However, there is another very serious question which was raised by Deputy Deasy.

The Minister said his word is his bond.

There has never been a suggestion by the management of CIE that they were using any carriages which were unsafe, and to throw out the callous suggestion that the rail crash at Buttevant was caused by unsafe carriages is unbecoming of any Deputy in this House. The report of that inquiry will be made available and each and everyone of us should be prepared to wait for it. Never at any time was there any question of any rolling stock being unsafe as regards CIE or anybody else.

What about Inchicore?

How does the Minister know, if the report has not been published?

The inquiry was held immediately and the report will be published. I do not want anyone to say that I fob people off, or waffle. I face up to the realities of life but the people opposite do not face up to them. I heard Deputy Deasy accusing this Government of what they do or do not do. All I have heard is muddled, woolly and double thinking. The Opposition Deputies say to me "what do you want to do, give away all the good parts of CIE to private enterprise?" That is on the record of the House, and the fact that I was told to do what I liked with the rest of CIE.

We are asking the Minister to build the coaches for CIE in Inchicore.

If that is the concern shown by the people on the Opposition benches for the people in Inchicore and the workers in this country, let me tell the Deputies that that is not my approach to it. I have plenty of evidence in the records of this House to show the thinking in relation to this. I never heard a comment from the Deputies in relation to the McKinsey Report.

We have not heard a comment about policy.

The Deputies want to sit there but do not want to engage in public debate. Listen to this statement and I will give the Deputies a copy if they cannot understand it.

I should say at the outset that the original CIE proposals in 1977 for the electrification of the Howth-Bray suburban services envisaged that the rolling stock would be supplied under an agreement with the German firm Linke Hofmann Busch which provided inter alia for the establishment of a coach-building industry at Inchicore. The continued viability of this industry would have been dependent upon CIE acquiring 500 mainline coaches within the next ten years or so, including stock not only for the Howth-Bray service and the mainline services but also for an extended rapid rail service for Dublin. CIE's definitive proposals for the extended rapid rail system have not been received. The transport consultative commission, in the report dated March 1980 on passenger transport services in the Dublin area, recommended further evaluation of the extended rapid rail system having regard to the scale of the expenditure involved. A working group under the auspices of the Dublin Transportation Task Force is looking into the question, along with other rail and road transport investment proposals for the Dublin area in order to get a complete picture of needs and priorities. Similarly, CIE's proposals for new mainline coaches which envisage a total of 242 units in the period up to 1987 could not be considered, pending the outcome of the McKinsey study of CIE which was initiated in late 1979.

The long finger.

The Deputy should listen, or he will not be able to understand this as well. It will be appreciated, therefore, that decisions on CIE's original proposals for the establishment of a coach-building industry at Inchicore were preempted by a number of factors. In addition, the trade unions were opposed to the proposals, in so far as they involved Linke Hofmann Busch as a principal. In the meantime, decisions had to be taken on the acquisition of rolling stock for the Howth-Bray line. The conditions of the existing suburban coaches, allied to the growing number of passengers, is making it increasingly difficult for CIE to maintain its services. The total number of coaches required for the electrified service is 80, comprising 40 electric units and 40 trailer cars. Even under the CIE original proposals, it was not envisaged at any stage that the 40 motor units would be built here. Moreover, the Linke Hofmann Busch proposals were based on the development of a manufacturing facility by first building the mainline stock and following with the suburban trailer cars. It will be clear, therefore, that the question of supply of some of the rolling stock for the Howth-Bray line from Inchicore hinged on CIE's original proposal for a package agreement with Linke Hofmann Busch. Since that package agreement could not be proceeded with, the only way to ensure that the rolling stock for the Howth-Bray line would be available in time for the introduction of electric services early in 1983 was to get it from abroad.

As I indicated in this House today, CIE have placed an order with a German firm for the provision of the rolling stock. The placing of an order does not, of course, mean the disemployment, as was suggested, of any people at Inchicore. I am, of course, anxious to ensure the creation of as much employment in this country as possible. As far as rail coach-building is concerned, I indicated in my reply today that I envisaged that the provision of rail coaches at Inchicore would be necessary. What remains to be determined is the scope and extent of the activities which will be involved. Naturally, this will depend on the Government's considerations of the McKinsey Report and on whatever decisions are taken regarding the long-term role of the railway. The capital allocation for CIE in 1981 is £49 million, which is double the allocation for 1980 which, in itself, represented a 60 per cent increase on the previous year. So much for the accusations of no capital allocations. The allocation of £49 million represents a huge sum of money in any one year for any undertaking and it contains adequate provisions for CIE to proceed with the acquisition of new mainline coaches in 1981. As Deputies will be aware, the Government have stated that the McKinsey proposals on CIE are to be the subject of open debate. I indicated quite clearly in my reply here today that nobody sets up a business until he, first of all, quantifies what he needs.

They are at that since 1942.

This matter will be the subject of discussion between the trade unions and myself in the very near future and with the board of CIE in the very near future. Let me tell the Deputies that the scares which the Deputies are trying to put around here today are totally unfounded. I could quote as many newspaper reports as Deputy Mitchell did that would give a totally different view. I know the game that the Deputy is playing here tonight. It is to undermine the confidence of CIE workers in Inchicore and indeed, in Deputy Deasy's allegations, to undermine the total confidence of the CIE work force in this Government. That is not going to happen. The Deputies will, at some stage, have the opportunity to put it to the test.

Send the paper to Inchicore.

Let me say to Deputy Mitchell that all the factors which he mentioned here this evening, I have no doubt, were taken fully into consideration by the CIE board when they reached their decision in relation to the procurement of mainline coaches for the Howth-Bray electrification. Is the Deputy seriously suggesting that the carriages which are there should be left there? Does he ever travel on that line? I have travelled on it and I know the state of the carriages.

Why are they not going to be built in Inchicore, as promised?

All the factors which the Deputy has mentioned here today and tonight would have been taken into consideration by the board of CIE in relation to their decision in the final analysis. Job creation will be maximised and I have always said it would be maximised. I have told CIE that, in relation to the Howth-Bray line. The Deputy may not be aware that 70 jobs are being created down in Tralee in relation to it.

Some consolation for the CIE workers in Inchicore.

Let me say that there are 200 people already empoyed there. I know that the Deputy does not want to hear the positive aspects. He is only interested in the negative aspects.

I want to hear the overall aspects.

The record is clear. I do not fob off anybody. I do not stand away from questions and never did. I keep answering them, but if people cannot understand, or if they are not getting the answers that they want, well I cannot help that. There was no assurance given by me. My word is my bond and I stand over that. If the Deputies have assurances from anybody else, I say, go back to where they got them and do not try to mislead this House or the constituents or anybody else by saying they got the assurances from me, because they did not.

The Dáil adjourned at 9.00 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 11 February 1981.

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