asked the Minister for Justice, whether he is satisfied that arrangements for maintaining order in prisons will be maintained in view of recent reports (details supplied) of threats of a walkout because of an alleged breach of discipline and if he will make a statement on the action, if any, he proposes to take to deal with the matter and on the implications of the threats for the prison system generally.
Private Notice Questions. - Prison Discipline.
The problems to which the Deputies refer and which have received some newspaper publicity are at present the subject of discussions between officials of my Department and the Prison Officers' Association. Any statement from me at this time could prejudice these discussions and in the circumstances I would prefer not to make a statement.
Shall it become necessary to do so, I will make a full statement on the matter in due course.
Does the Minister accept that the recent incident is not a new situation which has arisen but is another in a sequence of events which points at the indiscipline in the prison system? Does he propose to give the House a guarantee now that there is no danger of the prison system collapsing and virtual anarchy reigning in the prisons? Could the Minister give that assurance now?
The Deputy can be accused of wishful thinking.
That shallow comment ill-befits the Minister and speaks for itself. Does the Minister accept that an assurance given by his former Parliamentary Secretary, Deputy D. Andrews, in the House, when he said that overtime in the Prison Service was no longer necessary, is now the central element of the problem, because any evening after 5 o'clock there is no guarantee of how many officers will be available in the prisons and that that has led to enormous friction? This incident is about an alleged assault on an officer by another officer. What does the Minister intend to do about that situation, which is intolerable in the prison system?
As I have already said to the Deputy, this matter is the subject of discussion between officials of my Department and the Prison Officers' Association. I do not propose to make any further statement on it.
The Minister has been discussing it for years.
This matter is under discussion between officials of my Department and the Prison Officers' Association. If it is necessary for me to make a statement on this issue, I will do so.
With regard to overtime, there is a problem about that and I have been endeavouring to work out with the Prison Officers' Association a roster system which would greatly alleviate that problem. A certain amount of progress has been made and I would like to think that more progress can be made. If that problem can be solved it will be much easier to run the prison system, because overtime is a problem, not that there is any restriction by me as Minister on the amount of money that can be spent to provide a full service for the prison system. That is not so.
Is the Minister aware that there is deep concern on the part of the public that there have been 17 breakouts since the start of this year and allegations with regard to political promotions within the system and that in fact there is a deep malaise which is obviously affecting the system? Will the Minister accept that he has a clear responsibility to make a statement to the House to allay those fears and to indicate what his policy will be in the future in regard to having a prison system here in which the public and the prison officers can have confidence.
I find it very difficult to see how Deputy O'Keeffe can be in any way sincere in what he is trying to say now when only a few months ago we had a full discussion on the prison system in the House and Deputy O'Keeffe did not bother to come in to contribute.
I was in foreign parts. The Minister knows very well it was not my brief.
The particular spokesman for the Deputy's party did not raise the points the Deputy has just raised. With regard to breakouts, we have had a number of abscondings. I dealt with this matter last week. There were only two breakouts within the system and there were 15 other prisoners who absconded.
(Interruptions.)
Does the Deputy want his questions answered?
Yes.
Will the Deputy please allow me to do so? Deputy O'Keeffe forgets that last Thursday I gave a very full and comprehensive answer on the question of people who absconded from prison. I also gave figures of those who came back, which the Deputy conveniently forgets today. Let me remind him that during my term as Minister for Justice there have not been any helicopters coming into our prisons and we have not had any trucks breaking into our prisons. We have not had any explosives used by prisoners to break out of prison. With regard to the fears which the Deputy feels exist in people's minds in regard to the way the prison system is run, the Deputy would do well to ask some of his colleagues what the situation was in my predecessor's time compared with the situation now.
With regard to the third point raised by the Deputy, political promotions within the prison system, the Deputy is welcome at any time to come into the House and put the facts on the table and we will deal with them. As far as I am concerned there was not, and there will not be, any political favouritism in the prison system. I hope the Deputy's predecessor and his party can say the same thing with regard to when they were in Government.
That is a disgraceful charge.
(Interruptions.)
Five gardaí have been shot in the last two years.