Last evening I was replying to the points made by Deputy Colley and I would again like to take this opportunity of thanking him for his comprehensive contribution to the debate. I would now like to reply to some points made by other Deputies who contributed to the debate. Deputy Oliver J. Flanagan made a long and wide-ranging speech on a number of aspects of the activities of the ESB. I agree with him, in principle, when he says it is important that we cut down the amount of oil imports and rely, as far as is economically possible and feasible, on our own natural resources. In this respect I call the Deputy's attention to the prospect for natural gas usage within our economy.
In relation to the question of coal burning stations, I would like to refer him to the Government's plans in the jointly agreed Fine Gael and Labour policy document. I refer him to point 6 of our programme under the heading of Industry, Commerce and Energy:
Pending a significant oil find in Irish waters, no more oil burning power stations will be built and the dependence of the national power system on oil will be reduced to one-third through a switch to coal and to alternative energy sources.
I would also like to remind Deputy Flanagan that in the course of my speech I pointed out that by the end of the present decade we will be moving to a dependence on oil for generating electricity from the present position of 60 per cent to 40 per cent, which would be a significant move in the right direction.
Deputy Flanagan also referred to industrial relations in the ESB. I consider these to be of paramount importance to the economy. In view of the fact that I have not had a report on the balloting of the comprehensive agreement among the unions involved in the ESB, I feel I am precluded from making any further statement on industrial relations in the ESB. I hope the comprehensive agreement will be accepted by all the unions involved and that we can look forward to a long period of industrial peace within the Electricity Supply Board.
The Deputy laid great stress on the Leinster coalfields. The survey of these coalfields will be completed as speedily as possible by the technical experts involved. I am anxious to ensure that any workable coal seams which come to light will be exploited and that intensive efforts will be made to use the realisable resources of Arigna crow coal. Every effort to use that and other sources of coal and anthracite will be made. It is important that we should be satisfied that it is technically and economically feasible to develop any such fields. Such a valuable and indigenous source of coal will not be neglected by the Minister. However, we must be sure that the reserve is workable and economical. I want to make that quite clear to the House.
Deputy Flanagan also was quite clearly against the nuclear energy concept. I have already made known my position on that in answer to Deputy Colley's submission. Deputy Keegan also stressed the desire to develop our natural resources and was anxious to ensure full development of mini or micro hydro schemes. Obviously any move towards using alternative sources of energy would be welcome. However, I would point out that such schemes are, by and large, in the experimental stage.
I referred in my introductory speech, to the four wind machines for electricity generation which are being erected at various points. The ESB are satisfied that there are, in fact, few hydro possibilities left of any sizeable scale. The ESB have recently completed a very small hydro scheme at Parteen Weir, County Tipperary, which has a capacity of only 0.6 megawatts. All other similar potentials are being considered. With regard to wind generation programmes, there is considerable potential for small private units, say, supplying a farm, as was suggested, or a small business. The possibility of the sale of any surplus energy to the ESB grid would be kept in mind. I intend to formulate and support an experimental demonstration programme on private mini hydros and to provide some funds to grant-assist well executed projects. I remind Deputies that, while the technology is not difficult, the cost can be fairly substantial, relative to output.
I thank Deputy Sherlock for his contribution and his support of the Bill. He made a number of valuable points. He was very concerned that many people, especially those on fixed incomes, are unable to pay ESB bills. I take the point. There are certain categories, old age pensioners and such, who are given a free electricity allowance. I can see a situation where some people find themselves in a distressed position in so far as payment of their ESB bills is concerned. I suggest that that is not the responsibility of the Department of Energy. The question of family support and income support is quite clearly the responsibility of other Departments.
I remind the House that the ESB are by statute, obliged to operate on a non-loss-making basis and I must discharge my duties as Minister in that regard. I do not like the need for the fuel variation cost charges being put on some people's bills. Nevertheless, the energy crisis which began in the mid-seventies still exists. The fuel cost variation is a fact of life. I can only say that the legislation, as passed by this House, obliges the ESB to pay their way, year in, year out. That is the position which will have to be maintained. No other position would be acceptable to this House.
Deputy Sherlock also mentioned the extremely high cost of installation of electricity supply. I must refer him to the ESB's position in relation to rural electrification. The ESB say that about 99 per cent of all rural householders are now connected to the ESB. However, a number of houses remain unconnected, whose owners or occupants, for one reason or another, have no electricity supply. In some cases, the householder concerned refused, or did not take up, offers of subsidised supply. In other cases, the houses in question were built after the subsidisation scheme and, therefore, are not eligible for subsidised electricity.
Under the ESB (Amendment) Act, 1976, all householders who have found themselves unable to pay and declined to accept connection on the terms offered under the previous 1971-75 rural electrification scheme were offered connection on terms which did not require the payment of a capital contribution. Work under this scheme is still in progress and will be substantially completed this year. Twenty-six houses have still to be connected. Some farmers who failed to obtain a connection under rural electrification schemes may be eligible under the FEOGA scheme.
It is estimated that approximately 10,000 to 12,000 new houses are being constructed annually in rural areas. The ESB have been at pains to bring to the notice of persons building new houses that the location of a house in relation to the electricity distribution lines can significantly affect the cost of connection to the supply. In practice, unfortunately, some rural householders have very little choice in relation to sites. It should be mentioned that certain county councils may be able to make grants towards the cost of electricity connection to county council dwellings.
Following ministerial consultation with the chairman and board of the ESB in 1978, the board agreed to more generous connection terms for rural domestic houses, whereby the first £160 and 50 per cent of the cost in excess of £850 is met by the board. Deferred payment facilities over a period of five years are also made available.
I would not consider the ESB position to be a generous one in the light of inflation over the last three years. I am under-taking to examine the current cost practice of the ESB in this regard and I intend making representations to the board of the ESB to have a review of their attitude towards the subsidisation of new electricity connections in rural areas.
I would like briefly to mention the question of the FEOGA scheme as it applies to electrification schemes in the west. I hope to bring before the House in the very near future a Supplementary Estimate to allow the ESB to partake in this FEOGA scheme, which would be subsidised substantially from FEOGA funds, because it will be of immense benefit to the western region. It will benefit farmers by way of new supplies, improved supplies and, in some cases, by the installation of three-phased supplies. I would not like to go into this scheme in detail until I have an opportunity of bringing the necessary Supplementary Estimate before the House.
Deputy Keegan referred to the non-accountability of the ESB to this House. I cannot accept that point. There are a number of channels through which the ESB are accountable to this House. As Minister, I am responsible for the proper running and management of the ESB in a broad context and for the operation of the various Electricity Supply Bills. Members can put down parliamentary questions on matters affecting the ESB. They can raise questions on the Adjournment. We have the Committee of Public Accounts which examine the positions of Departments every year; and there is the Joint Committee on State-Sponsored Bodies. All these channels are open to Members who wish to question the activities of the ESB. Therefore, I cannot accept the charge that the ESB are not amenable to Dáil accountability.
The manufacture of wood briquettes is another possibility to which I have already referred, especially in relation to forest thinnings.
While I have not had time to carry out a full review of all the strands of the energy policy which I wish to pursue, I can indicate to the House that the following appear to be the main pillars which I am anxious to pursue. I think it is essential that we have a cohesive integrated energy policy, all the elements of which are in broad harmony with one another, but with sufficient flexibility to allow for the changes which no system of forecasting, no matter how perfect, can fully take account of.
While the order in which I mention them does not indicate the order of preference, I hope to press on with an examination of the following major items.
First, to get construction on the gas pipeline from Kinsale under way at the earliest possible date and to get a supply flowing to the homes of Dublin city, and to other cities and towns between Kinsale and Dublin as far as possible within the time span of a few years.
Second, to pursue vigorously the search for oil and gas and to lay on the benefits of this to the economy as early as possible. Included in that will be a policy of the maximum possible refining in Ireland of any oil or gas finds.
Third, to ensure that the ESB carry through their capital development programme consistent with the expected needs. In the course of my reply yesterday I indicated that there is an extensive programme in hand, with sufficient flexibility to meet changes.
Fourth, to reduce the dependence on oil not only for the purposes of electrical generation, and as I said yesterday this has been partly achieved, with a drop from 60 — 40 per cent by the end of the present decade. This will be pressed further in view of the cost and the possible insecurity of supply throughout the eighties and to the end of this century and after. The same will apply towards the switch away by heavy industry, in as far as I can encourage and develop this trend for industry and commercial enterprise as well.
Fifth, to encourage and foster an effective programme of conservation, and I mean this in the wider sense including the pursuit of research and development for realistic alternative sources of energy, giving priority to as much of this from indigenous sources including bog development as I can.
In the very short term I intend to look at the security of our strategic stocks of oil on Irish soil and also on the strong desirability of having refining capacity operational in Ireland. No modern economy can stand a disruption of even a very short time of its economic life due to a break in supplies or shortages for any reason whatsoever. In common with all countries of Europe, which have taken very significant steps in regard to stocks, I intend to look very critically at this area so that our small economy, with its need for growth and stability, will in no way be jeopardised by any problems on the oil supply front.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank Deputy Colley and other Deputies for their contributions which I value very highly. I recommend the Bill to the House.