(Limerick East) asked the Minister for Industry and Energy if he will give a commitment to supply Limerick city with natural gas from the Kinsale gas field.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Natural Gas for Limerick City.
15.
While my first priority in regard to natural gas must be the bringing of the gas to Dublin, my overall aim is to extend supply and expand the natural gas grid to as many of the premium markets outside the Dublin area as quickly as possible. I intend, in due course, to have plans drawn up on the feasibility of laying on natural gas to Limerick, also the south-east and other centres outside Dublin, provided of course that this can be achieved on an economic basis.
Limerick Gas have already, at the specific request of my Department, engaged consultants to see what needs to be done by the company to make it a safe and efficient distributor of natural gas. Provided any necessary measures are accomplished, Limerick, because of its density of population, potential for a premium gas market and in order to alleviate the serious situation of the existing gas enterprise there, will clearly merit early consideration for connection to the main pipeline.
I must stress that, while I am anxious to proceed as quickly as possible with the lay on of natural gas to premium markets in various parts of the country, I have no intention of allowing this valuable natural resource to be used as a cushion for inefficiencies in the gas industry. An essential prerequisite for an allocation of natural gas for distribution will be a demonstration by the distributor that he has taken the necessary measures to achieve a commercially efficient operation.
I must also emphasise again that for the immediate future my priority concern will be to ensure the successful completion of the main Cork-Dublin pipeline since decisions on further extension of the system will be strongly influenced by the technical and financial outcome of this major project. While study and preplanning of the problems and economics of connecting other areas to the main pipeline may — and indeed should — proceed, I would not wish to create the impression that firm decisions on such proposals are an immediate prospect.
(Limerick East): The Minister is surveying the possibility of extending natural gas to Limerick. Will he also include in that survey an examination of the possibility of extending the pipeline down the estuary to serve industrial developments on the Shannon?
I have publicly requested concerns which would be major users of natural gas to put proposals before my Department for consideration. If the Deputy has any specific company in mind they should put plans before my Department at an early date for consideration.
Will the Minister of State also include in his survey larger settlements in the mid-west region such as Thurles, Nenagh, Ennis and other points? I appreciate that the Minister is concerned with the long-term prospects, but these areas are concerned about obtaining the benefits of these facilities.
I would suggest to the Deputy that he indicate to the relevant public authorities or concerns my reply to this question in so far as it pertains to an invitation from my Department to municipal authorities or business and industrial concerns and co-operatives to put proposals before my Department for consideration.
The Minister said that he would be considering Limerick as a priority because of its growth in population. I would like to point out that Ennis and Shannon are a part of that growing population in the mid-west. I would therefore ask the Minister to consider Shannon and Ennis when extending the gas pipeline.
If any public gas utility or major or industrial concern wishes to put proposals before my Department they are welcome to do so and such proposals will be given consideration.
(Limerick East): When does the Minister consider that the examination of the possibility of extending gas to places like Limerick will be completed? When does the Minister think he will be in a position to give a firm commitment on these extensions?
I would not like to indicate any specific date for the extension of natural gas to any area. It is important that my Department be fully satisfied as to the safety and efficiency of any gas utility. My Department will not give a commitment to any gas utility or any concern until it is satisfied that the gas can be distributed both safely and efficiently.
Is there any survey being carried out on the possibility of extending the pipeline to the forgotten west? Nobody has mentioned it at all. Is there any proposal whatsoever to extend the pipeline to the west?
At this point I must repeat myself and say that my Department will consider proposals from relevant utilities and commercial and other concerns in connection with the supply of gas. My concern is that the gas will be distributed efficiently and safely.
Would the Minister agree that a guarantee has already been given to the Limerick Gas Company to build a spur from the gas pipeline from Kinsale to Dublin to serve Limerick? This spur is to be built simultaneously with the main pipeline. Would the Minister agree that this matter is now extremely urgent in view of the precarious state of the finances of the Limerick Gas Company?
My Department has already specifically requested the Limerick Gas Company to engage consultants and they have done so. I am quite satisfied that when we have the necessary consultants' report available and the necessary action is taken by Limerick Corporation we can look forward to the early laying on of gas to Limerick. The Deputy will appreciate that much planning has to be done before the pipeline can be laid. There is also the question of the acquisition of wayleaves on the route. Now that the main route for the Cork to Dublin pipeline has been established the forward planning with regard to the supply to Limerick can commence.
I had intended to ask a different question, but in view of what we have heard perhaps the Minister of State would tell the House whether or not he accepts as accurate the statement made by Deputy Kemmy that, without any consultants' report or any examination of the factors involved, a commitment has already been given by the Minister for Industry and Energy to supply natural gas to Limerick at or about the same time as the pipeline is being built from Cork to Dublin. That is the statement made by Deputy Kemmy. I would like the Minister to tell us whether or not that is correct.
(Interruptions.)
I can assure the Deputy that the Tánaiste and the Government are fully committed to giving natural gas to Limerick and to other gas utilities near the pipeline which can be supplied in an economic fashion. We are also giving a commitment that major industrial concerns and major co-operatives, factories and so on will also be supplied on condition that the supply can be laid on in an efficient manner and that it can be laid safely so far as the public are concerned. We are very anxious to develop a national gas grid that will bring the benefits of natural gas to all cities and towns, to industrial and agricultural concerns, in order that the nation as a whole may benefit from natural gas.
Why is the Minister bothering with the expense of a consultants' report if a commitment has already been made?
I am surprised that the former Tánaiste and Minister for Energy would ask such a question because he knows well that natural gas cannot and will not be laid on to any utility or company until such time as the Department are satisfied that the laying on of the gas is safe and efficient. That is the criterion to be used.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Kemmy said the opposite.
There is a commitment in principle to supply natural gas where and when it can be supplied safely and efficiently.
I understand from the Minister's reply that Mitchelstown, Charleville, Mallow Sugar Factory, and other places around Kanturk will be supplied by the pipeline that services Limerick. Is that correct?
I have already answered that question.
(Interruptions.)
(Clare): With regard to the natural gas pipeline, the contract price is about £30 million. Is the Minister aware that in the mid-seventies the estimates given to the then Minister for Transport and Power was about £130 million? Can the Minister give any reason for the discrepancy between the mid-seventies price and the present one?
The difference is because my Department and An Bord Gáis Éireann have finally tackled the question of the laying of the Cork-Dublin gas line in an efficient and constructive manner. It is thanks to our interest and involvement in the project that we now have a price for the Cork-Dublin gas pipeline, which is extremely competitive and satisfactory.
(Clare): Is the Minister of State aware that this estimate in excess of £130 million was given by a colleague of his during the life of the previous National Coalition Government in the mid-seventies? The estimate was given by the then Minister's Department and now the contract price has proved to be £30 million. There must be some reason for that vast difference with regard to the advice given to the then Minister.
I am quite happy to say that it is always difficult to estimate costs at a preliminary stage, but when we came into office and took this matter in hands in an efficient way we got the necessary tenders and quotations. The matter is commencing in an extremely efficient way.
Could the Minister of State tell the House the truth? Did he not go into office and find it was all done and that the figure was there at that time? Perhaps it would be more productive if the Minister of State would look at how it was done and see if it could be applied to other areas of State and at the same time inquire why the huge estimate to which Deputy Barrett has referred was given to his predecessor?
I have no interest in estimates. I am happy to discuss hard facts. I would not like the occasion to pass without saying to Deputy Colley that I accept that the procedure he initially adopted with regard to the tendering position was a proper one. On receiving all the tenders we narrowed it down and An Bord Gáis Éireann, in co-operation with some officials from my Department, sorted out this contract in a very efficient manner.
I would like to suggest to the Minister of State that I saved the taxpayers £100 million on that project.
It is somewhat presumptuous of the Deputy to say that because the Deputy is fully aware that the initial estimate was produced by An Bord Gáis Éireann and it was not £130 million. It was more in the region of £90 million.