asked the Minister for Fisheries and Forestry the estimated number of grey seals around our coasts; their location and number in each case; the number which it is estimated inhabited Inishkea Island before the recent slaughter; and the number which it is estimated were killed or maimed in this incident.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Grey Seals.
14.
(Cavan-Monaghan): The estimated population of grey seals around the Irish coast is 3,000. Their main breeding grounds are the Inishkea Island, County Mayo, and various small islands and caves along the west coast from Lough Swilly to west Cork. In addition, there are small colonies off the Waterford and Wexford coasts and in Dublin Bay. Whilst precise numbers for each individual location are not available, the seal population at the Inishkea Islands was estimated at almost 800. Following the recent unauthorised killing, the dead bodies of 136 animals were found on these islands by officials of my Department.
Would the Minister agree that the method of killing these seals at Inishkea was most cruel and should not recur? What steps is the Minister taking to see that the excessive numbers, if there are excessive numbers, are reduced? What is the Minister doing to see that in future culling is done in a proper manner?
(Cavan-Monaghan): As I have already said in a public statement, I deplore the manner in which the seals that were found dead or maimed at Inishkea were dealt with. I think it was cruel in the extreme. In regard to ensuring that this does not happen again, I know that the Garda Síochána will play their part and I know that the rangers of my Department will play their part. But it is just not possible to give a guarantee that people will not break the law and that they will not behave in a reckless and cruel fashion. With regard to the culling of seals, in future any licences issued by my Department will be issued subject to conditions which will ensure that if the licences are complied with the seals will be dispatched in a humane and painless manner. If they are not it will be an offence and a breach of the law. While breaches of the law such as in the recent cases can be apparent, it is not always easy to get evidence to substantiate a prosecution.
Would the Minister agree that the figure of 3,000 grey seals off our coasts is based on an aerial survey and may be regarded as something plucked out of the air and may not be very accurate? Would he not agree that in his reply to Question No. 9 he stated that while seals were a protected species his Department had no responsibility for culling them? Whose duty is it to protect them? Does the Minister not feel that the ideal way would be that monitoring of the culling should be done by his Department? When the culling is done somebody from the Department should be there and be involved in it. If this were done the Department would be seen to be protecting the seals while at the same time carrying out culling.
(Cavan-Monaghan): The Deputy has accurately stated the situation. The culling of seals is not a matter for my Department alone. The protection of seals is a matter for my Department plus the Garda Síochána. On any occasion that I issued a licence I will do my best to ensure that the terms of the licence are complied with. I would draw the Deputy's attention to the fact that in this case the seals were killed without a licence.
Has anybody ever looked for a licence?
(Cavan-Monaghan): Yes. In each of the years the Deputy was in power licences were issued. Approximately 20 to 30 licences have been issued every year and I take it that Deputy Power, when he was Minister, issued them himself or authorised somebody to issue them.
Would the Minister confirm or deny if an application for authorisation to cull the seals on Inishkea Island was received in the Minister's Department recently?
(Cavan-Monaghan): I am told that two applications for licences were received in my Department but the job had been done when the applications arrived. The licences were received after the seals had been dispatched.
With regard to the Minister's reply to this question and previous questions about seals being a protected species, he said he has the authority to issue licences for culling them. Now that he knows there are approximately 3,000 of them around our coasts what is his view and his Department's view on the acceptable number before he will issue licences?
(Cavan-Monaghan): I have called for a report on the whole position regarding seals, their conservation and their culling. That report has not reached me yet. I assure the Deputy when it does it will get serious consideration.
At the end of the day is the Minister not responsible for ensuring that the Wildlife Act is complied with by all citizens and the question of the management of the seal population is an entirely different matter?
(Cavan-Monaghan): I accept that my Department have a part to play in the enforcement of the Wildlife Act and will continue to play that part. In addition, the Garda Síochána have a part to play and any citizen who sees that the Act is being violated or cruelty is taking place also has a part to play.
Is the Minister satisfied that the penalties are sufficiently severe for culling without a licence? Can he tell the House what the existing penalties are?
(Cavan-Monaghan): As far as I know, it is £50 for a first offence, £100 for a second one and £200 for a third offence. When I saw that I had my doubts about the adequacy of the deterrent. The Deputy will also know that since I enacted the Wildlife Bill in 1976 we have had very considerable inflation.
Would the Minister introduce some legislation to increase the deterrent and, if possible, do it by order rather than by legislation? Can the Minister increase the penalties by order?
(Cavan-Monaghan): My attention was only drawn to the present penalties when I read the information given to me in connection with these questions. I am not sure if the penalties can be increased by order or if there must be legislation. I imagine there must be legislation. I will have the matter looked into.