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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 9 Dec 1981

Vol. 331 No. 8

Adjournment Debate. - Phone Tapping.

Last week I asked a question about phone tapping and the investigation into it. I asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs if he had received a final report from the study group which investigated allegations by the General Secretary of Fine Gael about phone tapping. It had been the subject of numerous Parliamentary Questions in the autumn of 1980. The Minister's reply was:

The report of the detailed examination of the complaint made was received. It was not possible to establish by whom or in what circumstances the overhearing complaint had been carried out.

I submit to the House a letter sent to me when I was Minister of State in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. Deputy O'Keeffe, now a Minister of State, wrote the letter to me. The letter is dated 8 March, 1981. He wrote:

Dear Sir,

For some time past I have been investigating on behalf of the Fine Gael Party the tapping of phone conversations of Peter Prendergast, our General Secretary.

That, I suggest, is not overhearing. I am aware that Mr. Prendergast, now a senior adviser to the Government at an astronomical fee, made a statement to the effect that on Friday, 21 November 1980, he had two detailed important phone conversations with Mr. John Bruton, T.D., then spokesman for Agriculture on this side of the House. Mr. Prendergast said: "I now have reason to believe that both conversations were listened to by a team of people, working together, and that notes were made of specific aspects of the conversations held."

We were then in Government. While serving to the best of my ability in an honoured position in that Government, I deliberately upheld the respectability one must try to maintain for the staff of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. I do not see the same effort forthcoming from the present outfit in that Department today. Suddenly, when they grabbed power, they changed alleged phone tapping by a team working together and notes made of specific aspects to overhearing. That does not show much respect for the staff of the Department of Posts and Telegraphs and the section of the staff working in the exchanges by people like Deputy O'Keeffe and Mr. Prendergast who now assumes the honour of and the cash for an alleged job with the Government.

In November last year the public relations section of the Fine Gael outfit who were over here started on a nice little propaganda job. They started talking about culling. They said they were phone tapped. I will give the names used by Mr. Prendergast. Willie and Frank were alleged to have tapped the telephone. Then we had references by Mr. Prendergast to the fact that in that phone tap — it was not an overhearing; it was deliberate — Bruton was mentioned when he heard them whispering when he put his hand over the phone in this House. He could hear them saying, "Bruton""agriculture", "three types of culling", "this is important", "they have a programme prepared", "the price fixing mechanism", "there is no tone on it now". That means Mr. Prendergast had discovered that Willie and Frank were listening.

Later we discovered two ladies were accompanying Willie and Frank. I could not describe to this House the words described by Mr. Prendergast in his statement which I read and of which I was careful to keep a copy. Some of them were four letter words which I do not use. Suddenly we discovered another fellow called Gerry McMahon. I may seem to be funny in the way I present this but it is not my fault. An intensive Garda investigation was pursued, according to Deputy O'Keeffe.

The Deputy has two minutes.

I will do my best. Deputy O'Keeffe and the Garda could find nothing. Numerous questions were put down here over the winter and then withdrawn. I said they must make a formal complaint to the Department of Posts and Telegraphs before we could investigate it. The documentation arrived in a letter from Deputy O'Keeffe. I wrote to him and told him I had started the investigation as promised. He was given the results of that investigation which were of absolutely no use to him because there was no more PR in it for him.

Then he put down the Dáil question again which he had withdrawn so often during the winter. I answered it and I said if he had any more information I would have it investigated. Not satisfied with that, he pulled out of the bushes again more of this type of stuff and I said I would have it investigated. I meant that and I did it. I now want to know from the Minister what was the result of the second investigation. I asked the most honourable and honest people you could find who work in the Department to go through the investigation again and they did so. I asked for that report. Now the allegation has been changed to "overhearing".

It is important that we should know—it is vital for many reasons and certainly from the security point of view, from the point of view of the users of the telephone service, and most emphatically from the point of view of the staff of the Department who have a very onerous and risky job to do — the result of that investigation. In The Irish Press of last Thursday the heading was “Phone tap of the Fine Gael Headquarters Confirmed”. In The Irish Times the heading was “Prendergast Phone Calls Overheard”. The only person who had it right was that very respectable writer Olivia O'Leary. The new Fine Gael propaganda machine is headed by Mr. Henaghan and another man from RTE at an exorbitant cost when money is so scarce.

The Deputy's time is up.

Will the Minister tell me clearly and emphatically that there was no phone tapping and no alleged whispering, that no team of people worked together and that no notes were made of specific aspects of the conversation between Deputy Bruton and Mr. Prendergast. We did not have to tap the Fine Gael Party because their policies are so ridiculous and so outrageously wrong for us in the west of Ireland. Even if we had to, we would not do it.

The Deputy's time is up.

Deputy Harte should not be sitting over there. It should be Deputy O'Keeffe. He should have the guts to present himself on the front bench and answer the allegations made.

I want to protest. If Deputy Killilea sought information and expected me to give it to him he should have given me the time allotted to me. He has taken two minutes of my time. Unfortunately the Minister has another appointment tonight and cannot be here. Since the foundation of the State the position of the Department has been, is now and will always be, that if an individual makes a complaint about phone tapping or some intrusion into his private affairs on the telephone the Department must accept it and act accordingly. They did that on this occasion.

Let me read to the House what Deputy Killilea said to Deputy O'Keeffe. He said that with further reference to his letter concerning allegations of tapping the telephone conversations of Mr. Prendergast, General Secretary of Fine Gael, he was writing to let him know he had asked his Department to carry out a detailed investigation into the matter. The investigation had already begun and he expected that a senior officer would be in touch with Mr. Prendergast as part of the examination. He said he would write to Deputy O'Keeffe further when the investigation was completed.

If Deputy Killilea is accusing people of making that allegation for political reasons what is he doing tonight? He told us he is in possession of a letter which is departmental property. He has abused the Official Secrets Act and he is not entitled to have that letter. I want to know how many more letters he took out of the Department. I will report this to the Ceann Comhairle's office. I will ask the Attorney General to investigate it. If Deputy Killilea wants to know how much public relations cost while Deputy Reynolds was there I will tell him because it cannot stop——

The Deputy would make a lovely Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

To conclude, the only person who is dissatisfied with the conditions in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs is Deputy Killilea. The Minister for Finance is satisfied that they were investigated properly, Mr. Prendergast is satisfied that they were investigated properly. Everyone is satisfied with the result except Deputy Killilea.

What was the result?

The Dáil adjourned at 9 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 10 December 1981.

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