I should like to refer Deputies to what I said yesterday. I said:
The possibility of having rents determined by using rent tribunals instead of the District Court was examined. In the time available it is simply not possible to set up such a system of arbitration however one might favour it. It would take quite some time before rent tribunals could be fully functioning. This could not realistically be done in time to deal with the volume of cases that will arise immediately this Bill becomes law. I should also mention that quite apart from any administrative difficulties there are also a number of legal and constitutional problems associated with the setting up of rent tribunals that need to be resolved. Once the problem of the controlled sector has been dealt with, I intend, as one of my priorities, to have all aspects of the setting up of rent tribunals looked at and examined in a comprehensive and constructive manner.
Following on that and the discussions which took place here yesterday and the decision taken by the Government to introduce the temporary Bill, this morning on the Order of Business the Taoiseach gave categorical assurances to the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party, Sinn Féin the Workers' Party, the Independents, and members of my own party who have expressed considerable concern about the question of rents tribunals.
We are now talking about rents tribunals as such rather than fair rent tribunals. We are tied by the Supreme Court decision in the Blake-Madigan case and the decision on the 1981 Bill, and we are talking about rent tribunals to deal with just and proper rents rather than fair rent tribunals. This morning the Taoiseach gave firm guarantees that, if this Bill is passed today in its present form, immediately after the Easter recess discussions can take place at Whips level, or at party leaders level, or some other level to be decided, perhaps between spokesmen on the Environment and myself, on the whole question of the introduction of rent tribunals.
The views I expressed in December when this issue was being discussed in this House have not changed. We must find a way to remove the level of fear and intimidation which the courts and the atmosphere of the courts may create for many old people who never had anything to do with the courts. With the time constraints on me, the only way I can go forward at this stage is through the District Courts. It has been suggested that, since the temporary Bill has been passed, there is no great urgency about the permanent legislation and consequently we could introduce a tribunal. I should like to correct that false impression. Already in the courts there is a challenge to the temporary legislation. There is also the possibility that this new temporary Bill may be referred to the Supreme Court. An extension of the temporary Bill increases the risk that it will be found unconstitutional. Were this to happen, the position of the tenants would be very serious indeed, and the options open to the Government would be severely limited. Accordingly, it is imperative that the permanent Bill should become law at the earliest possible date.
I said — and I want to say it again as clearly as I possibly can — that my difficulty about rent tribunals is the time factor involved. I give a firm commitment to the House that, as soon as this legislation is passed, the discussions to which the Taoiseach referred this morning will take place either at party leader level, at Whip level, or between myself and the Environment spokesmen of the various parties. We can sit down and discuss the form of the tribunals. I cannot do it now because of the time constraints. My fear is that I may leave the tenants involved without cover.
I do not want to become political in any way about this. We all share the same deep concern about the problem of protecting the tenants. Deputy Creed raised the point that I made comments about rent tribunals when I was on the other side of the House. I still hold those views. I want to remind Deputy Shatter that, as reported at column 1501 of the Official Report of 9 December, he said it was fair to say that in the amount of time available and in view of the speed with which this Bill would come into force it would not be possible to set up rent tribunals. At that stage his party had been in office for six months. I have been in office for one month. I do not want to be partisan because it is an issue which unites us all. We all share the same feelings about this issue. We want to provide the best protection we can for the tenants while, at the same time, being fair to the landlords and the interests of the landlords. In the time available the District Courts system is the only system that can work.
On the question of the additional district justices and the type of premises in which they will be sitting, I said yesterday that the Government had made a decision about the appointment of a number of extra district justices in the Dublin area, and that they would be sitting in buildings away from the courts buildings, to remove the level of intimidation and try to get as near to the atmosphere of a tribunal as possible. I do not want to be held to the letter on this but, because of the nature of this debate, I should inform the House what the Government have in mind. The idea is that two district justices will be appointed. The premises the Office of Public Works are looking at for us at this stage is the old Dolphin Hotel building. That is in the Dublin area. There will be some other smaller courts in the Dolphin Hotel as well. They will be away from the Four Courts complex.
The reason I specified Dublin had nothing to do with the capital versus the rest of the country. Nobody has any precise knowledge of the exact number of tenants involved. The Private Tenants' Action Group suggest that the figure may be about 30,000. It is an imprecise number. It is generally recognised that for obvious reasons the numbers will be greater in the major cities. I guarantee to the House that a similar situation will prevail in the major centres of population. I do not say it can be done in every District Court area. I guarantee to the House that I will look favourably at Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford and other areas. If I leave out any major city or town I am sorry.