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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 5 May 1982

Vol. 334 No. 2

International Common Fund for Commodities Bill, 1981: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The speech of the Minister of State in regard to this Bill was a grave disappointment to me. The Bill provided the first opportunity for a discussion on development co-operation issues in this House since the present Government took over the reins of office. I hoped that the opportunity would be used for the Government to provide a general statement of policy or general intent in the area of development co-operation. The Coalition Government adopted a very advanced view in this area and I was hoping that we would get from the Government a confirmation that that view would be continued under the present administration. Our Government adopted the UN target of .7 per cent of GNP as an ODA target but, more important, adopted a specific timetable for the attainment of that target by the end of this decade. Furthermore, in the 1982 Estimates we provided for an increase in ODA from £18 million in 1981 to £26.335 million in 1982, putting this directly on target in the achievement of that timetable.

Where do Fianna Fáil stand in this? I believe we are entitled to be suspicious of Fianna Fáil's attitude in regard to development co-operation. Our suspicions are raised by their record in the past and the fact that the provisions were not made in the past by Fianna Fáil Governments to advance in any significant way towards the attainment of the UN target.

I also notice that the Taoiseach has not so far appointed a Minister of State with special responsibility for development co-operation. That is another straw in the wind which heightens my suspicions in this area. I do not in any way cast aspersions on the excellent Minister opposite who is in charge of the Office of Public Works but it seems rather peculiar and unusual that a Minister with that portfolio should be talking in this House about development co-operation issues. I had hoped that we would have a Minister of State responsible for development co-operation to deal with this Bill or alternatively, if it is not the intention of the Taoiseach to appoint such a Minister of State, that the Minister for Foreign Affairs would grace the House with his presence and give an indication of his views. I accept that for technical reasons the Bill was originally presented to the House by the Minister for Finance since there are financial measures involved, but these financial measures relate to moneys which we will be making available towards improving the lot of developing countries. From that point of view this Bill falls into the ambit of development co-operation. I and many others who are interested in this area are particularly disappointed that the opportunity has not been taken to make a broad statement in this field. I now hope and expect that, if not in reply to this debate, then at a very early date we will have a clear statement of general policy from the administration in regard to development co-operation.

I welcome the Bill, with some reservations. In the technical sense the Bill is very acceptable to the Opposition since it was originally introduced when we were in government. My reservations are related to the background to the Bill and the possible limits to its effectiveness and the agreement establishing the Common Fund for Commodities. We must look at the background in assessing how effective this Common Fund will be. There is a very high dependence by developing countries on exports of primary commodities. This has been an accepted fact for many years and it must be considered in the context of any effort to improve the terms of world trade in favour of developing nations. We also know that commodity prices, excluding petroleum, have declined steadily in real terms and by the end of 1980 had reached the lowest level for 30 years. This may not seem to be of great importance but when one considers it in tandem with the high dependence of developing countries on the export of primary commodities, one will appreciate the devastating effect on their economies of the low level of commodity prices now as compared with 30 years ago. Taking into account all the problems from which they suffer, such as inflation, this is a very important factor. Furthermore, primary commodities have a declining share of world trade. Excluding fuels, the share of primary production in world trade has fallen from 38 per cent to 19 per cent over the past two decades. This reflects the declining position of developing countries in the context of world trade.

They have, of course, very many problems. The real difficulty is that over 90 per cent of primary commodities are exported in raw form. There are very considerable difficulties for them in regard to processing and marketing of primary commodities and the whole system disfavours developing countries. Many of them have attempted to have an added value content in their primary commodities but their efforts to process domestically have been met by marketing and industrial structures which have hindered their entering the international markets. There are a whole range of other difficulties, including a widening range of protectionist measures on the part of developed countries and limited access to finance. The financial institutions are controlled by the developed world and there is no great incentive, particularly where there is competition for funds, for finance to be made available to developing countries as opposed to what would be regarded as safe, secure concerns in the developed western world.

They also suffer from the problem of non co-operation in regard to the transfer of technology, the withholding of trade information and a whole host of other restrictive practices. The result is that producing countries in the developing world tend to receive only a very small fraction of the final consumer price for commodities. In many cases the margins at wholesale and retail level are far greater than the price received by the producer. These difficulties are compounded by other factors. There is limited control by developing countries over the export sales of their primary commodities. They encounter difficulty in gaining entry to distribution channels beyond their own borders. In many cases the transnational corporations predominate in production, marketing and distribution, providing substantial scope for transfer pricing. The developing countries have unequal access to marketing information, while there is privileged access to transnationals at every stage of the marketing process.

There are exchanges throughout the world dealing with primary commodities but where is the participation of developing countries in these exchanges? The exchanges have been set up and are run and controlled by the developed world and with their lack of participation the developing countries are again at a loss.

There is another factor which involves transportation. Shipping and transportation facilities are not controlled by the developing world—in fact they are almost totally controlled by the developed world—and in that situation large potential earnings for the shipment of their primary commodities are foregone. Even worse, developing countries have little flexibility in timing shipments to use the markets to the best advantage. Additionally, both tariff and non-tariff protection in many developed countries reach very high levels and this constitutes a major restraint in increasing export earnings in developing countries in respect of primary commodities.

It is important to have a look at the whole picture of trade so far as developing countries are concerned in case we might think that merely establishing a common fund for commodities is going to provide the solution to all the problems. We have to fit this Bill and the international body that is being set up at this stage in regard to commodities into the whole picture to get any real assessment of the benefit which this commodity fund will provide and to get any picture of what impact it will have in providing a solution to the trade problems of the Third World.

In considering the Bill and the agreement we are ratifying now, it is important to have regard to the steps along the line on which this agreement developed. The base line is probably the UNCTAD-IV Conference in Nairobi in 1976. As is usual in international conferences, there was fine language about the problems and vague general commitments in regard to finding a solution. If one considers the proceedings at Nairobi and the resolution adopted there, one will find that all the countries there were convinced of the need for an overall approach and an integrated programme for commodities. They agreed on a programme of global action to improve market structures in international trade and commodities of interest to developing countries. Generally the objectives laid down at that conference were such that if they had been fully achieved something very significant would have been done.

It is worth recalling some of the principal objectives. I refer to Volume 1 of the report of the UNCTAD-IV Conference in Nairobi in 1976. The first objective on which all countries were agreed was that it was necessary to do the following:

1. To achieve stable conditions in commodity trade, including avoidance of excessive price fluctuations, at a level which would:

(a) be remunerative and just to producers and equitable to consumers;

(b) take account of world inflation and changes in the world economic and monetary situations;

(c) promote equilibrium between supply and demand within expanding world commodity trade.

That was the first and principal objection but in addition to that there was a further list which concerned the improvement and sustaining of the real income of individual developing countries, the improvement of market access and reliability of supply, the improvement of market structures in the field of raw materials and commodities, the harmonisation of stocking policies, the improvement and enlargement of compensatory financing facilities for the stabilisation of export earnings of developing countries and so on. It is relevant for anyone interested in this area to read what was agreed at that international conference and to see how far we have gone in the context of this Bill and the International Common Fund for Commodities towards achieving those objectives.

I spoke about reservations but the main point I would stress is that there is a danger that we might think we have achieved a lot when what we have achieved is very little indeed. The agreement establishing the Common Fund for Commodities was adopted in June 1980. I accept that it will go a small way—but only a small way—towards overcoming the problems and meeting the objectives of UNCTAD-IV and it has to be seen in that limited context.

When figures are floated around one gets the impression of enormous funds being available, of tremendous goodwill on the part of the western world, of the emptying of pockets to meet the problems. A very sizeable figure of US $750 million has been mentioned and at first glance that appears a very substantial figure. However, we should examine the figures closely. Very often in this area figures are quoted that are never fully realised and, perhaps even worse, much of the money does not bring any direct benefit to the Third World.

Let us look at the figure of US $750 million. A sum of $400 million is for the first account but of that only $150 million is being contributed by governments in cash. Already that reduces the direct cash contribution very substantially. There is to be a further $150 million available in case of need but, again, in the past we have seen where funds were established, where calls were made but were not met. The balance of $100 million is to be in callable capital for use for fund managers as security for raising loans on the open market. Therefore, we should not get the impression that there will be a body provided with $400 million by the developed world for the first account.

The same applies in regard to the second account. Of the $350 million we find there will be $70 million from the minimum contribution together with voluntary contributions. I wonder about these contributions. The point I am making is that we should not be carried away by a figure of $750 million, thinking that money is on the table and available. It is not. It is as simple as that. It may be available in certain circumstances but the past record of many of these multilateral agencies would not provide any certainty that all the money would be available now or at any time.

When looking up these figures I came across an old hobby horse of mine concerning the contributions made by the countries known as Group D. It cannot be stated often enough that while we try to arouse support and sympathy for the developing world in this country, we have at all times to put it in perspective, and in particular in the perspective of what is coming from the eastern block countries. According to Keesings Archives, 19 October 1979, I noticed that as usual the major contribution of 68 per cent comes from Group B, the developed countries, 10 per cent from the Group of 77 and 17 per cent from Group D the eastern bloc countries. Again I question the amount of money being made available by the Communist world for any multilateral fund to help the developing world. We hear their avowals of fraternal support and sympathy but when it comes to producing hard cash it has to be said they are always in the background. This cannot be forgotten and they should always be reminded that the level of their contribution does not in any way equate their rhetoric to their support in the Third World.

The best way we have of making that point is by showing that we are doing our bit, that we are doing our best. In that situation we would have a moral position from which we could exert pressure not alone on other countries of the western world but on the eastern bloc. This is a point worth noting. We should continue to press in every way we can in the times ahead because these countries in the Communist world will have to be made stand up to their international obligations in a way they have never done before. It is up to us to continue to exert pressure to ensure they do so and the best pressure we can exert is the moral pressure of being above reproach in that regard.

There is an aspect to this common fund which causes me some concern. Another of my hobby horses is the bureaucracy of multilateral aid organisations. Here we have a common fund to be managed through a governing council and an executive board. We have a new major multilateral organisation. Each member state will appoint one governor to the council. This means we will have an enormous top-heavy council, meeting God knows how often, but presumably not having an executive function. This is a big international body and one is entitled to wonder at the cost and expense of the management and control of such a body. The council will elect 28 executive directors to sit on the board and will appoint a managing director. In addition a consultative committee will be appointed to advise on projects suitable for financial aid from second account. I cannot say if that is the best structure, but over the years of negotiation, since Nairobi 1976, this was one of the factors in regard to the power of control in the situation. Ultimately, from the point of view of structures and voting rights, normally negotiation results in the achievement of a delicate balance between the Group of 77, the western world and the eastern bloc.

As a small country with an interest in developing co-operation we should be aware not only of the dangers of these big international organisations, of another layer of international bureaucracy, but of the amounts of money we are supposed to be providing, hopefully, to give direct benefit to the Third World but which is wasted on international bureaucracy. I worry that a fair amount of the funds which will be provided for this common fund will be wasted on administration.

The last FAO report — one that shocked me — stated that over 60 per cent of the funds were spent on administration. Such a figure does not call in question the merits of attaining the objectives of an organisation like FAO, but it calls in question the will of the member bodies to reduce this waste and to get rid of a large amount of those layers of bureaucracy so that the funds being contributed will go towards directly benefitting the Third World. This will have to be borne in mind by us in the years ahead. So far our subscriptions to international bodies have been so small that we have not had any right to question the structures. Now with a developing policy in this area, and hopefully with greater funding in the years ahead, this is an aspect which will have to be looked at very carefully.

We talk about our problems in finding savings in our own structures — there is the problem which exercises the mind of the Minister and his colleagues in his Department — but we must have the same approach in regard to these international organisations and, as a small country, we must continue to press that point. We must put an emphasis on the cost-effectiveness of the multilateral organisations generally. To some degree we have a weapon in our own hands. If we are not satisfied with the cost-effectiveness of these multinational organisations we can ensure that the small amount we contribute is either not contributed or not increased. I know there are mandatory contributions which have to be made but, in the area of voluntary contributions to these multilateral bodies, we have the weapon that the small amount of money we contribute is under our own control.

Secondly, we have a developing bilateral aid programme ourselves which is far more cost-effective than much of the work of multilateral agencies. We can tend to provide increases in the bilateral areas rather that the multilateral area. These are all policy options which will be available to the Government in the years ahead. These are matters which must be considered and on which policies must be agreed very quickly as a matter of priority.

From the Opposition benches we welcome this Bill. It will go a small way towards providing help for the Third World by making funds available for the provision of butter stocks and so on. In joining in the setting up of this organisation, let us not believe that we have in any way solved the trade and economic problems of the Third World. We should see it in the context of being a small move. Now that we have joined in this small move, we should commit ourselves to joining with others in providing bilaterally and multilaterally in the years ahead better steps towards a solution of the problems of the developing world.

I welcome the opportunity to speak briefly on this Bill. It is appropriate that we should discuss it because perhaps we are not too far away from becoming a Third World country ourselves. It might be in our interest to know the advantages to be gained from this fund, the International Common Fund for Commodities.

I am interested in the definition of a Third World country. I should like the Minister to tell us the countries which fit into that category and the countries which benefit from aid such as that which is being provided in this Bill. Sometimes I am mystified as to where exactly this aid goes. I should like to see a list spelling that out clearly. There is a great deal of indifference in this country because of the lack of knowledge of where exactly the money goes. If the public knew the destiny of that money they would be far more willing to contribute a sizeable sum of money which we could afford.

Each year we aim to contribute something like .7 per cent of our gross national product. That is the aim. I do not know if we have ever succeeded in achieving that goal. I am particularly interested to know what countries throughout the world meet that target. I suspect it is largely confined to members of the western bloc. I would be interested to see a table indicating the amount voted by every country in the world to funds such as this. I am quite sure the United States, West Germany, France and the other major countries in the western bloc contribute the stipulated amount, .7 per cent of their GNP. Do the eastern bloc countries do likewise? Do Russia, East Germany, Czechoslovakia and Hungary, who have a reasonably high standard of living, keep their end up? Do they contribute to funds such as this?

It would be extremely unfair to expect a small country such as ours to contribute one million American dollars, which is the amount mentioned in this Bill, together with a further 250,000 dollars to such a fund if countries with vastly greater resources are not pulling their weight. Probably we could afford to pay more, but there will be a begrudging attitude if it is found that countries which are much better off materially than we are, are not contributing anything at all, or very little.

One of the objectives in this integrated programme as stated by the Minister is to stabilise the price of commodities at a level which will help to maintain adequate production and at the same time be consistent with the long-term progress of developing countries. I can see a great deal of sense in the stabilisation of prices of commodities. It means that the poorer countries will get a fair price for their produce at all times.

We have often heard of exploitation by the larger powers of weaker nations and underpayment for crops in particular. Quite often the United States is blamed in this regard, and particularly central and southern America. In essence the Bill is praiseworthy and must be supported. I see some dangers which I should like the Minister to consider and which may be inherent in such stabilisation. We should not be prepared to pay prices which are above the going rate.

Recently there was a meeting of the OPEC countries and, following many weeks of discussion and quite a bit of disagreement, the organisation in question, which contains some of the Third World countries, strangely enough, came up with a price of 31 dollars per barrel of oil. This price is quite a reduction on what has been the going rate in recent years. It drew loud protests, in particular from Nigeria, which I believe — and I am open to correction on this — is a third world country and which had been receiving something in the region of $35½ per barrel of oil. The budget for Nigeria was based on a continuation of that price or, if anything, an increase. When the OPEC countries agreed to this reduction, because of the fall in demand for oil occasioned by a glut on the oil market, there were loud protestations from countries such as Nigeria which had based its economy and economic projections on a much higher price. They blamed the countries in the western world for deliberately depressing the price and, consequently, in turn blamed their economic ills on the western world. That is not the correct way to approach the situation. There must be competition, there must be free trade and prices must fluctuate according to the demand of the markets. Stabilisation of the prices of commodities can be beneficial. However, it can be used in the reverse sense by making us pay artificially high prices for some necessary and very expensive commodities. Of all of those commodities oil is the most essential and most costly in our economy today.

I should not like to see the use of the poor mouth by certain countries being abused or utilised in such a way as to militate against our economic policies and forcing us to pay artifically high prices for commodities for which we can ill afford to pay extra money at any time.

When replying perhaps the Minister would endeavour to specify clearly the third countries involved and which can benefit from the provisions of this Bill. Perhaps he might also furnish us with a list of the commodities coming under the provisions of this fund. I presume they are comprised of agricultural produce we expect from third world countries, such as rubber, coffee, rice, hard timber products, ground nuts and a whole host of other such products. I would hope that the commodities would be confined to that range of agricultural produce and also minerals which may be found in large quantities. I might point out that some of these countries experience difficulties due not solely to lack of stable prices but rather to their lack of organisational ability. I am surprised that funds expended to help the third world are not based more on funding organisational methods and schemes, because a lot of those countries are unable to manage their affairs in a manner beneficial to them. It is quite obvious to any of us who have been to such countries that that is their greatest problem, they are unable to manage their affairs and need the expertise available in developed countries. I often wonder should we be providing manpower and experts rather than actual finance. I have misgivings, such as those expressed by Deputy O'Keeffe, in that so much of this money does not reach the source of the problem, that much of it is used for administrative purposes, on pure bureaucracy and, quite often, in straight-forward corruption. Deputy O'Keeffe mentioned a figure of 60 per cent, an astounding figure, for administrative purposes. As recently as yesterday I saw a report from the EEC maintaining that two-thirds of the money allocated for agricultural development in Ireland is used on administrative expenses. That is absolutely disgraceful. That type of expenditure cannot be justified. In this country, whether it be aid from the EEC or aid to the Third World, we must scrutinise the manner in which that money is distributed to ensure that administrative costs are kept at a minimum and that the bulk of the money reaches its proper destination.

I must pay tribute to Deputy O'Keeffe and to people like Dr. Eamonn Casey, Bishop of Galway, for the manner in which they highlight the problems obtaining in the Third World. We would be totally unaware of the problems — we are not sufficiently aware but we would hardly be aware of them at all — were it not for such people. We owe them a deep debt of gratitude. I would ask the Minister to bear in mind that we have the manpower and expertise so badly needed to utilise these funds, help those countries, and that any aid programme should be based more on what we have to offer in that area rather than actual finance so terribly scarce in this country at present.

I welcome the Bill, hope its objectives will be fulfilled and that its provisions will operate for the good of the people it is designed to help in Third World countries.

The general tenor of the Bill is very much to be welcomed in its basic intent and objective which is cited as the stabilisation of commodity prices. But there are a number of factors about the Bill I find somewhat disturbing and which would warrant considerable clarification on the part of the Minister.

First and foremost is the question of what could be the ultimate liabilities of this country under the provisions of this Bill and agreement. I see a reference to an initial contribution limitation of £1 million. But it would seem that the matter need not end there because there is provision in the agreement under which this country would be obliged to furnish guarantees to the fund. I see no reference to any ultimate maximum figure for which this country could be made liable on foot of such guarantees. I find that a source of some concern. Conceivably the liabilities we could incur could be substantial because of the very broadness of the possible scope of this fund.

The documentation refers to commodities and I see no limitation on the nature of the commodities that would or could be dealt in by the fund. The range of commodities is vast and I would think that the fund would be hard put to it to make an impact across the board on the various types of commodities available. The question then arises as to in whose interest these funds would be applied. Gold, oil, silver and diamonds are all commodities. Some of these raw materials are produced by the largest, most powerful and wealthy nations in the world. For example, gold is a commodity with numerous uses not only in jewellery but in industry and the same applies to diamonds. The primary producers of those commodities, to take just two, are South Africa and the Soviet Union. Could it be that the fund would intervene in the market of commodities of that nature?

The producers of oil are also among the wealthiest nations in the world, fortunate to be blessed with a commodity they can pump out of the ground and sell, thus building up huge reserves of capital at the expense of other less fortunate countries. Of particular concern to me is the indication given that this fund will intervene in the market when prices of commodities are falling. That could be a very hazardous and costly operation. The price of gold and other commodities in the last few years has fallen disastrously. One could visualise a situation where the fund to which this country will be a contributor might have to contribute further through its guarantees and intervene in a commodity market and purchase vast quantities, no doubt, of that commodity and see the price go lower and lower and lower. We might find perhaps that we were called upon to issue guarantees for appreciable sums for which our taxpayers would be held accountable. That requires some clarification and comment.

I have heard it said that the commodity market is the most speculative of all forms of investment and that the movements in it can go for very long periods in one direction either up or down. Is this going to be a speculation in the commodity market in which we shall participate? There is an air of doubt and uncertainty running through the Bill and Explanatory Memorandum. It is not quite clear if this is intended as something to help the Third World. Is that its objective? Or is it something that developed countries are gearing up and applying for their own industrial purposes, to procure their raw materials in a certain way? Frankly, if the object were to benefit Third World countries and assist in their development, it is a very worthy objective and would have my full support in the context of the particular needs of the individual third countries concerned and also in the context of the needs and abilities of our own country to make such contribution. That is also a very vital factor that must be taken into account in granting assistance to Third World countries. When you decide to assist developing Third World countries by giving them grants or other assistance at least you know what your contribution will be. You decide on something commensurate with your own economic resources and means but under this system you do not know what your contribution will be in the end. We do not know how much we will be called upon to pay on foot of the guarantees provided for in the agreement and which presumably we will be obliged to give if called upon to do so.

There is also the question which was touched on by Deputy Deasy of the amount of the contribution that actually gets through in a worthwhile way to those Third World countries. When one makes a direct contribution, presumably virtually all of it would get there but the operation of this fund, it seems, will involve an enormous bureaucracy which will make substantial inroads into the fund. It has been said and perhaps with some truth that our own bureaucracy is top heavy but at least that bureaucracy provides employment for our own people whereas the enormous bureaucracy—as I visualise it — that would be involved in the operation of this fund would be located elsewhere and provide employment in other countries. That is a major factor. I have seen the matter of the same common front for commodities discussed in the UK and the question of the location of the fund was regarded there as a key factor. In the course of the debate in the British Parliament it was stated that the British Government welcomed the creation of the fund and it invited the organisation to site its headquarters in London. The Dutch and Philippine Governments have issued similar invitations but no decision has yet been taken. I do not see anything to indicate that our Government have issued an invitation to site the fund or any of its institutions or offshoots in this country. Perhaps the Minister might consider that aspect of the matter to see if that could be done.

It is interesting to look down the list of countries that are participating and to find that both the US and the Soviet Union are participants in this scheme. It is refreshing to see that there are some matters in which countries of such diverse interests both east and west of the Iron Curtain can participate but it must be said that some of the countries that are indicated in the schedule as participants in the scheme are notorious for their failure to meet their obligations to international funds, to the United Nations. I think some of them failed to meet their proper obligations as members of the United Nations for the peacekeeping force in the Lebanon. Can we be sure these countries will meet their obligations to this fund and that their reaction in this case will be different having regard to their failure to meet obligations to other international forces?

I am concerned that we would have a commitment here to these international commodity organisations. I do not know how many of them there would be. We are not told what commodities we would cover. Our control would be miniscule, virtually non-existent in relation to international commodity organisations because of the relatively small participation we would have. Yet it seems that those international commodity organisations, remote bodies, staffed by people with whom we would have little connection and over whom we would have little control because of the low percentage of our voting strength would be in a position to involve us in commitments which the Oireachtas would have to meet, as provided in section 3 (4), which states that we would have to vote moneys which are paid under guarantees. We could perhaps be involved in substantial sums of money and we would have very little control over them.

The broad thrust of the concept seems good. I do not know how this thing would work out in practice or if it would be of any benefit to us. I do not know the extent of the commodities concerned, the stability of the prices of those commodities, the extent to which we would need those raw materials. One can visualise that the more highly industrialised countries would have a greater need and a greater interest in them. Perhaps the purpose of setting up this fund is that it will be of immeasurable benefit to them and perhaps little benefit to us. Those are some of the fears I have after studying those papers. Perhaps the Minister may be able to ease my mind and that of the House when he replies.

, Clare): I would like to thank the Deputies for their contributions and their obvious interest in what is involved here. I will try to deal with the points made by the three Deputies who made contributions. The Deputies raised the question of what commodities are involved. The fund can actually help any commodity provided there is an international body to promote the production and trade of that commodity. The main commodities so organised at present are cocoa, coffee, rubber, tin and sugar. There is a long list which could be incorporated at any time if there was an international body to promote the production and trade of them. It is so varied that it contains everything such as cereals, bananas, coffee, tea, vegetable oils, meat, tropical wood, cotton, hard fibres, phosphates, iron ore and many more commodities which could be incorporated under this agreement if the commodity was organised by an international body for the production and trade of that commodity.

Deputy Taylor spoke about the question of guarantees and the danger that could be involved for us. Each guarantee we would be called on to give would have to come before the two Houses of the Oireachtas and the Government. The Houses of the Oireachtas can exercise their discretion in agreeing to give any guarantee. The amount of our guarantee would be related to our trade share, which is unlikely to be a significant proportion of world trade. We are not running any unnecessary risk in that respect.

Deputy Taylor also referred to the danger of speculation. This fund is concerned with positive intervention rather than speculation. Producers and consumers joining ICOs associated with the fund will agree on an equitable floor and ceiling price and market intervention would range between these. This is not a case of uncontrolled speculation. The fund is designed to promote stability in the market, as I said in my opening speech. It is true that the amounts available from the common fund are not great. The developing countries hoped for much more, but following long negotiations and long discussions this was the most which countries involved in those discussions were prepared to put into the agreement. It is possibly the usual problem, as Deputy O'Keeffe said, of very good intentions until you are asked to put up the money to prove your good intentions or your great interest in those intentions.

It is also true that the developing countries are faced with shortage of capital and barriers to trading. Many international bodies, notably UNCTAD, are endeavouring to help production in the Third World and to liberalise trade. This will be one of the central issues at the UNCTAD conference which will convene in June 1983. We must hope that the developed countries will practice what they preach and take more positive steps to enable the Third World to expand its trade.

Deputy O'Keeffe and Deputy Deasy mentioned the top-heavy organisations that could envolve from setting this up. This is very true from experience, but unfortunately that is how it is because most international organisations become the major bureaucracies. It should be realised that the Third World delegations are in the forefront when it comes to creating larger bureaucracies. This has been the experience with regard to them. They are possibly picking this up from the developed countries. This has happened with previous international organisations.

Deputy Deasy asked who benefits. The principal commodities are cocoa, coffee, rubber, tin and others may emerge. The beneficiaries at the moment would seem to be the African and Asian countries, a few countries in South America and the Carribean area and also, as has been pointed out, the second account is designed to develop production and research in the weaker countries.

Deputy Taylor spoke about the siting of the headquarters. The UK have made a bid for London and they may have a good chance because London has a developed money market and some international commodity organisations already have a London headquarters. The feeling is that the headquarters will be at London, Amsterdam or Geneva. We can try for an Irish headquarters but our chances may not be great.

The Third World countries and the official development assistance was mentioned during the course of the debate. There was reference also to official development assistance for Third World countries. This is not really a matter for discussion under this Bill but something that could be discussed when the Foreign Affairs Estimate is before the House. While this agreement happens to be the business of the Department of Finance, the question of official development assistance is a matter for the Department of Foreign Affairs.

Regarding the assistance we have been giving to these Third World countries, there have been gradual increases since 1974, when the figure was £2,500,000. In 1981 it was £17.8 million. That was a sizeable improvement and this year we have adopted the sum provided for in the previous Government's Estimate for 1982 and that is £26.335 million. There has been a considerable improvement in the amounts each year under successive Governments. I thank the Deputies for their contributions and for their co-operation.

Perhaps the Minister would clarify a point regarding the question of guarantees. He mentioned that section 3 provides that any guarantee would have to be laid before each House of the Oireachtas but, as against that, Article 14 of the agreement, or the Treaty itself, provides at section B for an obligation on members to provide guaranteed capital directly to the fund. It seems, therefore, that the State would have a direct liability in that regard. Perhaps the Minister could confirm whether that is the case.

(Clare): The money referred to by the Deputy is part of our initial contribution and there is a definite ceiling on that. So far as guarantees are concerned, any guarantee that we would be contemplating would have to come before the Government first and then before both Houses of the Oireachtas for ratification. There is no question of people giving guarantees ad lib.

But does the agreement not obligate us in that respect? Have we not a Treaty obligation to give the guarantee under Article 14?

(Clare): Yes, but with the approval of both Houses of the Oireachtas.

That is stated in the Bill but not in the agreement. It does not provide in the agreement that these guarantees are given subject to the approval of the legislature of the countries concerned. It provides that the governments shall provide guaranteed capital directly to the fund.

(Clare): Any decision we make in the context of any international agreement is subject to the approval of both Houses of the Oireachtas.

Question put and agreed to.
Agreed to take remaining Stages today.
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