asked the Minister for Justice the reason the craft workshop in Limerick Prison has not been made available to prisoners in view of the fact that the prison officers there have no objection.
14.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Limerick Prison Facilities.
13.
asked the Minister for Justice the reasons the hours of association of prisoners in Limerick Prison have not been extended during the breakfast period in view of the fact that the prison officers there are prepared to co-operate in this matter.
15.
asked the Minister for Justice if he will subsidise the evening meal of prison officers who are prepared to co-operate in providing extended hours of association for prisoners in Limerick Prison.
(Limerick East): I propose to take Questions Nos. 13, 14 and 15 together.
The Deputy does not appear to have been fully informed by prison officers, or whoever else may have been in communication with him in this matter. The attitude of the representatives of the prison staff is not as clear-cut as the questions suggest. In any case, I do not consider that it is appropriate to attempt to give a complete and accurate picture here of the various proposals that have been made by staff groups and my departmental representatives in relation to this matter. The essential points are that I am anxious to honour the commitments given by my predecessor in relation to the same hours of association being introduced in Limerick Prison as apply in Portlaoise Prison, including the keeping of the cells unlocked during breakfast, and in relation to craft shop facilities and that I am endeavouring to get the staff to co-operate in this on the basis that the taxpayer will not be unduly imposed upon.
I accept that it is possible that the prison officers whom I met recently may have misled me. However, I need a little more information from the Minister to establish whether or not that is the case. I have asked specific questions. The craft shop, for example, is now available and prison officers have said that they are prepared to allow it to be used by the prisoners. Is the Minister in a position to ensure that that is done? He has said that he is prepared to honour the commitments given by his predecessor in this regard. What is the problem in relation to the craft shop?
(Limerick East): The provision of craft shop facilities was one of the undertakings given by the then Minister on 7 September 1982. A new craft shop has been built in Limerick and has been ready for use since 21 January last. Staff have declined to man the craft shop, however, without extra posts being sanctioned. The governor of Limerick Prison is satisfied that adequate posts are sanctioned already for Limerick to allow for the manning of the craft shop and, indeed, manning of a study room which the staff also say that they will not man without additional posts. That is the difficulty.
Could the Minister clarify what is meant by additional posts? Is it additional prison officers over and above the number in the prison, or additional hours of overtime or what?
(Limerick East): It is additional post manning.
Additional officers in the prison?
(Limerick East): It could be borne by additional officers, or by overtime. It is additional men on duty at a given point in time.
Is the Minister not prepared to consider ——
A final supplementary, Deputy, please.
With respect, the Minister has taken three questions as one and I want to ask supplementaries on the others. I want to clarify the Minister's reply, because I would not like to be misled by the prison officers or it to be publicly stated that that was the case. If this is not the case, is the Minister not prepared to consider providing overtime for prison officers in Limerick Prison, to resolve this aspect of a very serious situation?
(Limerick East): My information is that there is already adequate staff to man the craft shop as presently deployed. The question of overtime, as the Deputy is aware, is the key issue in the extension of recreation from 8 to 8.30 in so far as the prison officers are concerned, even though the Minister is quite willing to sanction payment of overtime from 8 to 8.30, they consider this an inadequate inducement to work the hours.
There are two aspects to extending the hours of association. One relates to the morning, 8 to 8.30 a.m., and the other to the evening time. I understand from the prison officers that they are prepared to implement the morning periods without any change at all. Is this the information available to the Minister?
(Limerick East): The staff were asked on a number of occasions since the prisoners began seeking longer unlocked hours if they would be willing to leave cell doors open during breakfast time in advance of agreement being reached on longer hours of unlocking and compensation for same. On each occasion staff replied that they were not. At a meeting on 3 February 1983 they said they agreed that the existing manning levels were adequate to allow of cell doors being left open during breakfast time but the staff would not be prepared to continue the arrangement in the event of cuts in manning levels. Therefore no decision has been taken at present to direct the staff to leave cell doors open during breakfast time.
A Cheann Comhairle, again——
This is about the seventh supplementary, Deputy.
I think it is about two per question, a Cheann Comhairle, so it is reasonable——
They were fairly long.
Does the Minister see any way out of the existing impasse? What I endeavoured to do in my questions was to relate to specific areas where he could improve conditions in Limerick on the basis of commitments already given, the specific instance there being the situation about which I am still confused, following the Minister's reply. Surely it is open to the Minister to allow the hours of association — or the unlocked hours as they are called — to be implemented immediately in the morning time without any difficulties with the prison officers or anybody else?
(Limerick East): The difficulty about the hours of unlock at breakfast time is that in the Estimates for prison officers' overtime published by the previous administration the allocation was £4.5 million. In the Estimates in the budget that figure was increased by £2 million to £6.5 million but the outturn last year was over £7 million. It will not be possible to keep within the increased allocation of £6.5 million this year without a reduction in manning levels in some of the prisons. The prison officers in Limerick are looking for a guarantee that there will be no reduction in manning levels if they agree to unlock at breakfast time. I would hope that matters could be brought to a satisfactory conclusion. I feel in honour bound by the commitments given by my predecessors to the prisoners who were on hunger strike last September. But the settlement cannot be made in a piecemeal fashion. The various outstanding matters will have to be met in one package settlement rather than in piecemeal fashion.
May I ask a final supplementary question?
If it is the final.
Are discussions between the Minister's Department and the prison officers going on at present? There is a very serious situation in the prison at present. Are there discussions actually taking place at present?
(Limerick East): Discussions are not taking place in the sense that there are no discussions I am aware of going on at present but contact between officials of my Department and representatives of the prison officers, both in Limerick and at national level, are continuing in the sense that there is no question of their having broken down or anything like that.