asked the Minister for Industry and Energy if he considers that there is an urgent necessity for a wide range of standards to be established for goods sold in this country in order to protect Irish goods and jobs from unfair competition from sub-standard imported goods; and if so, if he will instruct the Institute for Industrial Research and Standards to deploy more personnel in that particular area.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Irish Standards.
18.
I appreciate fully the importance attaching to the use of Irish standards for the purpose of raising the quality of Irish manufactured products. In recent years the number of Irish standards published has been increasing steadily. In addition, the staff of the standards division at the Institute for Industrial Research and Standards, the body responsible for preparing such standards, have been strengthened and it is intended to redeploy additional staff within the institute to this function in 1983. I would point out, however, that, with few exceptions, these standards are voluntary and it is a matter for consumers to satisfy themselves that products conform to Irish standards.
In the case of substandard imported goods, it is not possible to restrict their sale except where they represent a public health or safety hazard. In such cases I have the power to make mandatory standards by order.
The Minister said that they have been increasing in number. Could he give me the number of standards that apply in Ireland as of now and as of six months ago?
Three hundred and thirteen.
At the moment?
Now.
How many were there six months ago?
Sixty-seven standards were made in 1982, so the Deputy can subtract 67 from 313 and he will get the figure for the beginning of 1983.
Arising out of that information, it is quite clear that the effectiveness of the IIRS has never been used properly in the past. Would the Minister accept that there is great scope within the area of providing standards on, say, building materials, an area in which the State is a very large purchaser? If we had our own standards, as applies in other EEC countries, there would be quite a significant number of jobs in Irish industry as a result of having those standards and being able to ensure, through the State purchasing agencies, that they are applied.
Yes. That is why the IIRS staff have been increased in this area, notwithstanding the very small availability of funds generally.
Do I understand the Minister to say that he can introduce mandatory standards by order?
Yes.
And that the Minister has done so?
Yes, but what I said was——
Very few.
——where there were public health and safety hazards.
Only then?
Yes.
Is the Minister saying that he has absolutely no control whatsoever in relation to the standards of imported goods?
You have the control if you are setting an Irish standard and the consumers would know by looking at the product whether if complied with that standard. If it did not, they would not have to buy it. We are allowed under the free trading obligations only to impose mandatory standards which must be applied, regardless of what the consumer might think, where the goods are a danger to safety. Seven such mandatory standards have been made to date.
Surely the Minister is fully aware by now, after some months in Government, and in his previous term in office as well, of the number of jobs lost in recent years arising from what can only be described as substandard imports competing with Irish-produced goods, thereby putting many Irishmen and women out of employment? Surely he agrees that some action must be taken in this regard?
This very much depends on Irish purchasing managers. The work that is being done in alerting purchasing managers of Irish firms to the availability of good quality Irish products, as a substitute for the imports they are now using, is the key to success in this area. This is something to which I shall be referring in response to the next question from Deputy Leonard.
In the course of the supplementary information the Minister gave he more or less implied that the consumer should be satisfied with the standards. In his last reply just a minute ago he talked about purchasing managers and so on. Surely the Government have a responsibility? From yesterday's unemployment figures we know now that they will be way over 200,000 before the end of this year. Surely there must be some action the Government, and the Minister's Department in particular, could take to alleviate this very serious situation in which many thousands of men and women are losing their jobs?
I think the Deputy will realise that when one is in the EEC one is bound by certain obligations as to free trade. If one introduced some standards for imports which were such as to exclude perfectly good foreign goods but which were not just as good as the equivalent Irish product, one would not be able to sustain that position under the EEC rules. The only area in which one is entitled to introduce that type of mandatory standard is where public health and safety are at risk, as I have already indicated. It is not a question of not wanting to; it is a question of not being able to under our existing Treaty obligations.
All other countries of the EEC are.
We cannot remain on this question.
Can the Minister say if he is familiar with the activities, movements and various actions of the French Government who still remain within their EEC obligations in relation to the protection of imports into France? Would the Minister not consider that it is now time — because of the serious and escalating situation here — for us to protect jobs, and that he should examine every possible avenue of protecting jobs in Irish industry?
I am aware of that. I am also aware that France does not depend to the same extent as we do on exports to other countries. France is a country which is virtually self-sufficient — even though it is a member of the Community — in many goods. We, of all countries in the Community, depend on exports and the acceptability of our exports in other markets as our lifeline to survival. That has been the basis of our entire industrial development strategy over the past 20 years. If we were to introduce protectionism of the type the Deputy may have in mind, that would be reversing that industrial development strategy.
The French can and still remain within the rules but we cannot.
Question No. 19.
It is extremely questionable whether the present French measures are within the EEC law.