asked the Minister for Trade, Commerce and Tourism if he will consider introducing legislation to require building societies to disclose publicly contributions made to political parties; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Building Societies.
8.
There are already provisions in the Building Societies Act, 1976, under which such disclosure could be made mandatory by the Registrar of Building Societies. These provisions are found in sections 62 and 70 of that Act and they empower the Registrar to prescribe the form of the annual accounts and annual return of a building society. The existing forms are at present under review by the Registrar and I understand that the need to regulate the matter referred to in the question will arise for consideration.
I take it from the Minister's reply this is a matter for the Registrar of Friendly Societies. Has the Minister any information with regard to the question asked and has he consulted with his Fine Gael colleagues in Government before replying to the question?
I have consulted with nobody except my Department. As the Deputy will be aware, the Registrar is an independent officer established under the Building Societies Acts and other Acts and he has informed me that this is a matter he will be inquiring into in an overall review he is carrying out.
Would the Minister agree that building societies are in fact making contributions to political parties and this is an abuse of the moneys these societies have?
I would not like to prejudge the review to be undertaken by the Registrar. He is examining the question of the legality of such payments, if they are being made. If they are not legally proper, then perhaps the present law should be changed. It is my personal opinion that all political contributions over a certain figure, irrespective of source, should be disclosed.
9.
asked the Minister for Trade, Commerce and Tourism if he will consider introducing legislation to ensure that the full list of the membership of all building societies will be made available to all interested parties at present in the same manner as the full list of the membership of all limited companies; if he is aware that at present there is no way of ascertaining whether those voting at annual general meetings of building societies are members; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Sections 10 and 73 of the Building Societies Act, 1976, would appear to contain adequate safeguards as regards the procedures to be adopted at meetings and communications between members. Any person who feels that his rights have been infringed would be entitled to seek the protection of the courts. Accordingly, I would not consider the introduction of any amending legislation to be necessary.
Would the Minister agree the question is not confined to the holding of an annual general meeting? I asked, and the Minister has not specified, why the same regulations should not apply to building societies as apply to limited companies in regard to the disclosure of the full list of membership, and is the Minister aware that under sections 16 and 119 of the Companies Act, 1963, this applies to limited companies and public companies but does not apply to building societies and would the Minister agree it should apply?
I do not think a comparison between companies and building societies is fair. Building societies are engaged in investment by a very large number of people and it would be unfair to apply a regulation to such societies which did not equally apply to other financial institutions engaged in the same type of operation. The practicability of disclosing membership would be fairly considerable. As I understand it, there are 583,000 members ranging from 200,000 in the largest to the smallest, 190 approximately. Full public disclosure would obviously be an intolerable burden on the operation of these societies. In addition, as I said, it would not be fair to compare them with companies. If regulations were to be introduced they would have to be across the board. In other words, they would have to apply to all institutions engaged in related types of activity.
I must ask a further question because I do not think that the Minister has applied himself to the original question.
Has the Deputy a question?
Would the Minister accept that the question refers to the information being available to all interested parties as distinct from being made available publicly? In the case of a building society, whether with a membership of 50 or of 50,000, would the Minister agree that the information should be made available to all those members but not necessarily made available publicly? In referring to other institutions in a similar line of business, is the Minister referring to the banks and to the question of special provisions being made available for them? I have asked simply about building societies.
We cannot have a debate on the matter.
Would the Minister not agree that what is justified in the case of building societies should be justified also in respect of banks and other institutions engaged in such business?
Under section 10 (1) of the Building Societies Act, 1976, the rules of every building society must specify the procedure to be observed at meetings. Therefore, each society are responsible for the proper conduct of their meetings. The Registrar of Building Societies is not aware of any significant abuse in the area of voting at general meetings of building societies. Should such abuse occur in the future, the Minister for the Environment has power, within the terms of section 10(3) of the Act, to prescribe rules in respect of any of the matters listed in subsection (1) of that section. These include the procedures to be observed at meetings as well as other matters of procedure concerning meetings such as notices, voting rights, proxies and the taking of polls. Regarding the question of communicating information to members, section 73 of the Act is relevant also to the extent that it established a new procedure whereby a member of a building society may communicate through the secretary of the society with the other members of the society on a subject relating to the affairs of the society.