asked the Minister for Health if, in view of his written reply to Parliamentary Question No. 255 of 16 February 1983 in which he stated that all health boards have arrangements for providing shelter and maintenance for homeless persons, he is aware that in the North Eastern Health Board area the only official arrangement is referral to the sometimes overcrowded Dundalk Simon Community; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Shelter for Homeless Persons.
1.
Shelter and maintenance for homeless persons in the North Eastern Health Board area is provided at present in two locations. The Simon Community provides accommodation in Dundalk for about 25 persons with assistance from the health board.
In St. Mary's Hospital, Castleblayney, the health board provides seven places for homeless men. This provision is regarded as sufficient for that area.
I am at present considering a proposal from the health board to assist the St. Vincent de Paul Society to provide a hostel for homeless people in Cavan.
In general the health board is doing its best to provide for the homeless in its area within the restricted resources available to it.
This question relates to other questions which were replied to yesterday.
The Chair would feel more at ease if only one Deputy were standing at a time. Deputy De Rossa.
The funding which is provided to the Simon Community in the Dundalk area is entirely inadequate for the service it is expected to provide. Can the Minister indicate whether it is intended to provide additional funds to the Simon Community in Dundalk in order to meet the responsibilities which the health board is asking them to meet?
The problem in the health board area is undoubtedly more evident in Dundalk than elsewhere. The Simon Community has provided accommodation for about 25 people there and the health board assists Simon in providing, to the greatest extent possible, accommodation. Many places in the Dundalk premises are occupied by semi-permanent regulars which at times results in overcrowding. The health board does its utmost to assist in the area. Likewise in Drogheda a survey carried out about three years ago established that many of the casuals who use the centre are transients en route from Dublin to Northern Ireland and vice versa. There are difficulties then in providing accommodation for homeless persons in both Drogheda and Dundalk.
Can the Minister tell me whether there is an official arrangement whereby the health board refer persons to the Simon Community in Dundalk?
I am not aware of the arrangement. My brief does not extend to that aspect. I can find out for the Deputy.
2.
asked the Minister for Health if, in view of his written reply to Parliamentary Question No. 255 of 16 February 1983 in which he stated that he was not aware of hardship caused to single homeless people through the non-availability of casual facilities in some county homes and geriatric facilities, he has read the report produced by the Simon Community entitled Closing Down the County Homes; if he is aware of the information contained in that report that up to ten men have been sleeping rough in Carlow as a result of the closure of the Sacred Heart Home there; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I have read the Simon Community's paper Closing Down the County Homes and I am familiar with the section on the closure of the Casual Unit at the Sacred Heart Home in Carlow. I am most concerned about this report and the Health Board is taking steps to rectify the unfortunate situation that obtains since the closure of the unit at the Sacred Heart Home. The Health Board is at present having discussions with a local voluntary group knows as the Carlow Christian Care Group with a view to organising a facility for homeless men. The board will be prepared to grant-aid the provision of accommodation and to contribute to the running costs.
I will keep the Deputy informed of developments.
Can the Minister confirm that the report from the Simon Community entitled "Closing Down the County Homes" was in the possession of the Department when the reply was given on 16 February 1983 and would he not agree that there was at least a falling down on the part of the Department in not advising him that hardship was being caused for single homeless people when that report was in their possession?
I would not accept the Deputy's view on this. There is pressure on all areas for accommodation for those who are homeless but in relation to that health board area I pointed out that in Clonmel there are eight places, in Dungarvan ten, in Waterford 40, in the Regina Coeli Hostel, likewise in Waterford, there are 18, in Wexford 24, in Kilkenny eight, in Talbot House in Kilkenny a further three and in Thomastown there are six. It is in the Carlow town area that there has been a particular problem. I am familiar with the report and it undoubtedly pinpoints the casual unit at the Sacred Heart Home in Carlow. At the time of preparing the original reply I was aware of the intense efforts being made by the health board to cope with the situation which largely arose from the Sisters being unable locally to continue to operate that facility.
3.
asked the Minister for Health if the ad hoc committee which is at present examining the division of responsibilities between health boards and local authorities for providing accommodation for homeless persons has met with representatives of any voluntary organisations active in the area; if it plans to do so; when the committee is likely to report; and if its report will be published.
4.
asked the Miniister for Health when he expects to receive the report of the ad hoc committee which was established to clarify the responsibilities as between health boards and local authorities in respect of making provision to care for the needs of homeless people; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 and 4 together.
The ad hoc committee has invited submissions from a number of voluntary organisations involved in the area of homelessness. The committee also indicated that it would be pleased to meet with representatives of these organisations who might wish to give oral evidence. One voluntary organisation so far has indicated that it wishes to make an oral submission and arrangements will be made to meet its representatives.
I expect the ad hoc committee to report within six months. The report will be made available to all statutory and voluntary agencies involved in caring for homeless people and to anybody else who wishes to obtain a copy.
Three months ago the Minister indicated that a report from the ad hoc committee would be available soon. I understood it would be available in a matter of weeks. Now it appears it will be available in six months. Could the Minister indicate what organisation have been contacted by the Department and which ones have agreed to make submissions? Could he also indicate if this report will be made available to Deputies?
The report will certainly be made available to Deputies. The committee met first on 4 February. It was set up by me because the health boards have been finding increasing difficulty in providing accommodation for homeless persons and because neither the health nor the housing legislation provides clear guidelines as to the division of responsibility between local authorities and health boards. The three Departments involved are Health, Social Welfare and the Environment, together with the health boards and local authorities, and submissions have been received from Simon, from the housing centre in Liberty Hall and a submission is also expected from the Society of St. Vincent de Paul. The Simon Community have also expressed an interest in making an oral submission. I expect the report will be received around September. It is an informally established ad hoc committee on homelessness. I will certainly urge them to expedite the work but it will certainly take that time to have a report.
Am I to take it from the Minister's reply that the health boards have a function in housing the homeless?
They quite definitely have. Under the Act they have a specific responsibility but there is a need to coordinate activities in this area between the Department of the Environment, the Department of Social Welfare, the Department of Health and the local authorities and health boards.
I would like the Minister to give a direction to the health boards because there is a great deal of buck-passing between the various bodies in regard to housing the homeless and I believe a direction should be possible at this stage.
Would the Minister agree this is an anomalous situation which should not be allowed to continue indefinitely and will he make every effort to resolve the conflict as to which Department carries the responsibility? This difficulty — I am sure the Minister is aware of this or is he — was identified over 12 months ago. Which authority has responsibility for homeless persons? I am sure the Minister will agree these people are a most deserving section and deserve more attention from his Department and the Department of the Environment than they have seemingly received up to now. I ask the Minister to give an assurance that every effort will be made to resolve the conflict immediately and provide accommodation for the numbers of homeless persons in the State.
I would like to commend the health boards because within their limited resources they are providing accommodation. Last Friday in Tullamore I went to the night centre there and I saw the accommodation provided. It is excellent. A number of health boards are providing accommodation to the tune of about 1,750 places. The problem is a growing one and because it is, the first meeting of this ad hoc departmental committee was held on 4 February last. They have been working on the problem since. Health boards find that the problem of homelessness is becoming increasingly part of their responsibility and because it is they expressed concern to the Department. There will be no delay in bringing forward the recommendations of the committee and no reluctance on my part to publish those recommendations.
Would the Minister not agree that what is required in this area is a national policy to deal with the 3,000 approximately homeless persons who have to be given temporary accommodation of one kind or another? Would he also agree that the money provided by the health boards is totally inadequate? I refer to the Dundalk situation where £5,000 is provided to assist in the provision of accommodation for 25 homeless persons. The ad hoc committee which was set up in February last contacted the Simon Community only last week for a submission and there does not seem to be a proper degree of urgency in dealing with this problem.
These two questions deal with the report of a committee concerning the homeless, and I would ask Deputies not to avail of the opportunity to have a full dress debate on the particular problem.
I did attempt to raise this matter on a number of occasions on the Adjournment and I failed.
The Deputy may have better luck next time.
Would the Minister agree it is a highly undesirable situation where local authorities are not in a position to approve an application from a person who cannot show a permanent address? The type of accommodation to which the Minister referred is merely a shelter and it does not assist these people to create homes. It is a temporary, stop-gap solution to a very difficult human problem.
We must move on now.
I totally share the Deputies' concern and I shall do my utmost to have the report expedited. I shall also do my utmost to have more resources allocated in this area and I hope when the necessary taxation and other measures are brought in here they will have the support of Deputy De Rossa and Deputy Molloy.
Will the Minister accept that under the 1953 Health Act health boards are obliged to provide shelter for homeless people and is he satisfied shelter is being provided?
They are obliged but that Act is very general in its application to health boards as such. It does not specifically deal with homelessness and that is one of the reasons why the committee will review the provisions of the Act.