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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 16 Jun 1983

Vol. 343 No. 8

Estimates, 1983. - Vote 39: Labour.

I move:

That a sum not exceeding £110,245,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1983, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Labour, including certain services administered by that Office, and for payment of certain grants-in-aid.

Before I commence my speech, a Cheann Comhairle, I may say that the document I will be reading from has been abridged somewhat in the past hour or so, because of arrangements made by the Whips to confine this debate, which was to cover 1¾ hours to two hours. The original document which was to be circulated was much larger and dealt in depth with the affairs of the Department of Labour. I am sorry this had to be done because the larger document would have been of much more value to Deputies and to the staff reporting the debate on the Estimate.

The large increase over last year reflects the provision for youth training and employment which in turn reflects the increased yield expected from the youth employment levy in 1983.

Since the bulk of the expenditure under the Vote for my Department is in the areas of training and employment, I propose to deal first with the general employment situation and in that context to outline the activities of my Department and of the agencies grant-aided from the Vote, the purposes of which are to alleviate and improve the situation.

Hopes for an increase in the level of economic activity throughout the international community failed to materialise in 1982, as the recession continued for the third successive year. Output in the European Community was little changed compared with 1981, while in the wider OECD area output actually declined slightly. In Ireland as in other countries the impact of the prolonged downturn translated directly into a significant deterioration in unemployment, attaining levels unprecedented in recent years.

Existing economic forecasts while pointing to a revival in growth led by an upturn in the US economy, have yet to show any substantial improvement in employment. While it is not possible to predict the eventual impact of the upturn in Ireland we can anticipate, however, that the pressure on employment will diminish in the medium term and the rise in unemployment will decelerate provided the right policies are adopted and implemented. While recent unemployment figures may indicate the first tentative signs in this direction, I am under no illusion as to the manifold problems that yet face us as a community before the trend can be halted and reversed.

Measures aimed at improving labour market conditions in times of recession and population growth have been severely restricted by the necessity to implement policies geared towards adjusting public finance and external payment imbalances. Notwithstanding these restrictions the Government have established the appropriate economic structures which are aimed at securing the environment for economic regeneration through proper economic planning and management. These structures are centered on the Cabinet Task Force on Employment which brings a co-ordinated and integrated approach to the problem and also ensures that the competence and expertise available in the State are fully utilised. Within my specific sphere of responsibility the thrust of policy in the manpower area has been the development of complementary strategies for employment and training. These programmes have been expanded rapidly in recent years to meet the twin objectives of maintaining a dynamic labour market and making some reductions in the level of unemployment. The programmes are costly, despite the level of European Social Fund assistance, which following last week's Council will continue to be available, on an increasing scale. I propose therefore, to deal with this area in some detail.

I want to emphasise the particular concern with which this Government view the issue of youth employment. A major initiative in the area of youth employment was taken by the previous Coalition Government through the establishment of the Youth Employment Agency, under the Youth Employment Agency Act, 1981. The agency are charged with bringing about a unified and concerted approach to training, work experience, educational and employment measures designed to tackle the problem of youth unemployment. I believe that the Agency can exert a major influence on the provision of employment and training services for young people and I wish to express my wholehearted commitment and support, and that of the Government, to the agency in their important work.

In general, the agency has looked mainly to the existing authorities such as AnCO, the National Manpower Service and the Department of the Environment to implement programmes, rather than itself assuming an executive role. I see the agency playing a key role in co-ordinating the expansion of existing facilities arising from the additional financial resources available since the introduction of the youth employment levy in April 1982. The agency will also be involved in encouraging the development of new schemes, so that a wide range of facilities will be available to cater for all categories of unemployed young people. This year over 45,000 young people are expected to participate in schemes funded from the proceeds of the youth employment levy. This figure is approximately equivalent to the number of young people leaving second level schools to join the labour force.

The current year will see a rise of approximately 100 per cent over 1981 in the numbers catered for by the programmes designed for unemployed young people under the auspices of the Department of Labour and their agencies and the Departments of the Environment, Education and Health. These include general and apprentice training and the community youth training programme, administered by AnCO; training for the hotel, catering and tourism industries, administered by CERT; the work experience programme and the scheme for youth employment, administered by the Department of Labour; the environmental improvements scheme, administered by the Department of the Environment; the pre-employment and secretarial courses run by the Vocational Education Committees and the Department of Education; and a programme for the work experience placements in the health services, which is being planned by the Department of Health in consultation with the Youth Employment Agency. The State investment in all these levy-funded activities is of the order of £61.3 million. In addition, the Youth Employment Agency has a further sum of £15 million to expend both on expansion of existing schemes and on the launching of new activities.

In 1983, the main thrust of the agency's activities is, first of all, to support the continued expansion of State-aided training and work experience programmes for young people. Secondly, the agency will direct a major initiative at the longerterm registered unemployed in the 18 to 24 age group. Of the total of the 57,000 registered unemployed in this age group it is estimated that about 20,000 have been unemployed for six months or more. Priority access for this group is needed to the range of training, work experience and employment programmes provided for young people generally. Consequently, over the next year the agency's objective will be to move towards a situation where:

Programmes providing State funded employment on community and environmental facilities will recruit exclusively from among the longer term unemployed.

Up to 50 per cent of existing training places for young people will progressively be devoted to those out of work for long periods.

Sufficient funding is available for a significant expansion of places in training and temporary employment programmes to cater for this group.

The activities of the agency this year will also focus on the replacement of the current temporary employment activities with a new integrated approach; improved access to training for disadvantaged teenagers through the extension of the network of community training; support for the local and youth initiatives in job creation; and the promotion of priority developments in the education system relating to the transition from school to work.

The agency have been given a specific responsibility for encouraging the creation of economically sustainable jobs through community, youth and voluntary organisations. A major initiative planned in the enterprise field is the launching of the Community Youth Enterprise Programme. Community enterprise workers will be employed by community groups with potentially viable projects, to aid in bringing such projects to fruition. A start will be made on this programme in the immediate future.

The agency are supporting three pilot projects in Cork, Finglas/Dublin and Waterford providing back-up resources for young people starting their own enterprises and from this experience the agency intend providing a basic model for resource centres with defined agency supports which would be available for general application in 1984. The agency are also considering a scheme for loans to potential young entrepreneurs.

The Youth Employment Agency organised last week a seminar of interested State, education, local authority, youth and voluntary organisations, employer and trade union representatives to discuss proposals on the question of a flexible framework within which community based activity can be given a role in the provision of manpower and employment schemes for young people. The proposals seek to bring about an integrated approach to the needs of young people from the point at which they are about to leave the school system right through providing assessment, guidance, basic training, work experience, job placement and job creation. The outcome of the seminar is being considered.

The Joint Programme for Government, 1982, contained an undertaking that the Cabinet Task Force on Employment would consult with the Youth Employment Agency with a view to removing any obstacles that may exist to their effective operation and would ensure that the resources allocated to the agency are used fully and effectively with particular emphasis on actual job creation. These consultations are currently taking place. I am confident that they will give an added impetus to the work of the agency.

In today's economic climate the provision of adequate training for our work force is vital. It is a fact that the company with a well trained work force and the individual with skills are both able to weather the storm of economic recession and to take advantage of the upturn in economic activity when it comes along.

In recognition of this the funds being made available to AnCO are being significantly increased. AnCO will receive an Exchequer grant for non-capital of £9.5 million this year in addition to approximately £33 million from the Youth Employment Levy proceeds. These funds will attract matching grants from the European Social Fund, bringing AnCO's total budget for operational expenditure in 1983 to approximately £87 million. This compares with £60 million in 1982.

AnCO plan to train over 34,000 people during the current year — an increase of 25 per cent on 1982. Over 24,000 of those trained will be persons aged under 25 years, many of whom will be seeking their first jobs. In this area AnCO will be working closely with the Youth Employment Agency. Despite the attention being focused on young people AnCO are concerned that the training needs of older unemployed people will not be lost sight of and plan to take special initiatives in 1983 to attract this category into training. In addition to the operational resources available to AnCO a further grant of £6.1 million is being allocated towards capital expenditure mainly on training centres. When these capital projects are complete AnCO will have a total in-centre capacity of 7,000 training places. New centres at Baldoyle, Loughlinstown and Letterkenny will be completed in 1983 and a centre at Limerick will come on stream in 1984. No further commitments for new centres will be entered into until AnCO complete a review of present and future needs.

External training is becoming increasingly important in the AnCO training programme. Under this scheme AnCO carry out or contract out training in industry, educational establishments and similar locations. In 1983, AnCO plan a throughput of 12,800 — or over a third of total throughput — in external training locations.

A very valuable training programme for young people is the Community Youth Training Programme. This programme is important in that it provides training for people in small communities around the country, and the training leaves behind useful facilities in the shape of improvements to local amenities which might not, otherwise, have been undertaken, for example the renovation or construction of a community hall. It is planned to expand the programme in 1983 to provide training for 5,000 young people. This compares with 3,400 in 1982.

AnCO are also involved in organising training courses for disadvantaged young people to enable them to meet standards in basic skills to help them to secure training places at an established training centre or alternatively low skill employment. AnCO plan to train almost 1,800 people under this programme during 1983.

AnCO recognise the special needs of women in the labour force and are fully conscious of the role that training can play. It is AnCO's policy to raise the skill level of women in the work force by training more women in a wide range of skills and for more highly skilled work. This policy is also geared to the special problems of women returning to work after a break in employment and to the difficulties involved for women in their dual role at work and in the home. In recent years special efforts have been made to encourage and facilitate women who wish to train or re-train. Consequently there has been an increase in the number and proportion of females participating in AnCO courses from 10 per cent of the total in 1975 to 33 per cent of a much larger total in 1982.

The Government's commitment to ensure an adequately trained work force and to raise overall standards in the hotel and catering sector is reflected in the provision being made for CERT. I have allocated £280,000 from the Exchequer to CERT for 1983 and when the grant of £1.426 million from the Youth Employment Levy proceeds and the allocations from the European Social Fund are taken into account over £3.3 million will be available to CERT this year. CERT expects to maintain its education, training and recruitment services at around the same level it operated in 1982 when it trained 1,600 young persons in formal long-term craft and management training courses. Some 4,232 hotel, catering and tourism workers were also trained by CERT on short courses and a further 219 unemployed persons participated in special eight week bar and catering courses at CERT's Roebuck Training Centre.

A non-capital grant of £475,000 for management training is provided in this year's Estimates for the IMI. This will be supplemented by grants from the European Social Fund which will amount to approximately £440,000. Management training is also indirectly State funded by AnCO subvention under the technical assistance scheme towards the cost of attendance at management courses. The Irish Management Institute provides a comprehensive programme of management development. The success of the small business development programme in improving the efficiency and profitability of small companies is particularly heartening. The Government in supporting IMI activities are anxious to see to it that business itself contributes its fair share to training its personnel, be it at management or operative level. State aid, therefore, should be focussed on special training needs not catered for by business.

The main function of the National Manpower Service is to help job seekers find employment and employers to find suitable workers. At present priority is being given to helping unemployed persons and first-time job seekers to find employment. Additional placement officers have been recruited and I am satisfied that the National Manpower Service is now well geared to meet their commitments.

I should say that the task facing the NMS in the eighties is difficult and formidable in view of the fact that a high level of unemployment and a relatively low level of job vacancies are likely to continue for at least some years. Closer liaison between NMS and the Department of Social Welfare is being developed through giving priority to those on the live register in submissions for vacancies notified to the NMS. This will also help to discourage unwarranted recourse to unemployment benefit or assistance.

I appeal to all employers to use the NMS more by notifying vacancies and to help reduce unemployment by selecting unemployed persons as far as possible to fill vacancies. In 1982 the service found jobs for a significantly greater number of people than in 1981. In all 30,800 persons were placed in employment, an increase of over 12 per cent on the previous year. There has, however, been a decline in notified vacancies in the early months of 1983.

I propose now to deal with some of the other matters involving new legislation which are in hand or in contemplation in the Department.

An EEC Directive concerning the protection of employees in insolvency situations will come into operation on 22 October next. Progress has been made in recent years to give legislative protection to workers who lose their jobs because of the insolvency of their employers. Payments owing to employees in respect of wages, holiday pay and other entitlements now rank as priority claims in insolvency situations. In some instances, however, firms may close down leaving insufficient assets to cover these priority claims. In such circumstances, under present legislation the employees may not always receive the arrears of pay to which they are entitled. I intend to rectify the situation by introducing legislation before the end of the year which will ensure that workers' interests in the matter of arrears of wages, holiday money and so on will be protected.

Our legislation governing working hours needs updating. I will be introducing a Bill in the near future which will fix the normal working week at 40 hours. This Bill will also impose restrictions on the working of excessive overtime. The systematic working of overtime is something of an anomaly in a situation where so many of our people are unemployed. I would hope that the enactment of this legislation will encourage managements to review their work practices, to improve them where possible and to examine any possibilities there may be for expanding employment in their undertakings.

A review of the Unfair Dismissals Act, 1977, is under way. I hope to be in a position to introduce a Bill in the next Dáil session which will provide for the amendments which are necessary in the light of the operation of the 1977 Act. Most of these amendments will be of a technical and legal nature, and as a result of extensive consultations which have been held with interested parties, I am confident that the amending legislation will substantially improve what is inherently good legislation.

Turning to the protective aspect of the general conditions under which workers are employed, I am having a review carried out of the Holiday (Employees) Act, 1973, and of the Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Act, 1973. On completion of these reviews I will introduce any legislative or administrative changes which may be found necessary for their more effective operation, having regard to the experience of their operation over the decade which has elapsed since they were enacted. In this connection it is my intention to consult with the social partners and consider their views.

Also a review of the employment equality legislation — that is, the Anti-Discrimination (Pay) Act, 1974, and the Employment Equality Act, 1977 — has been initiated and I expect that a substantial amending Bill will be necessary. These Acts have operated successfully to reduce the general incidence of direct discrimination on the basis of sex or marital status, but there is no room for complacency. Further action is needed, particularly to attack the more subtle forms of indirect discrimination. I hope that the new Bill will be a further step in the direction of full equality of opportunity for all.

The Protection of Employment Act, which is administered by my Department, obliges employers contemplating redundancies to notify the Minister for Labour and worker representatives in writing at least one month in advance of the proposed effective date. The purpose of the Act is to allow for discussions to take place between all interests to establish what possibilities, if any, exist to save the jobs at risk. I have reviewed the operation of the Act since it was first implemented in 1977 and I intend as a result to strengthen its provisions in two areas. The required one month notification of impending redundancies has been shown to be too short to allow for an exhaustive examination of possibilities for salvaging jobs at risk. I intend to extend the required notification period. I am also concerned that the penalties for non-compliance with the provisions of the Act should constitute a real deterrent and I therefore intend to put proposals before the House which will increase their level, and broaden their ambit, to achieve this result.

I attended a meeting of the Council of EEC Social Affairs Ministers on 3 June last in Luxembourg. The Social Affairs Council was of crucial importance for Ireland because they considered the question of review of the rules of the European Social Fund. As Deputies will know, the Social Fund has become of immense significance for this country. Our returns from the fund have increased each year from £4.1 million in grant approvals in 1973 to an expected £130 million in the current year. The fund has enabled us to develop our vocational training facilities at a rate which would have been quite impossible if we had been obliged to rely on our own resources.

The rules of the Social Fund which have been in operation since 1978 were drawn up before the onset of the current recession when the levels of unemployment in most Community member states were relatively low. At that time there was a general willingness to allow the fund's resources to be directed to regions like Ireland which had special problems of structural unemployment and a lack of capacity to deal with those problems. In the review of the fund which has just been completed a marked change of opinion was evident. A number of other Community member states which had previously not shown a particular interest in securing fund benefits for themselves were now endeavouring to change the rules so that they would obtain more assistance to deal with their increased unemployment problems. In the process they displayed a lesser concern for the special circumstances of the weaker areas of the Community.

The end result was that at last week's Council there was a strong move to end the special status of the so-called regions of absolute priority, that is, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Greenland, Greece, the Mezzogiorno of Italy and the French overseas territories. Ireland came under the most severe pressure to accept proposals which would have undermined the special position of those absolute priority regions, if not immediately, certainly within the next couple of years. Basically, these envisaged the preparation of a sort of "league table" calculated on a statistical basis which would be used as the sole method for allocation of fund money. This "league table" would have regard to unemployment levels in different Community regions but would have taken inadequate account of the relative economic capacities of the individual member states. In addition, it would have placed a very strong emphasis on the regions of industrial decline at the expense of those parts of the Community, such as Ireland, which have suffered from long-term structural unemployment.

Those proposals I strongly resisted, with little support from other member states. As a result of my resolute stance, the proposals which would have been totally contrary to Irish interests could not be approved. The idea of a "league table" will still be pursued, but for regions other than the absolute priority regions. While I have referred to my defence of Irish interests, I was, in fact, fighting the battle for all the most deprived regions of the Community.

A solution eventually emerged, but only after several hours of hard debate. The most important single element of that solution was that it was agreed that with effect from 1984 a specific percentage of 40 per cent of the fund, higher than the average percentage of recent years, would be reserved for the regions of absolute priority of the Community. This represents a substantial improvement on the existing fund rules so far as the absolute priority regions are concerned.

Now, however, for the first time a percentage is legally guaranteed for the number of regions which are given absolute priority status. The preference enjoyed up to now by the absolute priority regions when it came to allocation of the fund's resources was given only through the guidelines for the administration of the fund which are liable to change from year to year. I have now secured for the first time a legal commitment in favour of those regions which, because it will be enshrined in a Community decision, cannot be changed except by unanimous vote of the member states. I can assure the House that as long as I am Minister for Labour no weakening on that guarantee will be entertained.

The result of the new arrangement will be to assure the various Irish bodies which have been benefiting so substantially from the fund that they will continue to receive that essential support for a number of years ahead. These beneficiaries cover a wide range of bodies including the Departments of Labour, Education and the Environment, AnCO, CERT, the IDA, SFADCo, Údarás na Gaeltachta, the National Rehabilitation Board, the Youth Employment Agency, health boards throughout the country and numerous voluntary bodies engaged in vocational rehabilitation of the handicapped. These bodies will now be able to plan their future activities in the secure knowledge that social fund assistance will continue to be available for them. Indeed, with the prospects of overall increases in the fund budget over the next few years, the amount of fund assistance which will be available for Ireland can be increased significantly. A major element of the social fund package which was eventually agreed, subject to concertion with the European Parliament, was the decision to commit 75 per cent of the fund's budget to programmes designed to help young people. Ireland, in common with other member states, was anxious to subscribe to this firm commitment to youth, while we were concerned at the same time to ensure that sufficient funds remained to help other disadvantaged categories such as the long-term unemployed and the handicapped. In the end, the balance adopted seems just about right from our point of view.

Now that the review of the social fund has been completed, I can say that what I succeeded in achieving in Luxembourg should be a source of substantial additional benefit to Ireland in the years ahead. I am sure that Deputies on all sides of the House will welcome the result of the review.

The last important item on which I propose to speak is industrial relations and industrial disputes. My policy as Minister for Labour in regard to industrial disputes has consistently been one of no direct intervention. It was my judgment, when I first took office as Minister, that direct intervention was totally counterproductive in terms of fostering a generally healthy industrial relations climate in the longterm. There was, at that time, plenty of evidence around to indicate that my judgment in this respect was correct, and its appropriateness has been underlined in more recent times as the skeletons of previous ill-judged interventions by some of those who are now on the Opposition benches have rattled ominously. I have adhered to this policy despite, even in recent times, pressure from Opposition spokesmen to interfere directly in dispute situations.

The pattern of strike activity over the past 20 years has, regrettably, shown a consistent upward trend. A particular feature of this period has been the disproportionate effect which the "one major strike" phenomenon has had on our strike record.

Statistics recently published show that the number of days lost due to strike action in the first quarter of 1983 was down on the corresponding figure for 1982. A further analysis of these figures indicated that, in the main, strikes this year were of shorter duration than has previously been the case.

It is to be hoped that where industrial action is resorted to during the remainder of this year, the trend established during the first quarter will be continued and the long-duration major strike will not become a feature of 1983 statistics. There is one sure method by which recurrence of this phenomenon may be avoided and one on which I intend to elaborate fully. Employers and unions must operate fully the range of machinery which has been built up at local level and is available at national level to achieve a resolution of their differences before resorting to industrial action in the first place.

No one can be under any illusion that in the present economic difficulties industrial relations harmony is not of paramount importance. Industrial harmony in the workplace is important for the protection of existing employment, the generation of new employment opportunities within firms, the maintenance and improvement of productivity levels. Our efforts to ensure that competitiveness of our products and to regain a competitive edge for our goods on foreign markets underline the importance of good industrial practices at local level.

I am not suggesting that the maintenance of industrial peace is easy. What is absolutely necessary in the present economic climate is, however, the exercise of a sensitive and responsible approach by both management and workers to a dispute situation, an approach which will take all the relevant factors into account including the possible effect on other industry and other jobs and which may, before strike action becomes inevitable, lead to a reappraisal of what avenues for settlement may yet be pursued.

In regard to the range of machinery which is provided at national level to aid the resolution of disputes, it is extremely important to ensure that this dispute-settling machinery is effective and responsive both to the particular circumstances of each individual case and the national interest. Were this not to happen the implications for the economy and the maintenance of jobs would obviously be very serious indeed and in the long-term would undermine the potential of the machinery to discharge the role for which it was initially established. I am aware that there is room for improvement.

The Labour Court and its Industrial Relations Service, the Rights Commissioner Service and the Employment Appeals Tribunal incorporate between them a considerable degree of expertise. These institutions have an impressive record in relation to their capacity to resolve disputes which often appear to be intractable. It is of the gravest importance that this record and the credibility of the institutions should be maintained. It is my intention to keep the operation and functions of these publicly-funded institutions under continuous review. Measures to increase their efficiency and effectiveness will be implemented where necessary.

In the broader industrial relations scene, I have already indicated my intention of holding early discussions with both sides of industry to examine the scope which exists for improvement.

Invitations have issued to the Federated Union of Employers and to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and the invitations include a suggested agenda which is open to change to cover other items which either side wishes to include in the discussions. I have adopted this approach to ensure the maximum level of flexibility. This is important to facilitate genuine exchanges and the search for a consensus. I am under no illusion as to the difficulty in arriving at a consensus on some of the more sensitive issues. I am hopeful that, with the commitment of the social partners, it will be possible to agree on worthwhile changes in our existing arrangements. The time for a fundamental review of Irish industrial relations is long overdue.

The crucial importance of constructive action in the field of industrial relations must again be emphasised, especially in the context of our present economic problems. The benefits of minimising industrial strike are not as immediately quantifiable as increases in costs but are, nonetheless, just as real and important for the future growth of our economy.

I hope I have covered the main issues of interest to Deputies. If they want additional information I will try to meet them when replying. I recommend the Estimate to the House and take the opportunity to assure Deputies of my co-operation at all times.

Like the Minister I and my party would have wished for more time to debate this important Estimate. I was proud to be a member of a Government which, for the first time last year, introduced Estimates before the year to which they applied. Events prevented them from being discussed in the House. The general election took place at the time the Estimates were prepared. However, it was our intention that Estimates such as this one would have been discussed in the last Dáil session of 1982. This is an area where Dáil reform is badly needed. I look forward to the Government introducing the 1984 Estimates in this year's autumn session. We would have proceeded with that innovation last year had events not overtaken us.

I am happy to respond to the Minister's speech. I look forward to seeing action by the Department. The Minister has no other responsibility such as I had for the Public Service when I was Minister and as he had when he was Minister in 1981. A Minister of State has also been appointed to the Department. On previous occasions we had one Minister with responsibility for two Departments. Now we have two Ministers with responsibility for one Department. I am disappointed that during the months they have been there very little has emerged. I realise that because of the time constraints the Minister had to shorten his speech.

We cannot gloss over this Estimate without referring to employment. I accept that the responsibility of the Minister for Labour in the general employment sphere is rather limited. While he has responsibility for youth employment it would be impossible to refer to that without referring to the overall employment scene. We are all aware that the position has deteriorated and is deteriorating. The trends are disturbing. There was a slight improvement last month but the seasonal adjustment showed a deterioration. The National Manpower Service in the Department of Labour is probably the area most closely related to the employment situation. Has the Minister appointed a national director to the National Manpower Service yet? If not, why not? What, if any, consideration has the Minister given to the development of the service? I did not take any final decisions but I did give consideration to the introduction of the aireacht concept into the National Manpower Service as a unit under the aegis of that Department. There were many arguments in favour of such a move. Obviously there were arguments against it. Has the Minister any views on this?

This is an area where the Department are under severe pressure no matter where their offices are located because of the unemployment situation and the number of job applications. I urge the Minister to go back to the Government and explore the possibility of further recruitment.

The university examinations, for the most part, are over as are the regional colleges examinations. The intermediate certificate and leaving certificate examinations are in progress and the matriculation examination has yet to take place. One could say we are moving towards the end of the examinations. Where do we go from here as regards employment, additional training and so on? What progress has been made? The Minister was very sketchy in his reference to the Youth Employment Agency. Criticisms have been made of the agency from time to time and there are those who say it was born in the 1981 Labour manifesto without a lot of thought having been given to it.

There was public controversy soon after the board was established by the Minister in his previous term of office when some members publicly criticised him because of his appointment of a chief executive. He was appointed the day before I took office in February 1982. It can be said to my credit that I supported his appointment. It was a good appointment and he has a most difficult task before him. The Minister and the Government must accept some of the responsibility for the difficulty of that task because of the unclear way the agency was launched. We all recognise that particular attention must be paid to youth, to training, the development of work experience and if at all possible to employment prospects. We must realise the importance of employment prospects in the productive area. It is imperative that training and at least temporary employment be provided for young people to accommodate them in the transitional period from school to work life. I can claim credit for having redirected the educational system towards industry. The establishment of the Manpower Consultative Committee in 1978 was a major step forward and brought industry and education closer together. That needs to be continued.

We all know that in some areas of modern technology despite high unemployment figures it can still be difficult to recruit suitably educated and qualified people. We must be ever conscious of the need for closer co-operation between education and industry.

I do not wish to be critical in a destructive way of any schemes. I worry when I read regular sniping at these in magazines. Last Monday week on the front page of one of the daily newspapers the National Manpower Service and AnCO were described as protangonists competing for similar schemes and money. The Minister has an obligation to state clearly that this is not the case. I accept that it is not the case. There are major difficulties which were not spelled out clearly at the beginning. In the Labour manifesto before the 1981 election, provision was made for a 1 per cent levy to be specifically used for the training and employment of young people. Both the Government of which the Minister was a Member in 1981 and the Government of which I was a Member in 1982 believed that the bulk of that levy should be used for the existing services such as AnCO, CERT, the environmental schemes programme and the educational schemes programme and that the revenue should be given to the Youth Employment Agency to enable them to initiate schemes of their own. It is extremely important that they initiate such schemes. I am the first to admit that they have difficulty in identifying major new ways forward.

I should be interested in hearing from the Minister as to the present position of the COMTEK development. He tells us that something is happening in that regard but my understanding is that this development was to have been launched a month or so ago but that this has not happened. I should like him to tell us the reason for the delay and also what exactly is this scheme. How similar is it, for instance, to a scheme being organised presently by AnCO in West Cork where a useful new scheme is being developed? That is the link scheme which was announced in 1982 and which has come to fruition in recent months. The difference may well be that the West Cork scheme is not confined to under 25s but incorporates under 25s and adults in about a 50-50 proportion. That is probably more geared to the needs of that area.

As there is a danger of over-lapping in regard to the new scheme, I should like the Minister to spell out clearly what is involved. I am anxious to be supportive of any efforts on the part of the Youth Employment Agency. I displayed that support while in Government although I inherited a vexed situation, a situation in which I refused to be pushed by people who had gone public prior to my appointment and who wanted me to pursue the Minister, which I refused to do in the interest of youth employment. Therefore, I cannot be accused of being critical or unsupportive in this area. In terms of training and retraining in all areas. AnCO have done tremendous work.

There is a very high calibre of people in that Stage agency. Their commitment is to be found regularly throughout the network of centres and also through the external training programme.

I welcome the improvement in the numbers being trained through the scheme. I would hope that there would be a guarantee of work experience and of training for every young person leaving the education system at any level.

When I assumed office first, the chairman at the time was a very good friend of all of us here, the late Mr. Michael Mullen. At that time CERT were experiencing difficulties but as Minister I restored a good deal of confidence to that body. The results were very satisfactory and CERT embarked on new training programmes for the hotel and catering industry. I am glad that the success rate of CERT is continuing. Since those early years of my ministry in 1977 and 1978, they have made rapid progress. I trust that any support the Minister may give them will not be hindered in any way by any thinking there may be in other Government Departments.

The Irish Management Institute continue to enjoy the support of the Department. The institute provide a very important function in training for management, especially in the very important area of industrial relations.

The Minister has referred to the Social Fund. Alongside his contribution of today I have some paragraphs from last year's contributions from the then Opposition in this regard and some of these make interesting reading. Perhaps the rapid change from one side of the House to the other conditions the minds of people to the fact that one should be very careful about switches of policy. Last year while speaking from this side of the House the Minister was claiming some credit for the scene he had created for me in relation to the Social Fund. I accept that he was involved in that area but I am sure he will admit that I played my part in creating the climate for him to have the final run down the straight. We both played our parts in achieving what appears to be a reasonably good solution to a situation that might have been serious. We have benefited well from the Social Fund.

We must keep continually under review new legislation and the question of conditions of employment. I am glad to hear the Minister say he is reviewing certain Acts but I am sure he will agree that the review was well advanced before he assumed office. I should like some information regarding legislation that I had expected to be before the House. Now that the Minister has a Minister of State to help him I would have thought that after six months in Government we would have had quite a number of pieces of legislation from the Department. I was surprised during an Order of Business question to the Taoiseach a week or two ago concerning an hours-of-work Bill when he said that some aspects of the Bill had to be discussed further. My understanding was that that Bill would have been before us in this session. I urge the Minister to have it circulated as soon as possible so that we may take it early in the next session. We will be supporting the broad principles of the Bill but obviously I will have to reserve my position on the details until we have seen the Bill.

Again I would impress on the Minister the urgency in relation to the Unfair Dismissals Act. With all the advisers who have been appointed to help the Minister, both he and his junior Minister should be able to devote a good deal of time to these urgent matters. I did not have the luxury of such a back-up. I refer especially to the taint-of-contract problem which as the Minister knows is causing some concern as a result of decisions taken over a period by the Employment Appeals Tribunal. I presume the Minister will tell me that we may expect the relevant legislation to be before us, if not during the remainder of this session, some time in the next session.

I am worried about temporary people, for example, nurses, being laid off. Temporary in their case could mean that they would be employed for a couple of years. There might be a danger of people deliberately trying to thwart the control of the Act by continuing jobs on a temporary basis. I would be glad if the Minister would have a look at that.

What progress has been made in the dangerous substances area? The Minister referred to the great work that had been done by my predecessor in 1977. However, when I came into office I found legislation covered in dust which had not been implemented because of difficulties to do with the Offences Against The State Act. I was able to resurrect and introduce most of it and make some regulations but a lot remains to be done particularly in relation to petrol retail outlets. I had a meeting last September to discuss all this and we had arranged to meet again late in October but by that time events had overtaken us. I would ask the Minister to say what progress has been made since.

The National Manpower Service have been extremely helpful. The employment incentive schemes have been good. We extended them from just manufacturing and agricultural industries to include building and services generally. The building workers demonstrated on the streets yesterday and it has to be accepted that the building industry is in crisis. At the end of year there will be about 50 per cent of building workers unemployed. I know the Minister will say he has not enough money but on the Finance Bill we indicated that there would be money over and above what the Minister budgeted for. A small proportion of that money should be used to restore that scheme to cover the building industry. The Minister will say that we did not provide money in the Estimates but I can quote from the Official Report of 3 June 1982 what the Minister said at column 1010. The Minister, then Deputy, was speaking about the increased moneys being made available in our budget and he said:

While I welcome the improvements made to this scheme and in particular the increased level of premia payable to persons over 25 years and over 26 weeks without a job, I have some reservations which I hope the Minister will allay when replying. First, I would ask where the additional £4 million is coming from. Secondly, expenditure on this scheme in 1981 amounted to only about £1.21 million.

The then Deputy was asking why we wanted all that money. Now a few months later the Minister will say that we did not provide enough money even though we provided more than what we are talking about here. Deputy Kavanagh went on

I am, nevertheless, interested to know if the scheme will be extended to the building industry which could use this level of incentive to encourage the employment of thousands of people presently unemployed in the industry.

The building industry suffered from unemployment but it was not in crisis at that time.

In regard to industrial relations, the Minister stated his own philosophy. It is very difficult to lay down absolute procedures to handle industrial relations. What is suitable for today is not necessarily suitable for next week. Disputes arise which cause problems for existing machinery. I, as Minister, always stood behind the institutions of the State. I sympathise with the Minister because there are extreme difficulties on the horizon because of a Government who negotiate publicly and announce their decisions publicly rather than making moves in the most discrete and correct forums in which they should be made. I support all disputes being processed through the normal machinery, as far as possible but the Minister knows that there are many times when a Minister will discretely urge parties so as to get them to the table or to move from a strong position. A Minister may not claim credit for it and when I write my memoirs I will claim some credit. Despite what this Minister may say publicly, he knows that he will have to intervene in certain circumstances, so let us not throw bricks across the House at anybody and talk about rattling over previous decisions. I intervened in a certain dispute which was subsequently settled satisfactorily and certain organisations criticised me for being in breach of the national wage agreement. I proved that I was not in breach of it but this is the kind of controversy a Minister for Labour will always face in such situations.

We had a reasonably peaceful climate but the last six months have been tempestuous and most difficult. It was not all caused by industrial relations but the trouble was contributed to by decisions of the Minister for Finance in his budget. I took the Minister's advice last year and did all the things he asked me to do in the House. I am sorry that the Minister has allowed industrial relations to deteriorate. The Minister referred to what had been a comparatively peaceful period and he said at column 1017 on 3 June 1982:

The Minister has had a period of industrial peace in which to formulate policy for wage agreements over his period of office.

The Minister was claiming credit for the peace I was having then. Deputy Kavanagh said that:

Before the last election and during that election he promised to renegotiate the national wage agreement.

I interrupted to say that I had not so promised but I did negotiate agreements in the public service area which the Minister and his colleagues should be able to use beneficially. Strikes and threats of strikes have been numerous.

Debate adjourned.
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