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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 28 Jun 1983

Vol. 344 No. 3

Private Members' Business. - Tuam Sugar Factory: Motion.

(Limerick West): I move:

That Dáil Éireann calls on the Government to reject the application of Comhlucht Siúicre Éireann Teo., for authority to close Tuam Sugar Factory and further calls on the Government to give categoric assurance that Tuam Sugar Factory will remain an integral and permanent part of the company's operations.

It gives me pleasure to move this motion. I want to assert the complete confidence of our party in the sugar beet industry. I pledge our party's full support for its continuing nationwide operation. It is disheartening, to say the least, for all who believe in our capacity to create and innovate, to see question marks once more being raised over an operation which has served Ireland well over the past 50 years. I refer to the Irish Sugar Company, to their factory at Tuam and to the renewed speculation about it. I am also aware of the rumours and the scares about the future of the Thurles factory. These rumours seem to be deliberately promoted, and they reflect the conservative policies now being pursued in regard to Irish industry generally and in particular in regard to industry based on agriculture.

Fianna Fáil cannot permit the advocates of a two factory sugar beet industry to go unchallenged. Neither will we permit them to succeed. Fianna Fáil reject that concept totally. To countenance such would be tantamount to the winding down of an industry which has had such a dramatic impact on agriculture over five decades. In the same period it had a developmental influence on industry generally and in financial terms it was profitable as well. It is a reflection on the dearth of thinking by the present Government that growers and workers in the industry, instead of being encouraged, are being subjected to pressures for curtailment and contraction, when surely the opposite course would be in the national interest.

One has only to study the results of the latest sugar beet campaign to see how illogical and unwarranted this policy of retrenchment is, this policy of amputation. The campaign to which I refer was the best in the industry's history. Beet growers were paid almost £60 million. Nearly £20 million of that was paid to the farmers who supplied Thurles factory. A further £5 million or so was paid to the farmers who grew for Tuam. The workers in the four factories, who of course in the main are farmers' sons and daughters or their neighbours in rural towns, earned something in the region of £30 million in wages. In addition, the servicing of the industry with transport and so on gave good employment to many others.

What did the nation get? It was saved £150 million in import substitution and £100 million worth of sugar was provided to serve the needs of the island as a whole with reserves for export directly and indirectly of goods containing sugar. The by-products processed into animal feedstuffs at the factories were worth more than £20 million. In financial terms it was also a profitable operation. Since Fianna Fáil established this industry in 1933 its story has been one of success, innovation, diversification and profit.

In 1933, when Eamon de Valera, Seán Lemass and Seán MacEntee set the objective of this industry, it seemed to some people to be an in opportune time to do this. At that time the great nations of the world were in the depths of political upheaval. Millions were unemployed throughout the world. A weak Irish economy felt the bitter blast from outside and was further hurt by depressed conditions at home.

The existing privately owned sugar company in Carlow was on the point of collapse. Those deemed wise and careful at that time counselled closure. Through the mechanism of the Irish Sugar Company the then Fianna Fáil Government decided not only to buy the Carlow factory but to build three other factories as well. Who today would challenge the wisdom of their decision. Who today can calculate the value of that decision to the country and to the thousands who have benefited from that and who will continue to do so provided the Government will give the industry a chance? It was not by any accident that the late Eamon de Valera chose Tuam for the turning of the first sod for that new industry, that bold venture. The underprivileged west and the attendant problems of its people held a special place in the consideration of de Valera and of Fianna Fáil, just as it did in the case of Pádraig Pearse.

Some years ago the Archbishop of Cashel, the Most Rev. Dr. Morris, said there are few industries which illustrate the interdependence of people in a community better than the sugar beet industry. On turning the first sod for the nationalised industry at Tuam almost 50 years ago, Eamon de Valera struck the same note when he said we should see the things on which we can agree rather than things on which we differ. Later at Thurles in establishing factories such as these, he said we were making the way for a self-sufficient and a self-supporting State. De Valera had no doubts in 1933.

When I visited Tuam last May and toured the factory, I said to the workers that afternoon that, as spokesman on agriculture for Fianna Fáil, I was expressing the continued commitment of Fianna Fáil to the development of Irish agriculture and industries based on agriculture. I said then, and I repeat now, that the policy which Fianna Fáil have pursued since 1932 has had a vital impact on the economic and social fabric of rural Ireland. It has brought increased prosperity to our farmers and has provided meaningful, rewarding and real jobs for our people in their own local environment.

This party resent and reject the smears of those who now belittle our efforts. Fianna Fáil remain adamant that that same principle is the way forward. The history of the sugar beet industry is a classic vindication of our policy in this regard. The Tuam factory played and continues to play a vital and integral role in this policy. Tuam may be small by European standards and a cost factor on the overall Sugar Company operation but I am sure the House will agree that they have served the region very well.

We should not forget that during the Emergency years the Tuam factory, and the farmers who grew for it, served the national effort, sometimes producing more than other factories could. I said last May in Tuam that the factory was deliberately placed there to help in the development of the west. It was the first industry auxiliary to agriculture set up in the province. The west still has special problems, it needs the factory and a need for political support for it still remains. When Fianna Fáil located the factory there, they were not motivated by profit considerations alone although, five decades later, it can be argued that their contribution to the national effort has been considerable and more than justifies the decision made some 50 years ago.

It is Fianna Fáil policy to retain the factory and to use it as a vehicle to create a greater balance in farming patterns in the west generally. Without the Tuam factory and its various ancilliary involvements over the decades, tillage in Connacht would have all but vanished by now. What an imbalance that would have left. Its critics point to the small acreage provided for beet but the percentage under beet in Connacht, when related to tillage in general, is perhaps greater than anywhere else here. One acre committed to beet in effect commits three acres to tillage when rotational patterns are considered. This is vital to farmers in the west, especially to the provision of winter fodder in a region which can be very severe on livestock. We must never forget that the west is vitally important nationally because of the excellence of its cattle and sheep.

I repeat that Fianna Fáil will resist all attempts to deny the west the opportunity which such industry provides. Fianna Fáil set it up at a time of depression. We reject the false logic that it should be closed down at a time of economic recession. I fully acknowledge the difficulties of the Sugar Company. They have never been in a position to hold adequate funds in reserve to meet the heavy refurbishing costs which were necessary recently to modernise and expand their 50-year-old factories. Their profits, which were substantial over the years, were, of necessity, ploughed back into the building up of the industry at field level, research projects, seed and soil testing, disease control, the provision of essential limestone quarries, manufacture of farm equipment vital to our special needs and in assistance to exporting firms using sugar in their products. The State, through the Sugar Company, provided all these aids to farmers and business interests by virtue of the Fianna Fáil decision to set up the industry. No other sugar processing company had to embrace such an undertaking. In other sugar beet producing countries, the services either already existed or were provided by farmers or co-operatives. The Sugar Company did this work superbly. We have an expertise in this area of agriculture which is of tremendous value to the nation.

It must be acknowledged also that the Sugar Company undertook the development of the vegetable processing industry and financed it from their own resources. That national undertaking put a further strain on the company's finances. Economic conditions and factories with inadequate protection within the EEC framework add further to the difficulty of Ireland having, as it should, a horticultural industry capable, as the sugar industry has been, of meeting national needs and winning markets abroad.

We are now being prepared for the second closure announcement on Tuam. There are leaks almost daily to create the necessary climate. No one is under any illusion. The Government want to get rid of the Tuam factory. The Minister for Agriculture said, in reply to questions over the last couple of weeks, that only viable enterprises can be tolerated. We all subscribe to that but how do you judge viability in the context of a national industry which has a development role to play? Let nobody think that continued and intense research is no longer required in the beet industry, there is much still to be done in this regard.

Last year this party, acknowledging this, brought in legislation which strengthened greatly the Sugar Company's financial base and, though funds were scarce, we gave a substantial £30 million injection to the industry then. We did not provide that money to close down Tuam or to close down the food enterprise of Mattersons of Limerick, or East Cork Foods in Midleton. That money was provided to enable the Sugar Company to become viable in all their operations in the context of their national contribution.

Of course we envisage rationalisation in industry. Industry must change and adjust, but there is a difference between that and taxing an industry and, indeed, a way of life out of existence. If the Sugar Company are forced to close it will be only a matter of time before beet growing ceases in Connacht. At present well over 1,000 farmers are serving the one factory and some of them have been growing beet for almost 50 years. Then there is the position of workers, not all of them on the Sugar Company payroll, but in considering the growers more than 500 persons have full-time employment because of the sugar factory in Tuam. I repeat that because it is worth repeating. In considering the growers more than 500 persons have full-time employment because of the sugar factory in Tuam. That is worth considering carefully in the context of this motion and in the context of the feeble approach of the Government in their amendment, which says:

supports the Government in its efforts to secure the future of the sugar industry on a viable basis.

What are the Government's thoughts on this? Will they close the factory? If that is so no support will be given to the Government from this side of the House, considering that 500 persons have full-time employment there because of the sugar factory in Tuam.

Being conscious of these factors, Fianna Fáil reiterated their philosophy towards the sugar factory, particularly the Connacht section of it, when it became clear two years ago that the then Labour-Fine Gael Government were determined to thwart a great national enterprise because of their clouded vision of this country's future. When our party had the opportunity in Government last July we backed that philosophy with further strengthening legislation. In other words, we have consistently and deliberately over the years supported the Irish Sugar Company, particularly their operation in Tuam. We have said over and over again that the Tuam sugar factory is and must be an integral part of the whole sugar industry and we have brought in legislation and given the necessary financial support for this. We have also stated that Tuam cannot and should not be considered in isolation as this Government are doing, that the whole sugar industry and the whole Irish Sugar Company complex must be looked at together. It is patently improper for this Government to endeavour to nullify what is a legitimate national aspiration, the requirement to treat all areas of this country with equal concern, and that means assisting the less privileged regions. I have no doubt at all if the current thinking at Government level is not abandoned Thurles will most certainly come under the closure threat. Those who fly the kites for the present administration have already written off the factory in Thurles which serves the beet farmers of Waterford, Wexford, Laois, Tipperary and Kilkenny. The thinking of this Government is to close down any enterprise which is not profitable regardless of the social consequences that will have for the people of the west and more particularly for the farming community and workers associated with this factory at Tuam.

Is the Deputy saying that Thurles is not profitable?

(Limerick West): I never said that.

The Deputy should look carefully at the record.

(Limerick West): The Deputy was not listening to me. I said that the thinking of the Deputy's party when in Government along with the Labour Party was that Thurles would also come under the threat and it was only a matter of time.

I thought the Deputy said that Thurles was not making money.

(Limerick West): If the Deputy will sit down and listen he will learn something.

Tell us what the Government decided in 1981. What did Deputy MacSharry decide in 1981 and what did he subsequently tell the Seanad? The Deputy is being very selective about what happened in 1981.

(Limerick West): I am telling the truth. We backed this financially every time we got an opportunity to do so. The Deputy's party and the Government are closing down the Tuam factory regardless of the social consequences.

He quoted——

Deputy Noonan, without interruption.

(Limerick West): For the benefit of Deputy Molony I will say that if current thinking at Government level is not abandoned Thurles will most certainly come under the closure threat. The factory and the industries and services which have grown up around it gave full employment to well over 1,000 people, not to mention the equivalent of another 1,000 full-time jobs on the beet farms which supply it. These jobs are not protected. They were created from the sane and solid policies laid down by those who established this industry and, as I said earlier, the benefits of their labour for Ireland are rich indeed, as is widely appreciated. The beet industry is indeed one which binds town and countryside in mutual enterprise, and the Deputy's party are forgetting about the social consequences of their policies at present not alone to the sugar industry but to all other industries. This industry is a classic example of co-operation between private enterprise, farming and the State, through the agency of the Sugar Company. It is an industry with an enormous multiplier effect within the economy and Ireland has exploited that characteristic to good effect. We must concentrate on it even more so in the future as such an industry based on agriculture offers a security to the country that few enterprises can at this stage. To tamper needlessly with such an enterprise is to risk damaging the entire industry. The balance has been set and it must remain.

There are many small factories in Europe and they are suitable in the west of Ireland. The State should view Tuam factory as an innovator in a national effort to improve agriculture, especially tillage, in Connacht. That factory should not be turned into a political football. I am afraid that is what is being attempted and I condemn it.

In doing so the Deputy is condemning himself.

(Limerick West): If we believe that the country cannot afford to be without a sugar industry on the basis that it is a strategic industry in an agriculture country then it is simple logic to say that the western region, with its special problem in this regard and 50 years of experience of beet growing, should not be victimised or denied. The Sugar Company should be encouraged to get the best possible results for the west. It should receive the political and public support and understanding necessary to do so. Beet growing is an essential basic industry for us. With our mixed farming pattern it would be utter folly not to foster it, but the Government would not understand that.

Why did the board of the Sugar Company want to close Tuam?

The Minister will tell us that.

(Limerick West): We will leave that question to the Minister.

Is it that the Deputy does not know?

The Deputy should worry about Thurles.

Deputy MacSharry knew the reason in 1981. Why the deafening silence?

(Limerick West): Actions speak louder than words; we have invested the money where necessary.

That was when the Deputy's party picked it up and used it as a political football.

(Limerick West): We have proved our sincerity down the years. We set up the factory more than 50 years ago and it has served the area well.

Is the Deputy referring to the Tuam factory or the Sugar Company?

I have given a lot of latitude but Deputy Noonan has but six minutes to conclude and he should be allowed to continue.

I have never listened to such hypocrisy in my life.

(Limerick West): If the Deputy cannot resist interrupting he has an option. He does not have to listen to me. The possibilities for beet growing were seen at the beginning of the century and Fianna Fáil made them a reality. That did not happen without Fianna Fáil having to endure the criticism and scorn of those anxious to belittle that industry. We still have such people. One of the considerations that had to be taken into account by Fianna Fáil at the time was the need to develop our agricultural industry nationally. There was a recognition also that tillage practice mainly among the smaller farmers needed special encouragement. A further consideration, which remains as true today as it was then, was the desperate need to find employment in a local environment for the sons and daughters of farmers and those in rural towns serving them.

We have not yet reached the stage in our development when we can ignore the need for regional input. Other regions remain to be developed and there must be a determination to plan and build for the future. The solution to our problems will not be found through a policy of closing down industries which people with original ideas built. It will not be found by driving thousands of workers on to the dole queues. The country would be best served if we motivated people, as they were in the past, to build industries like the sugar factories and, more important, to have more of them based on agriculture. Fianna Fáil believe that because of the recession and the necessity to create employment, for our young people in particular, we must turn to agriculture to provide industries. I have no doubt that in the future we will continue to look to rural Ireland to build up industries like the Sugar Company. I appeal to the Government to give the people on the western seaboard a chance to survive, as Fianna Fáil gave them. Fianna Fáil have given the example and the Government should follow it.

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"supports the Government in its efforts to secure the future of the sugar industry on a viable basis."

I welcome the opportunity to discuss with Members the situation of the Irish sugar industry. Deputies are aware that the Department of Finance and the Department of Agriculture have received a progress report and a rationalisation plan about the sugar industry from the Sugar Company. We have had that report for about two weeks and, following consideration in the coming weeks, recommendations will be sent to the Government for a decision. I am not going to give any categoric assurance tonight about the future of any part of the Sugar Company. There will be no such assurances given and there will be no decisions made until that report is fully studied by the Departments in question and, eventually, by the Government. Furthermore, I have seldom heard such false and dangerous assumptions as those made tonight by Deputy Noonan regarding the Thurles factory. I challenge the Deputy to name the source of his allegations. As the Minister responsible for the Sugar Company in general, I am astounded to hear an Opposition Deputy say that there are moves within the Government to close the sugar factory in Thurles.

(Limerick West): The Minister must be aware of what is happening.

It is only right that the Deputy should quote his sources in order to dispel the fears of the workers in Thurles sugar factory, the general public in the area and the growers who supply that factory. What the Deputy has said is news to me. I have not heard any statement to that effect at Government level, sugar board level or even as a general rumour. I can only state here tonight that any such statement by Deputy Noonan is construed by me as being purely mischievous and highly dangerous. The onus is on the Deputy to state his sources or else retract what he has stated.

(Limerick West): The onus is on the Minister to give an assurance that the Thurles factory will not close.

The Deputy's speech tonight was a piece of drama. It was about the worst speech I have heard in this House since I came into it.

In fairness I should say that we have some factual basis, if such exists, for the statements made by the Deputy.

I do not believe there was any statement of fact contained in the Deputy's speech.

I assure Deputies that in my examination of the proposals in the rationalisation plan I will take into account all constructive and realistic proposals which may be put to me in the course of consideration of the motion now before the House. In saying that I would like to let the Members opposite know that I have a completely open mind in relation to this whole matter. Neither the Government nor I have any preconceived notions. In an effort to maintain a sense of constructive realism I propose to put a number of relevant factors to the House. These will, I hope, put the position of the Irish sugar industry into perspective.

Firstly, let me say that Exchequer funding, though a very important and even crucial issue in regard to this matter, is not the sole consideration here. The very future of beet growing and sugar production is at stake. Therefore, I want to emphasise at the outset that we are dealing with an industry which, at a national level, needs to be underpinned and secured. This House has had occasion several times over the past three years to take stock of the situation in regard to CSET and the beet sugar industry. It has underwritten the provision of large amounts of public money, and has debated thoroughly the choices facing the industry. It is, therefore, with some dismay that I find the Opposition making use of the same kind of selective argument, and demonstrating their habitual reluctance to face stark reality. I can put the position into a nutshell now by saying that the issue is whether we are or are not to have a sugar industry in five years' time.

The world does not stand still, and adjustment waits for none of us. The future of our sugar industry will be determined by our response to a whole series of challenges that have been building up over the past 20 years or so and of further new challenges which will have to be faced over the coming four to five years. The yardsticks by which our industry has to be measured are not manufactured in Earlsfort Terrace or even Kildare Street. They are handed to us, whether we like it or not, by beet producers and factory managements in other areas of the European Community who, in addition to enjoying natural and climatic advantages, have founded their own industry on considerations of efficiency and profitability and who have put themselves in a position to exploit any opening that our own lack of foresight affords them.

Let there be no doubt anywhere in the House that this is the real issue. Although I am somewhat less than seven months' in office as Minister, the Sugar Company's affairs are not all that new to me. I first came into close contact with them in 1980 as a member of the Joint Committee on State-Sponsored Bodies. I believe that all of us would do well to reflect yet again on the contents of that report in its essentials. That joint committee was representative of the three main parties in Dáil Éireann. As far as I am concerned, it is a fundamental document, and one which I wish to see guiding our thinking. It opens by describing the nature and history of the Sugar Company. It points out that its legal character is that of a joint stock company and there we come up against the first consideration that is material for us. When the company were established in 1933 the legal form chosen for them was not that of a board like the ESB or the Pigs and Bacon Commission. It was set up not as an authority, but as an enterprise, a State enterprise admittedly, but an enterprise for all that. Indeed, for many years the bulk of their share and debenture capital came from private citizens. Only with the expansion of the company's activities in the early sixties did the State's holding become predominant. That is a point which is not often appreciated by the general public or even some Deputies.

I need not remind this House that the clouds had been gathering for some time before the Joint Oireachtas Committee made their report. By 1980 the company overall were in a very substantial loss-making position to the extent of £11 million for the financial year 1979-80. The committee had anticipated this and had structured their recommendations accordingly. They drew the attention of the two Houses to the need for new shareholders' capital and recommended that £25 million be provided immediately. This new capital would in effect be new Government funding to be applied to reverse the devastating trend in the company's finances.

There followed a period of analysis, of debate, of determining strategy. The company were asked to come forward with their proposals for financial restructuring. This they did in May 1981. It fell to the incoming Government in July 1981 to assess these proposals and to take matters forward from there. They sought expert advice on the steps needed to restructure the company's finances. They commissioned a consultants' report, which was submitted in April 1982 to my predecessor, Deputy Lenihan. They offered the then Minister a series of alternative plans for financial restructuring. This afforded him the basis for bringing the company's problems to the attention of the Oireachtas when he introduced the Sugar Manufacture (Amendment) Bill in June 1982. The purpose of that Bill, Deputies will recall, was to empower the company to broaden their capital base considerably, to increase their authorised share capital from £10 million to £75 million, and to enable the Minister for Finance to fund and take up new issues.

Deputies will recall the debates that took place in July last when the Bill went through both Houses. Much goodwill was evident on all sides. There was, I think it is fair to say, a degree of relief in the air that the task had been commenced and that the Government had declared firmly for the sugar industry's future. Along with the Government's financial commitment came a requirement for rationalisation. In exchange for new funding which Deputy Lenihan secured for the company he sought a rationalisation plan designed to set the company back on the road to viability. Let that be clear: that Deputy Lenihan, when Minister for Agriculture, sought a rationalisation plan designed to set the company back on the road to viability.

A plan came in August 1982. Its main features were the closure of certain food operations in the Erin Food chain, specifically the Mattersons cannery at Limerick and the East Cork Foods plant at Midleton. The then Government did not take a decision on the August plan but provided £30 million in early October subject to conditions to be notified later.

The people opposite promised to keep them open.

(Limerick West): That was during the election.

I might point out to Deputy O'Keeffe that it was as a result of a rationalisation plan sought by the Minister of the day, Deputy Lenihan, that these proposals were made.

What is wrong with Midleton that was not wrong with Tuam? I am surprised Deputy O'Keeffe is taking that anti-Cork bias.

Acting Chairman

Would Deputies O'Keeffe and Molony allow the Minister to continue?

The subsequent dissolution of the Dáil and ensuing election precluded the notification of such conditions to the company until February of this year. The new funding improved matters considerably, of course. The 1980-81 accounts, published in early 1982, had revealed further losses amounting to £12 million.

When the present Government were in a position to consider the unfinished business of the Sugar Company's rationalisation plan, they reached the conclusion that it would not be enough to accept closures as they were proposed. They decided they would have to keep a close eye on the progress being made to achieve viability.

Accordingly they sought from the company a second rationalisation plan, complementary to the first and prepared in the light of a progress report to be submitted at the same time. The Government were determined to carry through the task, begun by their predecessors of getting the company back on their feet and into a position where it could generate their own capital for reinvestment and thus ensure their survival.

Just why it had failed to do that so far is a central issue that is crucial to any realistic consideration of proposals or possibilities for the continuation of the various Sugar Company enterprises. No one will deny that the food business absorbed the major part of the profits that could have been used in the previous decades for sugar reinvestment. Of course, that creates much of the problem with which we are confronted. The Sugar Division itself did not perform as well as it should have. The Sugar Company annual accounts to the end of September 1982, produced in February of this year, showed a loss of £22 million pounds. While there are special circumstances applying to that loss figure it is patently obvious that the Exchequer could not continue to fund the company without inquiring further into the fundamental causes of the colossal losses being incurred.

It is abundantly clear to me, as it is to the company — as indeed it was to the Opposition when they were on this side of the House — that State investment in the Sugar Company must be real investment. It cannot just become debt clearance. It must be matched on the ground by a fundamental redirection of the efforts that the company make to register profitability every year.

As a matter of interest, those sentiments were expressed by a member of the present Opposition when speaking at a meeting of Wexford Committee of Agriculture on 28 September 1981. I might quote from The Irish Press of Wednesday, 30 September 1981:

Wexford Fianna Fáil TD Mr. Hugh Byrne has supported the Government's decision to close the Tuam sugar factory——

The Government being the National Coalition of the day.

——thereby defying the official party line on the issue.

Deputy Byrne told a meeting of the Wexford Committee of Agriculture that a firm declaration of government's intention to close the Tuam factory within a year would have to be sought.

(Limerick West): Does the Minister agree with it?

I am telling the House what he said. I am quoting what Deputy Byrne stated:

"The Tuam sugar beet factory is a lame duck operation and it has always been the same. The factory should never have been built in Tuam," he said.

Deputy Byrne claimed that the factory would not have been built in the west of Ireland but for political influence.

"Farmers in Wexford grow 22,000 acres of beet every year and that is enough to support a factory on its own, but the factory we should have got went to the west of Ireland instead," he told the meeting.

The cost of supporting this "lame duck operation" had now grown too high", he stated.

(Limerick West): Does the Minister agree with it?

Acting Chairman

Would the Minister help matters by continuing please?

(Interruptions.)

I am surprised at the Minister making a joke out of such an important matter.

It is no joke, if the Deputy wants to interrupt that is his business.

The people opposite have been kicking it around as a political football for the past three years.

Acting Chairman

Would Deputy Molony cease interrupting?

Thirty million pounds was put into the company last year. It was put in essentially for financial reasons: to get the balance sheet right and to point the management in the direction of renewed profitability. The investment that the company badly needs in improved capacity and plant has been going on with bank finance. The immediate effect of this new funding is to substitute shareholders' equity capital, which should be serviced in the long-term, for bank debt, which must be serviced on the due date, thereby further increasing losses brought about through heavy interest payments. The equity injection gives a company a breathing space, time to redirect its energies for a new thrust towards profitability.

What I have got from the company in the last fortnight is a report on their present position and a plan which asseses the prospects for self-sustaining viability in respect of each facet of the company's activities. It is, as I have said in answer to questions, a long and complicated document — 65 pages long excluding appendices. It is being examined by accountants and other staff in my Department and in the Department of Finance. Only when this examination is completed will I be able to draw any conclusions about whether it is a workable blueprint and as to the action to be taken on the foot of it. Before I put it to the Government I must be convinced that it will lead where it purports to lead. Ultimately, it is the Government and not the Minister for Agriculture alone, which will take the decisions in regard to the plan. Deputies can be assured that all known implications, including employment, social and other factors will be fully considered by the Government when coming to their decision. I repeat my hope that Deputies will use the opportunity afforded by this debate in a constructive and positive way. The plan is the company's plan. It assumes that the company will have a future. It recognises that there is considerable scope for further tightening up of the company's operations. It assumes — and this is the issue underlying the Opposition's motion — it assumes that the Tuam factory will be closed after the 1983-84 campaign, in January next. That is an assumption that is erroneous. I have an open mind on the matter and so have the Government.

(Limerick West): It is the Minister's assumption.

That is an absolutely incorrect statement.

The plans are quite clear from the Minister's script.

(Interruptions.)

Acting Chairman

Would Deputies O'Keeffe and Molony cease interrupting?

Now I understand the extent to which the Tuam factory is seen in Connacht as a flagship for industry west of the Shannon. It is impossible not to be aware of the feelings that run deep whenever its closure is threatened. I might mention for the information of the House that I intend to visit Tuam in the next few weeks to see the situation at first hand and to consult with workers and management there.

(Limerick West): Very good.

The Minister should not tell them he is arriving.

If that is to be the attitude on the Opposition benches it is a very poor reflection of their outlook. I presume the people in Tuam have a considerably greater regard for people who show a genuine interest in their industry than some of these Opposition Deputies.

Will the Minister of State, Deputy Connaughton, be travelling with the Minister?

The Deputies opposite need not worry; he does not lack courage at all.

(Interruptions.)

So far, I have concentrated on the financial aspect of the Sugar Company's affairs. It is, however, necessary to consider the structural aspects of the sugar industry in Ireland and to set it into its European context.

Sugar beet is not, as any farmer will tell you, an easy crop to grow. It makes demands on a farmer's judgment and skill. It calls for care in sowing, constant attention during the growth period, and rigorous defence against disease and pests. It calls for heavy investment in machinery, and is particularly demanding of well-prepared soil. It is a crop which calls for a degree of specialisation if even moderate results are to be obtained.

Sugar production, however, requires very considerable capital investment and the economies of scale enjoyed by the larger continental factories could rapidly put the Irish industry out of business were it not for the safeguards afforded by the Common Agricultural Policy.

This common policy for sugar works to the advantage of our industry. Generally speaking, our costs by European standards are high. Evidence given to the Joint Committee in 1980 put production costs per tonne of sugar in other Community factories at 60 to 70 per cent of costs in CSET. Put the other way round, CSET's production costs were some 50 per cent higher, and that was three years ago. Given the predominance of manufacturing costs in the sugar production chain, this cost disadvantage could ordinarily have priced CSET out of their own market.

The EEC quota system has, however, so far helped to safeguard our sugar industry in that it penalises production in excess of quota levels, through a system of levies and loss of price support. However, even these safeguards are not absolute and we must now guard against the real danger that the cost gap between the continental sugar manufacturers and ourselves could make an assault on the Irish market worthwhile.

We cannot block imports from our EEC partners and I have pinpointed that fact repeatedly in the past four weeks during the course of Question Time. Some people like to think we can put up a protective barrier against imports from our EEC partners. I do not know if it is a case of deliberate misrepresentation or just pure stupidity. It is time people got their thinking straightened out with regard to this matter. We cannot adopt a system of protection. Our sugar industry is just as vulnerable as the potato or vegetable industry. There is over-production of sugar in Europe, not to mind the amount of sugar coming in from the ACP countries. That puts our sugar industry in a very vulnerable position and all of us should be aware of that fact. If we are non-competitive with regard to sugar we will be up against imports, just as happened in the case of potatoes and vegetables. The sugar industry could suffer the same fate as the vegetable processing industry and that is not an unrealistic or exaggerated risk. It has happened and could happen again. The remedy depends on our own efforts and willingness to see and deal with reality.

Deputies must be aware that the EEC production quotas are due for review at the end of the year. Needless to say, I will be opposing vigorously any measures which might be to the detriment of the Irish sugar industry. However, the position remains that we are vulnerable on two fronts — that of costs and that of quotas.

It is not just a question of Exchequer money, but of the very survival of beet-growing and refining in Ireland. This is an area of activity which last season provided a cash return to growers in excess of £50 million and sugar with a cash value of £100 million, together with additional millions in value and revenue from byproduct feedstuffs. This contribution to the economy is such that it cannot be put in jeopardy and any decision taken in regard to CSET activities has to be viewed in the context of the overall national good.

The Sugar Company have reflected on the position and have decided that they cannot make progress towards viability unless the Tuam operation is discontinued. They have put this point of view to the Government.

As everybody concerned acknowledges, Tuam is a loss-maker. Debate hinges around the extent of that loss. It is put to us that there was an "operating loss" of £1.4 million for 1981-82, and that this will come down for 1982-83. Leaving aside the question of what an operating loss is — it is a concept which the Government's professional accountants find vague — the problem for the Government is not the figure of £1.4 million. Given the commitments made to meet the cost to the company of continuing with Tuam, the Exchequer has to come up with a figure nearer to £2.5 million. Now, this is not a manufacturing loss, nor is it an operating loss as indicated by the proponents of that idea. It is a cost penalty. It is the excess cost to the company of producing their sugar requirement in four factories as opposed to producing the same volume in three factories. This includes not just the specific running loss but also the cost of the weakened productivity at the other factories.

The Government, as I have said, have no commitment to close Tuam. They will look at the Sugar Company's proposals in the light of the analysis now being done in the Departments concerned, in the light of all the representations from interested parties that have been received, and will continue to be received.

They will not on any account be rushed into a decision without having all the relevant data at their disposal. They will have to consider the growing charge on public funds that subsidising the Tuam operation represents. For the coming campaign, that will be about £3 million or over £10,000 per annum for every full-time job in the plant.

They will have to consider whether inefficient use of capacity in the other factories is a risk which will put the industry's long-term future in jeopardy. They will have to keep their eyes fixed on the profitability of the investment which they are making in the taxpayers' name. Tasks of these kinds call for reflection and sound judgment, and that is what the Government will bring to them.

In conclusion, I wish to state I have no preconceived notions or intentions with regard to the Tuam factory and neither have the Government. The matter will be examined painstakingly and in depth during the coming weeks and it may be many weeks before a decision is made. The opinion and point of view of all will be taken into account, particularly that of Deputies opposite, the workers involved and the people in the Tuam area.

With the agreement of the House, I should like to give ten minutes of my time to Deputy Blaney.

Acting Chairman

That is in order.

I thank the Deputy and the Chair. I have a lot to say with regard to this matter and I shall try to get in as many points as possible in the time at my disposal. I was delighted to hear the Minister has not got a closed mind about closure of the Tuam factory. For a number of years many other people appear to have had closed minds. It appears to me that for years past Tuam has been doomed and was on the way out but I am not quite sure of the reason.

The Minister mentioned that in the past 12 months there has been an input of £30 million into the company. A sum of £46 million has been put into the company since 1978 and it is significant that only £1 million went to Tuam. Where did the rest of the money go? Why has Tuam been starved of funds? The factory was reprieved at one stage by the then Minister for Agriculture, Deputy Lenihan, and I went to see him on the matter with a deputation. The workers have carried out their undertaking with regard to redundancy and 75 employees have gone. The farmers lived up to their undertaking to increase the beet acreage. This year their beet acreage was raised by contract to 8,000 acres and, after a big fight, it was raised to 8,500 acres. There were 1,000 acres still available but it was not given to the farmers of Tuam despite the fact that there were thousands of acres available further south which could not be used because of the bad weather.

Why could this extra 1,000 acres not have been planted by farmers around Tuam? Who is trying to get this factory closed? Why is it that out of a loss making £22 million only £1.4 million can be attributed to Tuam? Why not spread the £20.6 million over the other factories and use the same yardstick? It would be unthinkable for us to abandon our sugar industry. We are under pressure in regard to prices and ACP imports to the EEC. This has been evident for a long time not only for sugar but for most agricultural products. A great many of the EEC surpluses are created by imports from third countries, developing countries and countries that need help. It should not be said that Irish beet growers are responsible for any or all of these problems.

In the west there are 450 workers directly involved and hundreds of farmers. That part of Galway, not to mention Tuam, revolves around the Sugar Company factory which is under threat yet again. If the farmers and workers are prepared, and they have shown that they are, to do their jobs to reduce production costs and increase the amount of beet produced so that this will be a more viable proposition, why are they not being encouraged? Why are they being threatened? Why were they not given more beet acreage this year, particularly at the end of the year when a further 1,000 acres could have been sown in Galway? This acreage was not given to the farmers of the west despite the fact that it could not be sown down south. There is something radically wrong here.

The quota given to us by the EEC is ours, whether we produce it or not. We have been producing less than the quota for a number of years, but last year we had a record yield because of the good weather. We have to keep up that quota because if we do not it will be reduced and this will have a detrimental effect not only on Tuam but on sugar production all over the country.

We hear talk about costs. It is not a fact that the same numbers are at present working in that edifice between Harcourt Street and Earlsfort Terrace as there were some time ago. That is one of the most valuable properties in this city. If the Sugar Company are so hard up, why not put that property on the market and bring the staff where they belong — down the country? They should have a hard look to find out why several enterprises under the Sugar Company and Erin Foods closed over the last few years. The numbers working on the administrative side are no fewer today than they were years ago, and they are costing £6 million annually. We talk about costs, why not look at those costs?

I ask the Minister to look at these figures. I know from what he said today that he has not closed his mind, neither has his Minister of State. His headline in the Tuam Herald last week gave some pointers as to what he thinks is wrong — he condemned the management. Listen to this about a factory which has been under threat, under pressure and is being threatened again. Last year the manager of the Tuam factory was sent to Carlow and he managed the Tuam operations from Carlow. Try that manoeuvre and see how it will work with any business. If we close this factory it will cost £5 million in redundancy payments and £1 million for the workers on the dole receiving £50 a week, not to mention those who will no longer be employed on the land.

In Tuam the packaging of sugar is done by hand. A machine could be bought for just a few thousand pounds but there is not that sort of money available for the Tuam factory. Neither can they get the money to update some of their extraction processes, which are running well below what they should be. These are areas I would like the Minister to take a very hard look at. He should also get the Sugar Company, as now constituted, to look at these areas too.

We heard that the Sugar Company recommended the closure of this factory. Is it not a fact that this vital matter was to be considered before the two vital board members retired and the two new members were appointed? Is it not true that two votes were taken at that meeting and the figures were six for closing and six for staying open? The second vote was taken and the vote was the same. Then one person switched and the vote was seven to five in favour of closure. The Minister must realise that this was a prejudiced decision and it is asking the Minister to put his head on the block to get the Sugar Company out of their difficulties.

Suppose there was no Tuam factory? Suppose there were no losses there? What about the losses being made in the other three factories? Translate that into a western seaboard exercise which has as much of a social content as it has an economic content. Think of the off-spin and the skills the Sugar Company brought to Tuam? If this factory is closed we will not have any of these skills in the future.

We hear a great deal about job creation. There seems to be no end to the money available to create new jobs, but we should look at the jobs we have and try to retain them, particularly in times of high unemployment, before we go out to the highways and the by-ways looking for doubtful propositions, many of which will close as soon as the grants have been secured and the ten years have elapsed. Then their books will show they have been making a loss from the start. This makes one wonder why these fly-by-nights set up business here if they have been losing money from the start. We have to look very hard at this whole area. We are talking about the west and what this closure will do to the morale of the people on the western seaboard where there is unemployment at rates which have not been seen for many generations. We are telling those people how much we are prepared to put into other parts of the sugar industry but which we are not prepared to put into the west.

Given the opportunity and the cooperation already displayed by the workers and the farmers, and given more research into better methods of planting and new strains of seed based on climatic conditions in the west rather than in the better parts of the east and south, that little unit in Tuam not only can survive but can expand and thrive. The Minister for Agriculture can do a great deal for these people by ensuring there will be no threat hanging over this enterprise in the coming year and for several years to come. Give this plant an honest chance and an opportunity to survive. They will show the Minister and the Sugar Company in particular that they are talking through their hats when they say that they must get rid of the Tuam plant if the company is to remain viable. If they applied that yardstick to the building in Dublin and the three factories they would close the whole company and everybody would be redundant. I am not suggesting that that should happen, far from it. I suggest that we keep Tuam. The Minister for Agriculture is the voice on whom we depend to ensure that this factory is kept open, that they are given the opportunity to produce more beet, which they are prepared to do, and that the workers be given the opportunity to reduce their numbers so that the costs will be reduced accordingly. They should be given some instruction from the laboratory in Carlow, based on what best suits the west, or indeed on new methods of planting. I thank Deputy Kitt for his courtesy.

I support my colleague, Deputy Noonan, on the motion which he has proposed. Having listened to the Minister, I am disappointed that there is still a cloud of uncertainty, even though the Minister says that he has an open mind over the future of Tuam factory. I was also disappointed with the amendment which he proposed, requesting Dáil Éireann to support the Government in their efforts to secure the future of the sugar industry on a viable basis. We do not know what those efforts are, because the amendment is so vague. I was hopeful that we would have something more definite from the Minister.

As Deputy Noonan has said, we are talking about 430 jobs — 230 full-time and 200 part-time. The Tuam factory has given a good contribution to the State and those people now working there deserve a definite answer from this Government. It was set up in 1934, when the sod was turned by Eamon de Valera. It was set up, not solely to make a profit, but to promote regional development and create employment in the west, as was stated very clearly by Seán Lemass in 1933. He said then regarding the beet crop for the sugar factory:

It will be a cash crop for farmers and indirectly create new business for quite a number of industries.

Those words are very true today. Sugar beet is a cash crop and in the Tuam area the company have been a great help in setting up other industries, particularly the small industries. It has given great skills and enterprise to those who have worked in the factories. The social reasons are as valid today as they were in 1934. I am glad to hear tonight that the Minister intends to visit Tuam. He will be pleased at the production unit there because for its size it is very good. It lacks the capital investment of the other factories and that is one matter on which I would be critical. The Minister will be pleased at what he sees in Tuam.

When, in 1981, we heard again that the closure of Tuam was being considered, the workers decided that they must play their part in improving the situation. They adopted a plan at the time which contained three elements — firstly, to increase the acreage of beet to 10,000 acres; secondly, to make an application for capital equipment and thereby reduce the losses; thirdly, to reduce the work force by 50 over three years. I would like to spell out some of the details of those three submissions which were made. They set up a special committee comprised of representatives of ACOT and of farming and sugar personnel and the results were as follows: 1981, 4,600 acres of beet; 1982, 6,950; and in 1983, when they were hoping for 10,000 acres, they were not allowed that but were given a figure of 8,500 acres. On the capital application for sugar packaging equipment and sugar extraction equipment, the arguments obviously were not understood or listened to by the Sugar Company because they were refused. On the question of the work force, I should like to point out what has been achieved there. By the end of 1983 the permanent work force in Tuam will have fallen by 90 and that will save CSET £900,000. This has been achieved by natural wastage, early retirement and non-replacement of workers and has been done without any friction. Indeed, it has led to greater productivity. In 1982 the production costs increased by a mere 3 per cent, which was by far the lowest in the company.

The Minister is aware that I have raised some questions in the last few weeks concerning Tuam sugar factory, in particular that of the operating loss. I still cannot understand why the Minister will not accept the £1.4 million operating loss. That figure has been agreed by the head office of CSET.

It is not just operating loss. It is the cost penalty.

I asked about the operating loss. I will be very glad if he will now accept that figure. It was accepted by the head office of the Sugar Company. I know that, as the Minister says, there is a difference between that and cost penalty. If the Minister is talking about interest charges, roll up interest over a certain number of years, he should in fairness go back to 1934 and take the situation from there. He should look at the contribution made since then by the Tuam factory and the profit made over those years.

On the question of £30 million advanced to the Sugar Company by the Minister for Agriculture of the time, Deputy Lenihan, I have not received from the Minister at Question Time in the past few weeks an answer to my question as to why not one penny of that £30 million was advanced to Tuam. In correspondence between the Department of Agriculture and the CSET, when Deputy Lenihan was Minister there was a certain commitment by the Fianna Fáil Government to keep Tuam open and that some of that money would be spent there. I quote from a letter from the Secretary of the Department of Agriculture to Mr. Sheehy, stating in the last paragraph:

Apart from the commitment by the Government to keep the Tuam sugar factory in operation, there is no other commitment of a non-commercial nature.

That was a definite commitment to Tuam, and the Minister of State must tell us why those conditions were subsequently altered in a letter dated 15 February, 1983. At Question Time in the last few weeks the Minister quoted the contents of that letter.

Coalition Governments in the past, even that of 1981, have handled the question of Tuam in a very insensitive manner. In 1981 there was a breakdown in communication between the Minister of Agriculture of the time, Deputy Dukes, and Deputy Connaughton as to what was happening, as to whether Tuam was even going to be discussed on the agenda of the CSET. We eventually heard that Tuam would get a year's reprieve, which was really an announcement that the Government intended to close down Tuam. Everybody at the time accepted that it was no concession at all to the Tuam sugar factory. There was uncertainty, the farmers could not invest in machinery and the workers did not know how they were going to bring about their rationalisation plans or voluntary redundancies.

We want a definite answer from the Government now. The Minister said, in concluding, that it may take some time and it would have to be discussed by various Ministers, the Minister for Finance, the Minister for Agriculture and the Cabinet. How long more can this cloud of uncertainty remain over the Tuam sugar factory? There has been much talk about the Oireachtas Committee which reported on the Sugar Company, of which the Minister was a member. That committee stated very clearly that, even though they recommended the closing of Tuam, there was no way in which Tuam would be closed until full alternative employment was provided.

Debate adjourned.
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