I move:
That a sum not exceeding £275,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1984, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Ombudsman.
Estimates 1984. - Vote 20: Office of the Ombudsman.
We are prepared to agree to this because I understand it is technically necessary that we should do so and we are prepared to facilitate the Government on that basis. I understand that if we do not pass this Estimate today the Ombudsman cannot take office. However, I want to indicate to the Government and the House——
I would refer Deputy Haughey to the Order which the House has just made.
If I had known that I could not say a word about this Estimate I would have raised it on the Order of Business.
The House made an order——
What Order did the House make?
This is the Order. By agreement the question or questions necessary to bring the proceedings on item No. 4 to a conclusion shall be put forthwith and decided without debate. That is what the House said.
I did not understand the House's procedure or I would have raised this on the Order of Business. Perhaps I might be allowed to explain our attitude to this Supplementary Estimate.
Yes.
The Chief Whip explained to us that it is technically necessary to take this Estimate today and have it passed, otherwise the Ombudsman's office and the Ombudsman himself cannot take up duty. I want to indicate to the Government and put them on notice that we object to and intend to oppose the size of this Estimate. I understand that £200,000 is allocated for salaries and that, apart from other things, a figure of £7,000 is included for consultancy fees. I would have thought that in these times this new office should have been established on a very economical basis. It seems that this Estimate is away beyond anything that is required, certainly initially, for the establishment of the Office of Ombudsman. I give notice that on a future occasion we will be returning to this and opposing strenuously the size of this Estimate.
Is the Minister replying?
While one shares Deputy Haughey's wish that public expenditure would be kept to a minimum, and I am sure he will welcome the general Book of Estimates having regard to that, I want to assure him that the Estimate for the Office of Ombudsman has been constructed with care if not parsimony.
Would the Minister explain the figure for consultancy fees of £7,000? For what purpose is that intended?
It is a contingency to deal with any consultancy matters that may arise during the course of the year. This is a new office to meet the needs that it has been felt have existed in our public administration services for a very long time indeed. It would be a pity to spoil the initiative by restricting the amount of money available for something as important as a consultancy service.
I am asking a question about a £7,000 consultancy fee. I know this Government almost automatically insert an amount for consultancy fees in every Estimate but I cannot see the justification for consultancy fees in this case as the man in question is not in office yet.
The Ombudsman will decide on the services he needs in order to operate with the greatest possible effectiveness. I am sure the Deputy will be anxious to ensure that this new office, which has been sought for many years, will be set in train in the right way.
Vote put and agreed to.