asked the Minister for Health if extra funds will be made available to the Southern Health Board for the current year to avoid a reduction in the standard of services and the level of health care as otherwise there will be a potential loss of 400 jobs.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Southern Health Board Services.
1.
As the Deputy will appreciate, the restrictions on public expenditure which the Government found it necessary to impose in the current year have affected the health services as well as other public services. The non-capital allocations approved for the Southern Health Board and other health boards are at the maximum level that could be made available on the basis of the overall resources provided by the Government for my Department for 1984. There will be no extra funds at my disposal which would enable me to increase the allocation for any health board.
The Deputy is presumably aware that, in addition to the allocation for on-going services in 1984 amounting, in total, to £150.97 million, of which £112.55 million is for services financed directly by the board, a special allocation of £2 million has been provided to enable the new general hospital in Tralee to be opened within the year.
I have been informed that at a meeting of the health board on 3 January, 1984 a resolution was passed proposing that the necessary reductions in expenditure be realised in the pay area without disemploying staff. The feasibility of taking action along the lines proposed by the board and the full range of possibilities for achieving cuts in expenditure both in the pay and non-pay areas are at present the subject of correspondence between my Department and the health board.
Is the Minister aware that, as a result of a shortfall of £4.6 million in this year's budget for the Southern Health Board, and in order to avoid a reduction in the standard of health services, they may be forced to lay off up to 400 workers? In view of this situation, would the Minister make extra funds available?
We are mid-way through February and none of the predictions of any health board has come true. I have received no notification from any health board of any redundancies or contemplated redundancies.
The Southern Health Board are carrying a shortfall of £2.2 million from last year.
In 1984 the Southern Health Board will employ an extra 350 people, most of them coming from Tralee.
For the hospital Fianna Fáil built?
Fair dues to Fianna Fáil, but fair dues to us because we opened it.
That will arise on Question No. 2.
May I take it that an extra 350 people will be employed in the new general hospital?
That is the agreed complement between the health board and the Department, requiring an additional expenditure of £2 million. The Government have received scant recognition from either the Southern Health Board or the public representatives in the area for the extra provision of £2 million and the creation of 350 extra jobs, but that is the way politics go, as the Deputy is aware.
I accept what the Minister said, but prior to the last general election the Minister's party gave a commitment that within two months of being returned to Government——
We cannot have a discussion of the general election at Question Time.
They have been in office for 14 months and it is not yet open.
Would the Minister give an undertaking that, in the event of there being job losses in the Southern Health Board area caused by Government cut-backs, those redundancies will not take place and that adequate funds will be made available in the event of that situation arising?
I cannot give any guarantee about anything in terms of the health services at this time. All I can say is that last year the Southern Health Board spent £1.549 million on overtime, £500,000 on on-call payments, £1.6 million on night duty, £4 million on public holiday and Sunday duty and £250,000 on Saturday duty. Admittedly much of this expenditure is necessary, but when one takes into account that £8 million was spent in that direction, it should be within the capacity of the health board not to have any redundancies.
Is the Minister suggesting that in the hospital and health services there should not be overtime to cope with emergency situations, that there should not be on-call allowances paid to staff and that no holiday money should be paid? Has the Minister received a request from the Southern Health Board to meet the Minister to discuss the difficult situation in which the board find themselves?
I am saying that these figures would indicate even on a superficial examination that there may be an incidence of rostering of staff in situations which may not necessarily be required.
As a member of the Labour Party, would the Minister not agree that he is playing a game of bluff?
I will not allow argument.
The Minister knows what I mean. Have the health board asked to meet the Minister to discuss their crisis situation?
I have been in correspondence with the health board because they——
Have they asked the meet the Minister?
In a report of a meeting on 3 January last year the health board agreed to reduce the cost of the supplements I mentioned by no less than three-fifths for the purpose of recovering a short-fall of £4.6 million in the allocation for non-capital expenditure. My Department are concerned about the content of that resolution, in other words, they decided to reduce on-call supplements by three-fifths of £7.9 million. I am in correspondence with the health board on that matter. There may be other options in the health board area which would ensure that they remain within their budget and they would not necessarily have to have redundancies.
Has the Minister been asked to meet members of the health board?
I would remind the Deputy that——
I have asked this question three times.
I must remind the House that we are still at Question No. 1 and if we proceed at this rate, with luck, we will take six questions today. Maybe that is what the House wants.
I have not had an answer to my question. Has the Minister been asked to meet representatives of the health board?
This is not a court of law where you can conduct a cross-examination.
On a point of order, nobody suggested that this was a court of law. When you were on this side of the House the least you expected was an answer to a simple question. Has the Minister been asked to meet representatives of the Southern Health Board?
Not to my recollection.
It is now the middle of February and the Minister has ignored the request.
I am calling Deputy Wallace.
The Minister is aware already that the Southern Health Board recently announced a wide range of cuts in services. Is the Minister aware that they cannot meet their commitments with a reduction of £4.6 million without laying off staff? Will the Minister meet the Southern Health Board, has he any plans to do so, or does he intend allowing them to go ahead laying off staff and side-step the direct question he has been asked here? Will the Minister answer the question: is he or is he not prepared to meet the Southern Health Board?
In view of the Minister's reply and the shortfall of £4.6 million to the Southern Health Board does the Minister realise that 70 per cent of the Southern Health Board's Estimate will go on paying wages and salaries which means that the £4.6 million must come out of the remaining 30 per cent? A new hospital is being opened in Tralee. Does the Minister think that the Southern Health Board can conduct their business as a health board with a shortfall of £4.6 million while allowing for the opening of the new general hospital in Tralee that will cost twice as much as did the old county hospital?
I want to make a very clear statement to Deputies on this matter. At a meeting of 3 January 1984 the Southern Health Board adopted the following resolution, I might stress, by an overwhelming majority:
We hereby agree to reduce the cost of supplements to basic pay as indicated in the report, dated 29 December 1983, from the Chief Executive Officer, by three-fifths for the purpose of recovering a shortfall of £4.6 million in the allocations for non-capital expenditure in 1984.
Then they went on to say that, in the event of any proposal to eliminate or reduce supplements to basic pay which had been negotiated traditionally at national level either through conciliation and arbitration or Labour Court procedures, that such proposals should be renegotiated on a national basis. My Department have been in detailed consultation with the board as to the implementation of that decision of the board. I would recommend to the Southern Health Board — as indeed in the case of the North Western Health Board covering Donegal, Leitrim, Sligo, an outstanding health board — that they should be able to absorb this reduction without much difficulty. Indeed I would make the point that it is not a cutback, as such; it is a reduction in the demands of health boards put to the Department. I have no information whatsoever on any services in the Southern Health Board which are proposed to be eliminated or reduced. I would be interested in hearing from Deputies in that regard.
One question——
Question No. 2. According to any reasonable standards this question has received adequate attention.
The Minister stated earlier that there was no sign of the effects of the cutbacks, as yet. Will the Minister accept that the effects of these very severe cutbacks will not be seen until later in the year and that there must be a shortfall in the level of service — hopefully there will not be one in the quality of service — in view of the massive cut-backs across the board?
I have had my senior officers at assistant secretary and principal officer level visiting the various health boards in recent weeks to have detailed discussions with the Chief Executive Officers. I must confess I am encouraged, surprised in some instances, but I am really encouraged at the extent to which health boards are making a real effort this year to live within their budgets and, at the same time, provide the normal health services within the State. In fact I would be inclined to open up the question why it had not been done in previous years.
(Interruptions.)
Question No. 2. Will the Minister now please answer Question No. 2?
Just one final supplementary, a Cheann Comhairle; I do not often bother you.
I know the Deputy does not. But it does not matter who bothers me when I am bothered too much. Question No. 2.
A Cheann Comhairle——
No, I am sorry.
I am trying to be helpful to the Minister——
(Interruptions.)
I do not get much co-operation from the Minister either, I might tell Deputies. Will the Minister please answer Question No. 2?