asked the Minister for Education if she will outline the required formal qualifications for teachers of speech and language impaired persons in the various types of educational establishments in which they are placed at present; and if she considers such qualifications to be adequate.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Speech and Language Teachers.
21.
Teachers on recognised staffs of national schools who instruct speech and language impaired pupils would, in the first instance, have to hold the qualifications required under the rules for national schools.
Recognised teachers in special national schools who instruct such children would normally hold, as a specialised additional qualification, the diploma for teachers of the deaf and/or the diploma for teachers in special schools.
Both of these qualifications include expert training for teachers who deal with children having language and speech difficulties. I am satisfied that the present level of teacher training and the standard of the courses mentioned are fully adequate.
Is the Minister aware that there is a considerable level of concern among parents because of the slow progress of their children in certain areas? Would he accept that that is the case?
I am not aware of the concern expressed by the Deputy. If the Deputy has any case in mind and brings it to my attention I shall see if I can deal with the matter. The question I am asked is in relation to teachers. I am not aware that there are serious problems as mentioned by the Deputy.
Is the Minister satisfied, therefore, that the level of qualifications here is quite adequate to deal with the problem of speech and language impairment?
I am advised and am satisfied that the system of equipping teachers to deal with the problem mentioned in the question is adequate. There are teachers on specific courses to deal with problems of that sort. I am quite satisfied, particularly at primary level, that the facilities provided are adequate. If the Deputy is talking about post-primary, that is an area I should like to examine further. The answer is: yes, I am satisfied.
Is the Minister satisfied in general — I know we are talking about the teachers, but naturally teachers and students are intertwined — that as students move along from the primary school attending age they are adequately equipped to be absorbed into the second level?
That is a separate question.
With respect, a Cheann Comhairle, the Minister has already referred to it.
I have already referred to it in reply to a supplementary question from the Deputy but I have already said I am happy with the facilities available.
Are there formal examination qualifications required of these teachers in addition to the ordinary teaching qualification and, if so, can he say when those standards were first set?
In this particular case one is talking about a very wide area of different disabilities in children. It is very rare that there is one impairment alone, in other words, one is talking about a very wide area. What I have said is that there is no specific training beyond the ordinary or normal qualifications of primary school teachers in the training colleges but we have courses regularly organised for teachers to deal with that problem.
22.
asked the Minister for Education if she has received a submission from the Irish Association for Speech and Language Impaired; and, if so, if she will make a statement on the matter.
A submission was received from the Chairman, Irish Association for the Speech and Language Impaired, in September 1983. Following a full appraisal of the submission a detailed reply was issued to the association dealing with the points raised in relation to the educational provision for speech and language impaired children.
Would the Minister be in a position to let the House know some of the major points made by that organisation in their submission?
I had a meeting with the chairman of the association mentioned. The details submitted to me are very lengthy. They made a number of points with which I would be unable to deal now, but I shall submit them to the Deputy if he requires them.
I would be grateful. Arising from the submission from the parents' association — I think they refer to themselves as Aphasiac — is the Minister satisfied that the facilities available to children with speech and language impairment are adequate in view of the concern that I understand is being expressed in that submission.
It is related to the previous question. As I said to the Deputy, I am satisfied at primary level particularly — at post-primary level I should like to examine the matter further — but I should say that, on the basis of the procedures adopted in relation to the children mentioned in the question, the health boards carry out the assessment and they then pass on their recommendations to us in the Department. In turn we ask our inspectors to investigate the best place the child or children in question can be put. I am satisfied that the procedures adopted are fairly effective and are as good as can be provided.
Is the Minister aware that a 1972 report commissioned by Deputy Faulkner, when Minister for Education, is available within his Department? Are the recommendations of that report to be implemented in relation to this problem?
I am aware of the report mentioned by the Deputy commissioned in 1972 and I am aware that its recommendations are being implemented.
23.
asked the Minister for Education the number of teachers employed currently North of the Liffey in the Eastern Health Board area and working with the speech and language impaired; the function these teachers have; the age at which the speech and language impaired children leave these schools and the follow-up facilities that are available to them if required; the number of children who left these schools in 1982 and 1983 and the percentage of these who were classified as capable of attending an ordinary national or secondary school.
Children with speech and language impairment attend a wide range of schools including both ordinary and special schools. The majority of children with serious disorders of communication attend, as appropriate, special schools for the hearing impaired, for the mentally handicapped, for the emotionally disturbed and for the physically handicapped, as their communication disorders are invariably associated with the foregoing handicapping conditions. Information regarding the staffing of these special schools will be forwarded to the Deputy.
Further statistical details in the form requested by the Deputy are not available to my Department.
I am disappointed that some of the details I requested here are not available because it makes it very difficult to ask the Minister further questions by way of clarification. What function have these teachers in these schools. I take it we are talking about special schools on the north side of the city catering for children with impairment, specifically here speech and language impairment?
The Deputy asked me the number of teachers employed currently north of the Liffey in the Eastern Health Board area and working with the speech and language impaired. I have informed the Deputy that information regarding the staffing of these special schools will be forwarded to him but that the other statistical information he has requested is not available in my Department.
But surely information on the function of these teachers would be available. What precisely is the function of these teachers because there seems to be a lot of confusion in relation to that?
Indeed the last three questions could have been taken together. With regard to the function of the teachers concerned, if the Deputy will put down a question, I will give him the information.
But I have the question down, a Cheann Comhairle. I said: "the function these teachers have;"— it is there in the question — and I want to draw the Minister's attention to it.
I have said that this information in relation to staffing will be communicated to the Deputy and that the other detailed statistical information is not available to me.
Why is there a difficulty about providing information here regarding the function of teachers?
I have said that I have not got the information in my brief and that I will communicate with the Deputy as soon as I get the information for him.
Part of Deputy Liam Fitzgerald's question relates to the follow-up facilities that would be available to these children when they leave these schools, be those education or social facilities. What information has the Minister in his brief relating to that aspect of the question: what follow-up facilities are available to those children?
Surely that is a separate question and, if the Deputy puts down a question, I will answer it.
No, I have it down.
It is in the question.
I have said that as soon as I get the information I will supply it to the Deputy.
I am extremely dissatisfied with this information. I want to put it to you, Sir, that I put down a question also to the Minister for Health and I received the same kind of answer. I am wondering is there a cover-up and, if there is, I want it uncovered. I am sorry, a Cheann Comhairle, but I am extremely disturbed about this. I regard this as a very serious problem. I am aware of the difficulties — I did not want to come out publicly on it — but I am now saying to the Minister that there is a problem here.
The Deputy must confine himself to a question.
Will the Minister agree with me that this constitutes a serious problem area, that there is dissatisfaction amongst parents with the level of service available which is totally inadequate?
I have already answered the question twice — I think this is the third time — that I am not dissatisfied with the services available. I have made that perfectly clear to the Deputy.
Why is the information not available regarding the function of teachers and the follow-up facilities?
I have said already to the Deputy, in regard to that, that I will make the information available to him but that I have not got it in my brief.
I am calling Question No. 24.
I appreciate the Minister's difficulty. Does the Minister appreciate that it is important for parents to have this type of information — the rate of progress their children should be expected to make, that this information is not being made available to them now. I can prove that——
What the Deputy is now saying would be more suitable to an Estimates debate.
Will the Minister confirm that for me?
I have no information to that effect but it is normal for inspectors of my Department to visit schools of that sort occasionally.