Deputy John O'Leary has been given permission to raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of Question No. 583 of 2 May, 1984 and the unsatisfactory reply to that question. Deputy O'Leary has 20 minutes.
Adjournment Debate. - Killarney Land Sale.
With the permission of the Chair, I propose to take 12 or ten minutes and to give eight or ten minutes to Deputy McEllistrim.
On 2 May I asked the Minister for Finance if he would take urgent action to prevent the proposed sale of land on the Muckross Road, Killarney, which was purchased by the State in connection with the provision of accommodation for the Department of Justice staff to be transferred to Killarney under the decentralisation programme and also if he would make a statement on the up-to-date position.
I am most dissatisfied with the Minister's answer as follows:
It is Government policy to dispose of all property surplus to State requirements, including sites which were acquired for the decentralisation programme.
I wish to give a brief history of the decentralisation programme generally and in relation to Killarney. The Fianna Fáil Government considered carefully the proposal for the decentralisation of Government offices. I want to put it on record that I have consistently, both in this House and outside it, favoured decentralisation to the maximum possible extent down the years. The Fianna Fáil administration in 1980 decided to embark on a programme for decentralisation and Killarney was designated as the town to which a part of the Department of Justice staff would be transferred — I understand about 200. I know full well what this meant, even to people employed in the State service in Dublin, because many in all grades were applying for transfers to the Department of Justice in order to get down to Killarney, particularly people who had come to the Civil Service in Dublin from the south and south west.
The land was purchased early in 1981. At that time it was very difficult to get land in Killarney for any type of project, but the owner of the land in question was glad to sell it to the Government when he realised that it was required for State purposes. His family stated that they would not hinder progress, particularly when the State were interested.
In 1982 plans were prepared and put out for tender by the then Fianna Fáil administration. The tenders were being considered at the time of the change of Government in December 1982. There was a Private Members' Motion some time in 1983 in connection with the decentralisation programme, requesting the Government to change their decision. This was defeated by the Government on a vote. I always was and am in favour of decentralisation because Dublin has become top heavy. It is well known that decentralisation, to a great extent, would ease many of the problems here in Dublin, such as planning, traffic, housing, environmental and transport problems. I could understand a Government deciding, in special circumstances, to postpone for a short period such a programe, but to abandon it is outrageous.
We must bear in mind what 200 jobs of this nature would mean to a town like Killarney and the surrounding area. The people of the area were considerably looking forward to the construction of the offices, and their staffing and manning. There is no doubt that such a project would be of tremendous benefit to the business community in the whole area. It would benefit the retail outlets, the garages, be a great boost for the housing and construction industry and would mean more employment in the area of recreational facilities in the town and in the surrounding district.
I ask the Government to reconsider favourably their decision regarding this decentralisation programme and to declare this intention. I cannot understand the thinking behind the decision to abandon entirely this scheme. I ask the Government, above all, not to sell the sites which have been purchased for the decentralisation programme throughout the country and particularly that in Killarney, where the State own thousands of acres of arable land. This particular site is suitable for Government offices and would not be suitable for other types of development, outside of housing perhaps. It is in a residential-cum-business area of the town.
There would be an outcry, not alone in Killarney but throughout the country, should the Government embark on their intention of selling this site. If they have not the will to develop it as Government offices I ask them to retain it until Fianna Fáil are returned to office. Fianna Fáil would proceed with the programme of decentralisation which is realistic, justifiable and in the national as well as in other interests. I have no doubt that this property will be developed as Government offices some time — perhaps in the not too distant future.
I also was extremely disappointed at the reply to Deputy O'Leary's question which stated that the Government intended selling the site which was purchased in Muckross in Killarney for decentralisation.
Fianna Fáil had a decentralisation programme and at that time purchased 13 sites throughout the whole country. They got great co-operation from many of the urban councils in the different counties who offered premier sites for this purpose. I was Minister of State in the Office of Public Works at the time when the site in Muckross, Killarney, was purchased. It is a beautiful site, in a marvellous area in Killarney where it is very difficult to get sites. It was a great achievement by the Office of Public Works to be able to negotiate a deal and get a site in Muckross. I am very disappointed to hear that the Government intend selling that site. The Fianna Fáil Government selected 13 towns for decentralisation. Some of the places selected were Killarney, Limerick, Nenagh, Cavan, Ennis, Letterkenny and Galway. Those buildings were designed by architects in the Office of Public Works. It must be very disappointing to those people after designing such beautiful buildings to see the whole programme scrapped.
I was very disappointed, like Deputy O'Leary, to hear that the site near Killarney was up for sale. I appeal to the Government, even at this very late stage, not to sell this site because at some future date, when we have a Fianna Fáil Government in power who are very committed to decentralisation, the decentralisation programme will be carried out. I believe the section in the Office of Public Works dealing with decentralisation was disbanded some time ago. That means the Government do not intend to go ahead with any of the decentralisation programme. This programme under Fianna Fáil was fully supported by the Public Service and a significant number of civil servants were to be transferred down the country. They welcomed this because they would get an opportunity to work in rural Ireland in their own counties and some would get an opportunity to work in their own towns.
Fianna Fáil started decentralisation when they transferred motor registration to Shannon. This has been very successful. Decentralisation would bring many social benefits. It would be a great relief to Dublin in relation to infrastructure, less traffic in the city, fewer houses needed in the city, where there is a great demand for them, and less parking. It would also mean that the salaries of those civil servants would be spent in the 13 selected towns which would be a great boon to the economies of those towns, and rural Ireland. There would be more room in the schools throughout the country for the children of those civil servants.
It was anticipated that over 200 civil servants would be transferred to Killarney. We hoped that 150 private houses would be needed in Killarney to house those civil servants within a year or one-and-a-half years of their transfer which would give a great boost to the construction industry. It is a very bad time for the Government to sell those sites. The property market is in very bad shape and some of those sites will not realise half the price they cost. I appeal to the Minister of State to ask his colleagues in Government to hold on to those sites because the property market is so bad they may not be able to sell them.
The construction industry in rural Ireland is doing very badly. If decentralisation proceeded it would mean there would be construction of buildings worth between £50 million and £60 million which would be a great boost to this industry. Parts of the country are becoming denuded of people. Those civil servants would give a great boost to rural Ireland especially to County Kerry and Killarney. This is not the first time the Government have undermined the activities of the Office of Public Works because some time ago they laid off 260 drainage workers. Now they are discontinuing the decentralisation programme and selling those sites.
Fianna Fáil intend to go ahead with the decentralisation programme. This was welcomed by all public servants who would be given an opportunity to work in their own towns and counties. Those sites were specially selected with great co-operation from the sellers. We also got great co-operation from the county councils and the urban councils to get those sites, some of which were bought at a reasonable price. I appeal to the Minister of State not to sell those sites as we will have decentralisation when we get back to power sometime in the near future.
This site of 2.77 acres at Muckross Road, Killarney, was purchased in connection with the decentralisation programme which has now been cancelled. The Minister for Finance has directed the Commissioners of Public Works to dispose of properties surplus to State requirements in order to provide additional funds for the commissioners' building programme which in turn generates great employment. The decentralisation site at Killarney is now surplus to requirements. Registration of title is now in progress and it is to be sold.
The thinking behind the selling of these sites is that the decentralisation programme would cost in the region of £45 million which is not available to the Government because of the economic climate. It is not envisaged that there will be building in Killarney in the next four to five years at least. It was with some reluctance that the Government decided not to go ahead with the decentralisation programme. The Government in general have a lot of sympathy with that programme. However, in practical terms and having regard to the present economic climate a sum of £45 million was not available. As it is not envisaged that the site will be used in the next four or five years and taking into account the present economic climate, it is more important to sell the site and invest the money in the building programme of the Office of Public Works. This will boost employment. It would not be right or proper for the Government at this time to leave a valuable site lying idle when there is no prospect of using it in the next four or five years. I wish to point out that there were six sites available to the Office of Public Works when they decided to buy this land. I consider it good policy to sell the site and invest the money in a building programme that will create employment.
With regard to the decentralisation programme, it was the view of the Government that it would not create any new jobs but would merely transfer jobs from Dublin to Killarney and to other centres. We are in the business of job creation and as the public building sector of the Government we should use all the moneys available to create jobs from our building programme.
I heard about decentralisation for many years before I became a Member of this House but very little has been done. Deputies have said it has been highly successful but I am not too sure that from an economic point of view it has been all that beneficial. I am not discounting entirely the advantages of decentralisation, which are many, but there are disadvantages. It costs much more to run part of an office in Killarney or elsewhere and part in Dublin. This has been quite evident in some instances where partial decentralisation has taken place.
There are many arguments put forward to justify decentralisation but it is not a one-sided issue. For instance, it has been found in the Department of Lands that by having the accountancy section in the west of Ireland payments are delayed. That is one of the disadvantages of decentralisation.
The Office of Public Works have found that it is not difficult for them to get sites in any area. As I have said, they examined six sites in Killarney but they happened to pick this site.
It may be £20,000 or £30,000 an acre.
A Government decision has been taken not to proceed in the foreseeable future with the building of these offices because the money necessary is not available in the present economic climate. Having regard to this, it cannot be argued that it is wise policy to leave a valuable site lying idle when the money could be used on projects that would provide immediate employment. The Government have adopted a responsible attitude.
If at any time the Government decide to go ahead with the decentralisation programme, land is available in Killarney and in other towns. As the site in Killarney will not be developed in the next four or five years by the Government it is better policy in the long-term to make it available for development rather than to leave it as a derelict site in the town. It is wise policy for the Government to make this site available either to the local authority or to other developers. This will create employment in the area.
The Minister of State said the total decentralisation programme would cost £45 million. What would the Killarney project cost?
I have not that figure.
About £2 million.
The Dáil adjourned at 9 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 16 May 1984.