Deputy Taylor has sought and been granted permission to raise the crisis in regard to itinerant resettlement in Tallaght. He has 20 minutes at his disposal.
Adjournment Debate. - Tallaght (Dublin) Itinerant Resettlement.
I want to express my appreciation to you for having given me the facility to raise on the Adjournment of the House the most critical and worrying situation which has arisen about the itinerant problem in Tallaght, County Dublin. I am quite happy to share my time with other Deputies from the area who are equally concerned about the position.
Studies show that one quarter of all the itinerants in the country are at present to be found in the new town of Tallaght, County Dublin. The responsibility for dealing with the matter of itinerant resettlement until now has rested with the local authorities, in this case Dublin County Council. Some years ago because of a decision of the Supreme Court, under injunctions the county council were prohibited from removing or resettling itinerants even from unauthorised sites unless they were in a position to make an offer of an alternative halting site to the family.
Following on that Supreme Court decision, a number of itinerant families moved into Tallaght and, in particular, the Tallaght by-pass, a new road constructed by Dublin County Council at a cost of many millions of pounds but never opened, and also on to lands which are the property of Dublin Corporation and intended to be the site of a new town centre for the town of Tallaght, and other lands belonging to the corporation and intended to be the site for the new Tallaght hospital. Both of those amenities are urgently required in Tallaght. The population of the new town of Tallaght has been deprived until now of both those facilities. Both of these sites have been used extensively, and continue to be used, as unauthorised camp sites by itinerant families.
Dublin County Council endeavoured on a number of occasions to bring in a programme of halting sites spread throughout County Dublin, some of which were to be located in Tallaght. At first the council ran into difficulties in getting a majority of the membership of the county council to adopt this plan. Eventually the plan for the halting sites was adopted by a majority of the members of Dublin County Council. Unfortunately, however, as a result of the long delays, and the increased suffering of the settled community in Tallaght, and also the itinerants who are located on the unauthorised sites, an appalling degree of anger built up among the people of Tallaght.
It is no secret, and it has been reported in the media that in the past few weeks thousands of people — and I mean literally thousands of people — have been blockading the Tallaght by-pass and other arterial roads in Tallaght, sealing it off from traffic on three occasions each week at peak times. In addition to that, there have been other angry demonstrations and the mood in Tallaght, to say the least, is ugly and dangerous. There have been confrontations between demonstrators and itinerants. Threats have been exchanged between one group and another on many occasions. Fortunately until now the matter has not escalated beyond that.
This is a potentially explosive situation. It would take little to trigger off a potential disaster in that area which could quite easily lead to serious injury or loss of life, whether among the settled community or among the itinerants or both. On these occasions the Garda have kept a relatively low profile. Indeed, by reason of the very large numbers of the members of the settled community who demonstrated, they had little choice but to do so. The people of Tallaght came out in overwhelming numbers running literally to thousands. Public meetings were attended by 2,000 or 3,000 people on a number of occasions indicating the level of feeling in the area.
It is not possible to control the situation in the present circumstances. The Garda force in Tallaght, or the entire Garda force in Dublin, in my view would be unable to control the anger of the people of Tallaght at the problem which has gone on there and escalated over the past couple of years. If something is not done quickly, there is a serious danger to life and limb. I want to sound this warning note, with no alarmist intent, but in the hope and expectation that central Government will recognise this fact, grasp this nettle and undertake responsibility for it.
By reason of the depth of feeling in the demonstrations which have taken place and continue to take place in Tallaght, the halting site programme which was adopted by the county council is not capable of implementation in the absence of an overwhelming degree of force by the authorities, which would require the use not only of Garda forces but also of Army forces. This would involve pitched battles on the streets of Tallaght. As a public representative for that area I could not contemplate that for one moment, or envisage as being permitted to happen.
For that reason and having thought about this matter long and deeply, I have come to the conclusion regrettably that the local authorities in this instance, and Dublin County Council in particular, are not in a position to make any meaningful contribution to the resolution of the problem of itinerant resettlement in this new town. This is a new town with young people and a population of some 70,000 or 80,000. They have numerous problems in that area and numerous difficulties in setting up their new community in that new town.
They suffer grievously from unemployment to a higher percentage than in many other areas. The Garda strength in the area is well below the par which would be warranted by the population. There is no hospital in that area. There is no third level college in that area. There is no enterprise centre in that area. There is no town centre in that area. All there are, are the gaping holes where those basic amenities should be.
As I have indicated, the itinerant problem has increased to the extent that in this relatively small area are to be found on unauthorised sites one quarter of the entire itinerant population of the entire country. The matter will have to be tackled on a national basis, if it is to be tackled at all. Let us be clear about this. I say this, having thought about it deeply. If the matter is not tackled on a national basis it will not be tackled at all.
Dublin county is the smallest county in the country. With that concentration it is simply not possible to achieve a reasonable spread of resettlement which is a crucial precondition towards achieving the agreement which is so essential among the settled community and the itinerant community.
At the very least the adjoining counties to County Dublin must be involved in this resettlement programme and that can only be achieved if there is national acceptance of responsibility for the problem. The writ of Dublin County Council does not extend beyond the borders of County Dublin. It requires ministerial action to achieve that and that fact was recognised by the Government. I recall that a the last Fine Gael Ard-Fheis the Taoiseach stated quite clearly that he recognised the inadequacy and failure of the local authorities to do anything towards meeting this escalating problem. In his speech he indicated he was setting up a task force of junior Ministers to prepare a plan to resolve this problem nationwide on a fair and equitable basis. We have been waiting anxiously for that report and I understand it is ready now.
It must be recognised that this is a national problem that must be tackled by the Minister or by the task force with plenary powers to deal with it on the basis of fair resettlement throughout County Dublin and also the adjoining counties and the rest of the country. More than 50 itinerant families have been resettled in Tallaght in conventional housing. Tallaght has, and will, fulfil its role on a fair and reasonable basis.
I wish to thank Deputy Taylor for giving me the opportunity to speak on this important and serious matter and I wish to thank the Chair for accepting the suggestion put forward by Deputy Taylor that the matter be raised on the Adjournment.
This is a very important and serious matter. As a person who has been moving about Tallaght for many years I regard it as one of the most serious problems that the area has faced. Tallaght is now a new town with a population of between 70,000 to 80,000. This problem has developed over the past few years. I appreciate that Tallaght is under the jurisdiction of Dublin County Council but the problem was brought about largely by Dublin Corporation.
When this House was discussing the Estimate for the Department of the Environment I referred to the problems caused by Dublin Corporation. However, there is no point tonight in blaming anyone. The situation is serious and major trouble lies ahead. Unless something is done the existing situation may develop to such an extent that we may have loss of life. It behoves all of us to come together and try to resolve the problem.
Recently proposals came before the county council of which the council approved. There may have been some modifications but nevertheless a full programme was proposed and passed by a majority vote. In good faith and in the interest of having something done, I proposed that the programme be accepted but the situation has deteriorated considerably and like Deputy Taylor, I am afraid there is no hope now of having the programme implemented. Leaving politics aside completely, I appeal to the Minister to have this matter dealt with on a national basis at Government level. That is the only way a solution can be found.
I hope that as a result of this debate tonight a solution will be found. The county council and the people of Tallaght have accepted that itinerants should be housed in the general area and quite a number have been accepted. The Minister is a very humane person and I know he realises the situation. I appeal to him to ensure that something is done to resolve this serious problem.
I have only two minutes left before the Minister replies, so I shall be brief. There is no disagreement between the Deputies for the constituency that this is a very serious and urgent problem. Prophecies tend to be self-fulfilling and we must be very careful about the language we use in describing this serious situation. However, it can be said without exaggeration that there is a potential for violence in the situation at Tallaght in relation to the problem of the travelling people, and that potential for violence must be defused.
Deputies for the area met the Tallaght Community Council this evening and we listened to their views. The position is that Tallaght as a community has not the facilities to deal with any further halting sites. The requirement is that the families who are at present blocking the by-pass must go from that by-pass. The view of the community, with which we agree, is that Tallaght has done more than its share as a community to absorb traveller families and the facilities are not there to cope with any more. We are meeting the Minister for the Environment and the Minister of State, Deputy O'Brien, on the matter.
As other Deputies have pointed out, we must solve this problem on a national basis. It must be spread out over more communities, not concentrated in Tallaght and Clondalkin. It should be dealt with by involving the counties adjacent to Dublin and each neighbourhood community in Dublin must accept its responsibility. The report of the ministerial task force has been before the Cabinet. I do not know what that report recommends but I say to the Minister that it requires more than a response at county council level at this stage. It is a serious situation with a marked potential for violence and that must be defused in a constructive fashion. This we are attempting to do by meeting with the Tallaght Community Council. There must be a broader way of dealing with the entire problem than simply going ahead and concentrating its solution in Tallaght and, to a lesser extent, in Clondalkin.
I am very much aware of the sad situation in Tallaght as outlined by the Deputies. The position seems to be that some residents are seeking to have the travelling familes moved off the Tallaght by-pass while other residents from a different part of Tallaght are protesting against Dublin County Council's proposals to develop a temporary site to which the families can be moved from the by-pass. The families cannot, of course, be moved from the by-pass until basic facilities are available for them elsewhere.
The nub of the problem seems to be that at least some people in Tallaght do not want travelling families near them, even as a temporary measure, and do not seem to care that the families on the by-pass are living in unacceptable conditions which are a potential health hazard to themselves and to those living near tham. What is more, these protestors now seem to be prepared to take the law into their own hands to prevent the county council from taking action to move families off the by-pass.
There are a number of matters to be considered. Firstly, there is the matter of the by-pass itself on which £4½ million has been spent so far. Because of the families camped on it, the by-pass has not been available to serve the purpose for which it was provided, namely to relieve traffic congestion in Tallaght.
Secondly, there is, as I have mentioned, the potential health hazard and nuisance to those residents living near, and using, the by-pass arising from the large number of travelling families camped there. These residents have rights, just like everyone else, and are entitled to consideration, but this does not excuse the action of blocking part of the by-pass and other roads. Finally, and most importantly, there is the matter of the travellers themselves who, like any of us, have rights. Quite frankly, they must live somewhere. Simply moving them on would not be acceptable and would not be a solution. This would just shift the problem to somewhere else without care for the consequences for the travellers, or for others.
The only answer to the problem of travellers on the roadside is to provide them with acceptable accommodation. This is the direct responsibility of the local authorities. My function is to provide the necessary finance to local authorities to enable them to provide this accommodation whether in standard housing, group housing, or on halting sites. My role is, and the role of my predecessors has been, to encourage local authorities to meet their responsibilities in this respect. The travelling family numbers in the whole country comes to about 1,300 on the roadside. In County Dublin as a whole, there are about 400 families. In Tallaght, we understand that the numbers are about 140 families or one-tenth of the national total at most. The Minister of State has had discussions with the manager about new proposals for traveller accommodation which has already covered Counties Kildare and Meath and we can expect developments in these areas as a result.
While local authorities have made progress in accommodating travellers, their efforts have not, for various reasons matched the growth in the number of families, so that in the past four to six years the number of families on the roadside has greatly increased. However, in 1983, for the first time in years, the number of families on the roadside reduced by over 100 due to stabilisation in the total number of families and an increase in the number accommodated.
The Minister of State at my Department to whom day to day responsibility in this area has been delegated has been keeping up to date with the situation by meeting with various managers, and encouraging them to bring forward additional accommodation proposals. Some months ago he met the Dublin City and County Manager and was fully briefed on the situation and on the proposals to deal with the families on the roadside in the Dublin area — by far the largest concerntration of families. In April of this year, Dublin County Council approved a programme of 12 halting sites in the county, in addition to the five approved in 1982, making a total of 17 sites at different locations in the county. With each site capable of accommodating ten families, the county council reckon that their programme should meet the accommodation needs of those families in the area who do not wish to be housed in the conventional manner.
It is generally accepted that either standard or group housing provides the best solution to the problem of travellers on the roadside and, in fact, the great majority of those accommodated have been housed by local authorities as part of their normal housing programmes. However, many travelling families are either not yet ready for housing, or do not want to be housed, and have expressed a preference either for halting sites or, simply, to be left as they are. While settled people are often opposed to having halting sites near their homes, it is unfortunate that the high standard and quality of the sites now proposed is not properly understood. For a start, each site is designed to have not more than ten pitches. Sanitary services blocks, public lighting, water and hardstands are all to be provided to a high standard. There is also to be an effective caretaking service.
The Ballycoolin site is the only site which the county council have formally submitted to my Department, and approval to seek tenders for this was given last month. The cost of this particular proposal is substantial, but rather than hold it up, I approved of it on the basis that the county council's future proposals will involve a more economic layout, without sacrificing basic standards. I believe this is possible. I understand that the county council are in the process of preparing proposals for some of the other permanent sites for submission to my Department in the near future, and there will be no delay in examining these in the Department.
The question of national policy for travellers has, of course, been under consideration by a task force of Ministers of State, who have put forward their recommendations to the Government. I expect that the Government will be making decisions on these in the near future, and the House will appreciate that it would be inappropriate for me to comment further at this stage on that aspect of the matter.
I am aware of the difficulties which face Dublin County Council in resolving the Tallaght situation, which has now developed into a series of ugly confrontations. I would appeal to all concerned to review the positions they have adopted and to adopt a more rational approach. No one can expect that a situation which grew up in Tallaght over a period of years can be resolved overnight. It is unfortunate, to say the least of it, that action was not taken sooner to provide accommodation for the traveller families concerned but it is ironic that, when the county council have just decided on a programme of permanent sites, and on temporary arrangements, progress should be impeded by the kind of action we have seen in recent days.
It has long been a matter of public knowledge that the county council were intending to provide a temporary site in the Tallaght area to accommodate as many families as possible from the by-pass in order to meet the requirements arising from court rulings. I understand that the county council had intended to commence development work on the temporary site last week but, following local objections, deferred this to see if some agreement or compromise was possible. Unfortunately, I am given to understand that these efforts at agreement or compromise have not, so far, been successful. I have seen reports that local residents are adamant that not even one family will be allowed on to the site. If this is true, it is a very sad situation and one which in my view cannot be tolerated. While the county council have not yet, to my knowledge, decided when to proceed with the development of the site, I know they are still open to compromise on the number of families to be accommodated, and I would very much hope that local objectors will withdraw their objections even at this stage.
It is a very serious situation when people already housed assume a right to exercise a veto on who may, or may not be accommodated. The county council have had a bad press in the past because of the number of families on the roadside in their area. It is disappointing that when the county council try to do something about it they are prevented from doing so. If other local communities adopted a similar attitude, and were allowed to do this successfully, there would be no programme to accommodate travellers and a sharp increase in the number of families on the roadside. Imagine what an outcry there would then be, not just from the travellers but from local communities. I do not have a direct function in the Tallaght affair. It is a matter for the county council to decide how to proceed, but they have my full support in any action they take to ensure that the travellers are reasonably accommodated, that the by-pass is opened and that the fears and concerns of the settled community in the Tallaght area are removed.
The Dáil adjourned at 12.30 a.m. on Thursday, 21 June 1984 until 10.30 a.m.