asked the Minister for the Environment if, in view of the deteriorating condition of our main and county road surfaces, he will increase block grant allocations for 1985.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Deterioration of Road Surfaces.
13.
The point raised by the Deputy will be considered when the road grant allocations for 1985 are determined in due course.
In view of the allocations received in recent years does the Minister not consider them completely inadequate to maintain the surfaces of most main and county roads? Does he realise that the situation is now so serious that in my county — bearing in mind that surface dressing is the most important aspect of road structure — while we would need to be resurfacing our roads twice in every nine years our allocation allows us to do so only once in every 20 years?
The Deputy will be well aware that the maintenance of county roads has nothing to do with block grant. Their maintenance does not come out of that block grant, it comes out of the local authorities' own revenue which is raised within the county. There is now at the disposal of local authorities means of raising additional revenue by way of additional charges, if they so desire. I might add that it was never the case that county roads were maintained out of block grants. They can be improved through block grants but not maintained.
Would the Minister not agree — bearing in mind the case made about the legality of the rates — that local authorities are dependent on their block grant from the maintenance of those roads and that the amount of income they can derive otherwise is very limited?
As I indicated to the Deputy, the maintenance of county roads does not come from the block grants. It comes from local authorities' own resources. It is their responsibility.
Then there is no way out.
The previous Minister indicated that there was a review taking place of the roads plan, a review which would take into account the deteriorating condition of county roads. At the time he said he was aware of the situation and was examining the possibility of providing some transfer of funds to county and main roads without in any way interfering with development plans for major roads. Has that review taken place, or when will decisions be taken about it?
There is no proposal to transfer funds for the maintenance of county roads.
The Minister may not be aware that his predecessor, now the Tánaiste, gave an indication that there was a review taking place in regard to the whole roads plan, that he would take into account and bear very much in mind the bad state of repair of all county roads, especially those in western areas.
I must remind the Deputy that this question simply asks the Minister to increase the block grant allocations for 1985. That is what the question is about.
It says: "In view of the deteriorating condition of our main and county road surfaces..."——
We could discuss the matter pothole by pothole and we could spend a long time at that.
No, this a larger issue. There was an indication given to the House previously that there was a review taking place in which attention would be paid to county and main roads and special attention given them.
The Deputy should put down a separate question in regard to that.
But it is related to this.
It is not.
It is very relevant and there is nothing out of order in that.
I might remind the Deputy that every year when the public capital programme is being prepared all of this is examined. With regard to county roads, it is not intended to make special allocations available for their maintenance.
Has the review promised previously taken place?
I am not aware that a review has taken place. Certainly I have no knowledge of it.
Is it in train?
Again, I do not have that information.
If that is the case, then we were misled when a deputation came here and had discussions with the previous Minister.
When a Deputy puts questions not on the Order Paper he cannot expect answers.
If the Deputy will put down a question about a roads review, certainly I will reply to it.
I did refer in my question to the deteriorating conditions of our main and county road surfaces.
If the Deputy puts down a question asking if there has been a review of this matter certainly I will answer, but I have not got that information here.
County roads are collapsing all over the place and nothing is being done about them.
Is the Minister aware of the present position in relation to road surfaces in different counties? It would appear that obviously he is not. Is he aware also that some road side hedges have not been trimmed for some five to six years? He must be aware that if some additional moneys are not made available——
There is nothing in this question about hedges.
All right, we will remain with surfaces. Will the Minister make available some moneys from the block grants in order that county roads will not further deteriorate? If he is asking us to request more money from people in our counties at this stage I can tell him that there has been complete rejection of his Government's local charges. Is he satisfied to allow the condition of roads to deteriorate as they have been allowed to in recent years?
I reiterate that the matter of the maintenance of county roads always has been the responsibility of the local authorities out of their own revenues. That remains the position——
But what about the situation since rates were abolished?
The revenue is from central Government now.
As Deputy Molloy well knows, local authorities now have power to raise revenue themselves.
How does the Minister travel?
I travel. I am merely giving the House the facts of which the Deputy is well aware, that local authorities are——
Deputies should not get abusive with each other.
——and always have been responsible for county roads. There is nothing extraordinary about this.
Is the Minister aware of the people's total rejection of local charges? If he is, surely he cannot expect us to go back and extract money from those people? Is he aware of the situation in relation to water rates, for instance, or can he tell us here today how we can get money from these people when they have completely rejected his Government's local charges?
There has not been a total rejection of charges.
A total rejection.
In rural Ireland the average is about 75 per cent.
I appeal to Deputies to conduct Question Time in a reasonable way.
The questions are reasonable but the answers are not.
It would be much fairer if the Minister for the Environment were here. This is the third day on which he has not been in here and it is very unsatisfactory that the man who is responsible in Cabinet is not answering questions. Does the Minister of State accept that his Department have a responsibility in regard to the maintenance and improvement of county roads, or are we to take it from his reply that his Department disown all responsibility in the matter and leave it solely to the local authorities?
We are not entering into a debate. We could not deal with each question this way.
This is probably one of the most important issues in rural Ireland. Being a rural Deputy, a Cheann Comhairle, you must be well aware of the total neglect by the Government of the county and main roads. Anybody who travels in rural areas must be aware of the numerous potholes and the serious deterioration of the road system. It is a major crisis and the Minister is passing the buck to the local authorities whom he has deprived of funds. They do not have the money to repair the roads.
The Chair does not deny that this is an important matter but it is quite obvious that it cannot be dealt with in depth at Question Time. It would take hours, perhaps on an Estimate debate, to deal with this matter. Deputy Molloy was making a speech to the Chair.
The cost of repairs to main roads comes from block grants and there is provision for additional grants for the strengthening of regional roads. A number of counties have received additional funds over and above the block grants. The position with regard to county road maintanance is not new. It is the responsibility of local authorities from their own revenue. That has not changed. One would get the impression that something new had been introduced during the past year to cause this problem.
We had a Bill which deprived the local authorities of funds.
The local authorities have the power to raise funds.
I am allowing a final supplementary to Deputy Leonard, who put down Question No. 13.
Would the Minister consider allowing county councils to retain for at least one year the yield from motor taxation so that they could get the roads back into condition?
That is a matter for another Department.
Perhaps the Minister would speak to the Minister for Finance about it.