asked the Taoiseach if, in view of the pronouncements of several members of the Government in recent months on the disastrous state of the Irish food industry, he will appoint a Minister for Food; and if he will establish an investment, marketing and trading company, Food Ireland INC, to undertake the expansion and development of the Irish food industry.
Ceisteann—Questions. Oral Answers. - Food Industry.
1.
As I indicated in reply to a previous question from the Deputy on 8 June 1983, I am not satisfied that a sufficient case has been made for the appointment of a separate Minister of the Government for the food industry.
Responsible Ministers are giving particular attention to the development of the industry at the present time as the recent White Paper on Industrial Policy and the national plan, Building on Reality makes clear.
A co-ordinating group, consisting of the Ministers of State at the Departments of Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism, Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, and Foreign Affairs (Chairman) was established earlier this year, the terms of reference of which include, inter alia, the examination and the co-ordination of the roles of the Departments and State agencies involved with the food industry, and consideration of the question of joint “marketing” of the services of the respective Departments and agencies to the primary producers or processors.
Is the Taoiseach satisfied, in view of what he has said on the progress in the development of our greatest natural resource, that the proper added value is being made to our agricultural industry? Is he aware of the calls in recent weeks and over the past six months, when I put down a previous question on this subject, of most important agencies, such as the Confederation of Irish Industry, the IAOS and almost all the major bodies involved in agriculture and in food processing, for a proper, coordinated apporach which would take place only with the appointment of a Minister specifically responsible for the co-ordination and development of the food processing industry? Is there any reaction at all to the calls of those agencies to him and to his Government to take immediate and urgent action on the existing crisis in the whole food industry?
I am not satisfied with the co-ordination and the efforts of our food processing industry in the marketing area and with the failure over the last 30 to 35 years to face up to the issues involved and the accumulation of reports on shelves with no action being taken on them. I agree with the Deputy that there is a serious problem here, which is precisely why I have established the co-ordinating group with a view to examining what might best be done to resolve this problem. I am not satisfied that one solves these problems by simplistic answers, by appointing a Minister for this or the other. The problem is a much more fundamental one and must be tackled at a more fundamental level.
Surely there is nothing fundamental about a co-ordinating group? Would the Taoiseach accept the proliferation of agencies — and I am aware of at least 12 involved in this whole area of food processing, food promotion and so on — and at least four Ministers, with several Ministers of State also trying to have a bite of the cake? This whole proliferation of agencies and Ministers is causing the development of the food industry to fall between all stools. In the two years that the Taoiseach has been in Government, he and his Government have failed to take any positive action whatsoever. As a result, food imports are increasing at an alarming rate and our exports are failing to make any impact, particularly on European markets. Is the Taoiseach further concerned with the total disintegration of a food industry which is happening all around him? The liquidation of clover Meats this week is just one other example. Is the Taoiseach prepared to sit there and tell this House that he is able to do nothing further than appoint a further co-ordinating group to talk away this problem? I must say that I am totally disappointed with the Taoiseach's response to this vital matter.
I am sorry, Deputy. I recognise, as I have said, that the proliferation of agencies does raise questions which need to be examined and that the actions of preceding Governments in accumulating these agencies in this way need a through examination. The co-ordinating group are there not simply to co-ordinate existing agencies but, as I said to the Deputy, part of their terms of reference is to consider the question of joint marketing of the services of the respective Departments and agencies to the primary producers and processors, services which at present are "marketed" jointly and do involve the proliferation of effort. The Deputy is right in identifying the problem but it is about time that something was done about it and we are tackling it, which previous Governments have failed to do.
Would the Taoiseach not agree that, in view of the ineffectiveness of the actions of his Government and pending the change of Government which cannot now be too long delayed, it would be most appropriate in the national interest to transfer responsibility, for this area at least, to Deputy Haughey, leader of Fianna Fáil and let him deal with the development of our food industry?
Deputies
Hear, hear.
If that is all the Deputies can say for themselves, God help us.
The facts speak for themselves. The Minister behind the Taoiseach knows that.
The facts? Pockets of sand.
We have to deal with the actual market and that is all we can talk about. There is no more that the Government can talk about in relation to the food market, in view of the recent decisions of the Government which, indeed, put the whole food industry — and the beef trade in particular — in serious jeopardy.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
The Taoiseach said in reply to the Deputy Fahey that he was not interested in simplistic——
A question, please.
I shall get to the question in a minute.
I shall wait for it.
—— that he was not, interested in simplistic approaches or in simplistic answers. Could I direct the Taoiseach's attention to his national plan which is supposed to be a blueprint for the next three years in Government. Three weeks might be as long as the present Government will be there — I do not know. The Taoiseach's only response to the development of the food industry is the appointment of an international consultant. I put it to him, and hope he will agree, that that is a very poor response for the next three years. All we need is any consultant, or anybody with any common sense to go around our supermarkets. We do not need an international consultant to tell us what products the market wants. What we need is Government action.
A question please.
What we need is Government action and I want to know what action the Government are going to take to tackle immediately the greatest opportunity that exists in Ireland today for job creation and a reduction of imports into our economy. I hope the Taoiseach will agree that an international consultant, based on two years of inactivity by his own co-ordinating group, as he calls them, is no response. Would he agree with that?
I do not agree with that. I would point out that the numbers of years of inactivity under Fianna Fáil Governments are greater than I can add up to.
The Taoiseach is selling the people. He should accept his responsibility.
(Interruptions.)
It is the responsibility of this Government to sort out the problems which have been left——
Deputies
Out, out.
—— and to produce an effective marketing system for the food processing industry, which we have not at present got.
Would the Taoiseach not accept from me that the decision I took in the short time that I was Minister for Industry and Energy to hand over, on a pilot basis, the development of our food industry in the mid-west to an agency which was fully established, very active and very effective — in other words, the SFADCo operation — was an effective step to do something about it? His Government threw that aside and went along with another task force of Ministers. That is the reality. I wrote that in the decisions of the Department of Industry and Energy, if the Minister wants to examine the record.
In view of the very successful trade mission to Libya by Deputy Haughey and Deputies Collins and Reynolds——
Pockets of sand.
—— does the Taoiseach not now admit that his Government have neglected the Libyan trade deal and as a result of gross negligence this would have led to a complete breakdown of sales of farm animals for the whole west of Ireland and, indeed for the whole country? At this stage I would ask the Taoiseach to be man enough to stand up and compliment the leader of the Opposition and the other Deputies for their fine work.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
I am just saying that as far as I am concerned what the Deputy has said is a load of nonsense.
(Interruptions.)
Is the Taoiseach suggesting that lies are being told?
The wine lake went to his head.
Order please.
Arising out of the Taoiseach's reply which was short and contained the phrase "a load of nonsense", I will put a question to the Taoiseach that has some sense in it and not as much nonsense as the Taoiseach seems to attach to the question of industry and employment. Realising the fact that the Government are now two years in office and that approximately £400 million worth of food products are being imported and allowing for the fact that we are a nation which can produce——
A question, please, Deputy.
I am asking a question. Given the proper incentives and encouragement by the Government, if they are capable of giving it, our balance of payments could be redressed by the development of import substitution employment.
The Deputy should ask a question.
I ask the Taoiseach when if ever the Government will, in the remaining time they have in power, deal with this matter and the increasing unemployment over which they have presided for the last two years? When will the Government act?
The Deputy is far outside the scope of a question.
Perhaps I am asking too many questions.
The Deputy should ask a question and not make a statement.
If the questions are unsuitable I regret that. Import substitution in the food industry is something the Government have fallen down on badly and it would be as well for them to go the whole way in falling and let a Fianna Fáil Government take over.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
Given the heritage of uncompetitiveness left behind by the machinations of the last Government, it will be a long time before the people will want them back again. We have set out the road ahead for the next few years in the national plan.
(Interruptions.)
Does the Taoiseach accept that food imports will be in excess of £900 million this year? Considering that three or four multiples, mostly foreign based, control up to 80 per cent of the food trade in the city and 50 per cent nationally, does he agree that we are virtually totally dependent for half the food consumed in the country on foreign sources? Does he not regard that as a crisis?
There would be problems in any country where the concentration of the marketing power was in very few hands. Our party recognise that and have been committed to taking some action in regard to that which will not at the same time risk increasing costs in the short term to the consumer. As regards the Deputy's figures I suggest they include all food imports including things which we could not easily produce here like wine, bananas and so on.
The bananas are coming home.
Having said that, it is a fact that a substantial level of imported foodstuffs could be produced here or are produced but we do not produce them competitively or market them well enough. This is a major target of Government policy: to create conditions in which unnecessary imports can be substituted by domestic production. The Deputy was right to identify that. As to the order of magnitude, it is less than a quarter of the figure he mentioned but it is still far too large for anyone's comfort.
We have been on this question for over 20 minutes.
It is a very important one.
It is very serious.
Does the Taoiseach agree that the trade embargo imposed by the Libyan authorities on the purchase of cattle and food products from this country had a very serious effect on our export market? Does he agree that the embargo was imposed by them following the serious discourtesy shown to a trade delegation from Libya? The Minister for Foreign Affairs showed absolute contempt for them when they visited here seven months ago. Does the Taoiseach agree, having agreed that the embargo resulted from that event, it had a major effect on our trading prospects for the future and were it not for the recent visit by Deputy Haughey and the subsequent lifting of the trade embargo the damage which Deputy Barry and the Government did to the trade would have continued? Will the Taoiseach, in a gracious mood, offer his compliments and those of the Government to the leader on this side of the House for the great work he has done?
Deputies
Hear, hear.
Be generous.
In his relatively long statement the Deputy gave every purported fact wrong. I will not comment on them all. The Deputy can hardly be expected to be taken seriously when he makes comments of that kind. As is well known, there has not been any adverse impact in respect of the matter the Deputy mentioned——
(Interruptions.)
Cop yourself on.
The Taoiseach is losing all credibility.
——as the Deputy would know if he knew anything about cattle prices.
(Interruptions.)
Order, please. A final supplementary from Deputy Fahey.
If I put this question to a leaving certificate student rather than to the leader of the country I would have expected a better answer.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
We now have the sorry spectacle of several leading Ministers of the Cabinet — I quote the Minister for Agriculture yesterday who was sharply critical of the heavy dependence of the food industry on selling into intervention and of co-operatives for failing to cooperate with each other — making hypocritical speeches when the Taoiseach and the Government are supposed to be giving leadership. From the totally disastrous reply the Taoiseach has given to what is the most vital, strategic and urgent area of action — it pains me to have to say this — he amounts to nothing more than a disaster.
It is not my job to comment on prepared statements but to deal with questions. When I am asked questions I will answer them.
That was not a prepared statement.
I call Deputy Daly.
Will the Taoiseach not agree——
Please resume your seat, Deputy.
It is a very small point.
Deputy O'Kennedy should resume his seat.
Does the Taoiseach not agree that a miserable sum of £200,000 for agriculture marketing——
Please resume your seat.
That is evidence that the Government——
The Deputy is out of order and should resume his seat. I am surprised at the Deputy.
I am surprised at the Chair for not recognising matters of national importance.
Deputy, please resume your seat. The Chair is standing. The Deputy is completely out of order.
The Government are only providing £200,000 for marketing.
I want to correct the Taoiseach.
Question No. 2.
Deputies
Out, out.
You failed to get in.
(Interruptions.)
Order in the House, please. Please allow the Minister to reply to Question No. 2.
Disrespect has been shown to the House.