asked the Minister for Communications the details of the major accident plan which would be brought into operation should a rail accident occur involving a train carrying ammonia, acrylonitrile or other dangerous chemicals.
5.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Transport of Dangerous Chemicals.
4.
asked the Minister for Communications in connection with the preparation of contingency plans if he has considered the likely effects of a major accident involving a train carrying acrylonitrile, ammonia or other dangerous chemicals should an accident occur inside Dublin city limits or in another large population centre or if the chemical containers ruptured; and if he considers the risk involved justifies the transportation of such chemicals by rail.
6.
asked the Minister for Communications if he will list all dangerous chemicals transported by rail through major population centres.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 to 6, inclusive, together.
CIE have informed me that the only dangerous chemicals transported by rail are ammonia from Cork to Arklow and acrylonitrile and methyl acrylate from Dublin to Ballina. In addition, petrol is conveyed by rail occasionally. The safety arrangements involved conform to the international arrangements for the carriage of dangerous goods by rail.
The chemicals are carried in train loads in tank wagons by tank containers. The trains are operated to special operating instructions and all persons concerned in the operations are given special training. The tank wagons and tank containers are specially designed and constructed to stringent specifications and, before they are entered into service, they are required to be approved by a competent authority. The containers must be maintained and inspected to strict standards while in service and be periodically checked by the competent authority. Because of the stringent requirements it is considered that, in the event of a major accident involving these trains, the odds are against these tank wagons or tank containers being damaged to the extent that a leak of the chemical would occur. The rupture of a container is similarly considered to be unlikely.
Notwithstanding the special nature of the equipment and arrangements used for transporting the chemicals, in view of the likely effects of a major accident, a scheme for co-ordination of emergency services was drawn up to deal with accident situations. The scheme covers CIE, the Garda Síochána, the services of the local authorities and the health boards, the helicopter squadron of the Army Air Corps, harbour authorities, the ESB and organisations forwarding, receiving or using dangerous substances.
The scheme outlines the procedure, duties and responsibilities for the various services and organisations for the duration of the emergency. Each service would discharge its own functions at an incident, subject to the provisions made in the scheme for overall control. The local authority services and the health boards and ambulance services would take action within the scheme in accordance with their own emergency plans.
Every conceivable step is taken to ensure the safe carriage of the chemicals by rail and to eliminate, in so far as possible, all potential accident risks.
Does the Minister accept that at least one of the two chemicals he mentioned, acrylonitrile, is an extremely hazardous one? There have been several major accidents abroad in recent times involving similar chemicals. In this country the main element of risk appears to be their transportation by rail particularly across large population centres. They go through the centre of Dublin, through Cabra, East Wall and Drumcondra — perhaps the most densely populated areas in the country. In the event of a serious accident in which the containers were ruptured the likely effect would be a major disaster——
The Deputy is making a speech.
I am leading into a question.
It is a long avenue.
The plan the Minister referred to would have little real effect should there be — unlikely though it is, and the Minister says the odds are against it — a serious accident involving these tanks. Does the Minister feel the risk justifies the transportation of these chemicals, particularly acrylonitrile, through large population centres from Dublin to Asahi when they could be safely transported by sea thus avoiding, though not necessarily directly, major population centres?
The Deputy is right to be concerned about the substance called acrylonitrile. It is a very dangerous substance. When the Asahi plant in Ballina was being built the question of transporting acrylonitrile was considered in great detail. The rail option was considered to be the best one in the circumstances. I am assured that every possible safety precaution has been taken to minimise any risk there might be of a tragedy of the kind referred to by the Deputy. I have emphasised again and again to CIE the need for those safety precautions to be strictly adhered to and I am assured by them that they are. The chances of an accident of any kind are very small.
On what grounds was it decided that the best option would be rail transportation? Does the Minister accept that, if there was a serious accident in Dublin involving acrylonitrile, the likely effect of that would be a major disaster in the city?
I have already said it is a very dangerous substance. The Deputy will be aware from his previous questions to the Minister for Labour that the carriage of dangerous substances is mainly a matter for the Minister for Labour. I have responsibility for CIE and I assure the Deputy that every safety precaution has been taken. I am assured those precautions are being adhered to. Luckily there have been no disasters to date and the likelihood of a disaster in the future is very remote indeed.
Is the Minister aware that these trains pass through major centres of population such as Maynooth, Leixlip and so on? If there was a major accident it would come under the aegis of the fire service of Kildare County Council. Is the Minister aware that a report from the fire officer in Kildare given some years ago left it in no doubt that they had not the equipment or expertise to deal with a major catastrophe involving acrylonitrile? Is he aware of a report that only people in the fire service of 40 years of age would be competent to deal with a major accident concerning acrylonitrile? I ask the Minister to request the company involved to transport these dangerous chemicals at night. Very stringent precautions must be taken regarding their transportation. All local authorities should be notified when these loads are being transported. That is not the case at present.
I will consider the points made by the Deputy. I am involved in this because I have responsibility for CIE. The national emergency plan is a matter for the Department of the Taoiseach and the carriage of dangerous substances is a matter for the Department of Labour. I do not want to be involved in answering questions which are proper to some of my colleagues.
There is such a thing as a collective responsibility.
Yes, but there is also Departmental responsibility. I do not have details about the national plan or the problems of Kildare County Council. What I am aware of is that every safety precaution required of CIE is being taken by them and the likelihood of a disaster such as that referred to by the Deputy is very slim.
Is the Minister saying that the Department of the Taoiseach is the co-ordinating body for ensuring that the different component parts of the national plan are brought together? Who monitors the different agencies to see if they are prepared to deal with an accident? Breathing apparatus and various other kinds of equipment are not available to some of the fire services around County Dublin. Is it the Department of the Taoiseach which has responsibility to keep a check on the different component parts?
Yes.
Am I right in thinking that the Minister said yesterday he would ask his Department to consider if a full time inspector should be employed in these cases to make sure that all the safety regulations are adhered to?
I said that and I repeat the assurance.
Will the Minister request his officials to look at this matter again to see if at this stage rail transportation through major population centres remains the most appropriate method of transportation for acrylonitrile in particular? That is the chemical we are all concerned about.
I will undertake to have the matter further examined as suggested by the Deputy.
Not a word about the poor devils from Mayo.
Is the Minister aware that within the port of Dublin there are very stringent regulations regarding the transportation of dangerous chemicals and they are well monitored but the minute the port gates are open trucks travel throughout the country to major centres of population with no controls whatever and nobody knows what is being transported? Because of that it is very likely that some major accident will take place in a large centre of population, particularly in towns such as Naas or Newbridge.
What about Mayo?
I am very concerned about the transport of dangerous chemicals. I realise it is not the direct responsibility of the Minister but I ask him to examine the possibility of having a coordinating group who would enforce the regulations and have them monitored properly before a major accident occurs.
What the Deputy has said is not strictly correct. These matters are covered by the Dangerous Substances Act and they are controlled and monitored by the Department of Labour. It is wrong to give the impression that once dangerous substances or dangerous chemicals leave the port of Dublin no safety rules or regulations apply. Of course they do.