It is proposed to take business in the following order: Nos. 8, 3 and 10. By agreement, the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. today and not later than 10.30 p.m. and business shall be interrupted at 10 p.m. Also by agreement, the proceedings on the remaining Stages of item No. 8 shall be brought to a conclusion not later than 10 p.m. today by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only amendments set down by the Minister for the Environment. Private Members' Business will be No. 73.
Order of Business.
Are the arrangements for the late sitting and for the taking of item No. 8 agreed?
Yes. May I ask the Taoiseach if it is his intention at an early date to make a statement about the current state of Anglo-Irish relations? Will he make some endeavour to decide whether the Government are anxious to hype up or dampen down speculation about developments in this area?
No, I do not envisage a statement being made at this stage. We have no wish to hype up or to encourage any speculation. The Government are proceeding, as they have already set out in this House, to pursue the Forum report and its possible implementation with the British Government.
I cannot allow a series of questions or a debate on this.
I will not have a series of questions. I wish to ask the Taoiseach if he is aware that there is a great deal of speculation and the more innocent might be excused if they suspected that a great deal of it was inspired. Rather than have us get our information from the United States, London or Northern Ireland, does the Taoiseach not think that in a crucial matter like this it would be desirable if Members of this House could get our information from the Government and preferably from the Taoiseach? I know it is important to him to go over to London and make big pronouncements over there——
This does not arise now. I will not allow this to develop in this way.
It would be courteous to tell this House what, if anything, is afoot.
I have noted a good deal of very uninspired speculation in the last few days. The position of the Government is as I have stated in this House. We are pursuing with the British Government the issues raised in the Forum report and will continue to do so in the hope that we can make progress although we will not know until a later stage, when either we succeed or do not succeed, whether we have made the progress all of us wish to make.
Will the Taoiseach say——
I am sorry, Deputy Haughey, but I am not allowing any further debate on this.
I wish to raise another matter of some significance.
That is in order.
I know the Chair would prevent me pointing out to the Taoiseach that it was his own——
The Chair will not prevent the Deputy from pursuing anything that is in order but will insist that the Deputy remains in order.
As I am sure the Chair would not wish me to point out to the Taoiseach that it was his own reference in London to "novel solutions" that triggered off most of this——
I am sorry I cannot allow this to continue. It is not a question of my likes or dislikes: It is a matter of Standing Orders.
Is the Taoiseach aware that ten or 11 days have elapsed since the Government announced their intention to take over the Insurance Corporation of Ireland and that the delay in introducing the promised legislation has been very damaging to the country and to its financial institutions? Will he say when the legislation will be available to us and will he give some indication as to the general nature and purposes of the legislation?
I do not accept that any damage has been incurred or that there has been any delay in the matter. The expedition with which this legislation is being prepared is in conformity with the expedition with which the Government have acted previously in other difficult situations. The legislation will be available to Members of the House later this afternoon and an advance copy will be made available to the Deputy in the very near future. We have endeavoured as far as we can to facilitate and inform the principal Opposition party of the position. Certainly the Deputy is entitled to seek all information possible. We have helped him as much as we can and I hope the advance copy of the legislation will give him and his party ample time to consider it before tomorrow morning.
Surely the Taoiseach is aware that the first startling and dramatic announcements about this matter were made more than ten days ago. No matter how complex the legislation, surely it could have been prepared and brought forward long before now? Is the Taoiseach not aware that on all sides there have been rumours of enormous potential liabilities——
The House has been told that legislation on this matter will be coming before it tomorrow morning when there will be an ample opportunity to discuss it. I think it should be left at that.
I want to ask the Taoiseach why there has been delay and why all these damaging rumours have been allowed to circulate——
That will arise in the debate.
——and if he is aware that there is considerable dissatisfaction with the manner in which the Government have handled this matter to date.
The Deputy will have an opportunity of saying all that tomorrow morning.
Damaging rumours have been allowed to circulate in the ten days that have elapsed since the first announcement.
The Deputy is now making a Second Stage speech.
I am talking about legislation that has been promised on a matter that has been in the minds of everyone for the past ten days. Will the Taoiseach ensure that in the legislation——
I cannot allow this. The Deputy is anticipating the debate on the legislation.
The legislation has not yet appeared. I wish to put the Taoiseach on notice in regard to that legislation that we will be demanding that no costs shall fall on the Irish taxpayer arising from the mistakes of persons who are not as expert as——
I am not having a debate in anticipation of the Second Stage. I am calling item No. 8. Deputy Mac Giolla, please.
I am aware of the circulation of a variety of rumours and in cognisance of the fact that there are people with a vested interest in spreading rumours which can be damaging to the interests of the country, we have done everything we can to discourage them. The legislation is being printed at present and an advance copy will be given to the Deputy and to the leader of The Workers' Party in the immediate future and will be available to all Deputies later this afternoon. I am grateful to the Deputy for his initial co-operation and we will endeavour to provide all necessary information to the Opposition because it is most important that this matter be debated calmly and objectively. We will try to be as co-operative as possible in regard to that.
Deputy Mac Giolla has been trying to get in for a good while now.
The Chair interrupted my last attempt——
I am sorry, I am calling Deputy Mac Giolla now.
I protest against the Chair's treatment in this very important matter.
I must be fair to the Deputy.
I wish you would be fair to this side.
My question does not relate to the circulation of rumours but to a firm matter.
(Interruptions.)
In relation to the circulation of the Bill which we are given to understand——
(Interruptions.)
Order. Order, please.
——is a highly complex piece of legislation——
(Interruptions.)
Order, please.
——will the Taoiseach say precisely when the Bill will be circulated? Because it is supposed to be such complex legislation every hour will count.
That information has been given to the House.
We were told that it would be circulated later this afternoon and that is not satisfactory.
I did not say that it is a complex piece of legislation.
No, but the Minister for Finance did.
The question of what should be included in it has been a matter of some complexity. The legislation is not necessarily as complex as people may think.
A Deputy
Were led to believe.
The legislation will be available to the Deputy in advance in the very near future and to all Deputies before the end of the afternoon. It is being printed at present and we are endeavouring to expedite the whole process and ensure that Deputies are facilitated as far as possible.
As the legislation is now apparently being published this afternoon and as it will not be debated until tomorrow morning at the earliest and we will not have an authoritative statement from the appropriate Minister as to the full dimensions of this situation and the full extent of the liabilities, and in view of the fact that, as the Taoiseach graciously acknowledged, we on this side of the House have been entirely responsible in our approach to this matter so far, could the Taoiseach ensure that on his side of the House backbenchers of both Coalition Parties will not in the meantime attempt to secure for themselves cheap publicity——
Deputies
Hear, hear.
——of a sensational nature——
(Interruptions.)
——at the risk of exacerbating what is a very dangerous and sensitive situation?
(Interruptions.)
I am allowing an answer to that and then I am moving on.
All of us should endeavour to calm people who have unnecessary apprehensions or who may say things which could destabilise the situation. All parties have a problem, the Deputy has a problem with Deputy Flynn, and we have our problems too. Both of us have endeavoured to do our best in the situation but we cannot always ensure that everybody remains totally silent but we are all doing our best to get a co-operative and constructive approach to this problem.
Item No. 8.
This is a matter of some importance to me as spokesman on the matter.
The Deputy will have an opportunity to speak on it tomorrow.
I would just ask the Taoiseach or the Minister to confirm some details concerning the second soft loan which he confirmed in the newspaper yesterday.
That is a matter for Second Stage.
It is a situation that——
I am sorry, Deputy, I cannot allow that. I am not going to a allow a Second Stage debate here.
It is a very important aspect of it.
It may be, but we have our procedure and the legislation will come forward tomorrow morning for a Second Stage reading.
For the Minister to concede a second loan or any type of loan arrangements from the public and the financial institutions is really misleading the Dáil and the public.
I would ask Deputy Flynn to co-operate.
(Interruptions.)
I will answer it. If anything I said was a reflection on Deputy Flynn, I withdraw it immediately. It was not intentional, and I am very sorry.
I would not take anything the Taoiseach says as a reflection.
(Interruptions.)
If we can help Deputy Flynn by any kind of briefing on the point he has raised, between now and tomorrow we will do so.
I have a further question. Will the blue book which gives us——
You are going on to Committee Stage now.
Will the blue book, the summary of the insurance business here, be available today and will I get a copy of it before the legislation is introduced?
The blue book is in the final stage of preparation and will be available, I am informed, later today or tomorrow. When I leave the House now I will endeavour to ensure that it will be available to the Deputy before the end of today if at all possible.
And the details about the loan arrangements?
Yes.
Will the Taoiseach or the Minister for Communications comment on the report that money is being borrowed in a London bank, the Nordic Bank, to repatriate Irish Shipping personnel to this country?
That does not arise.
Would somebody get in touch with Mr. Tempany and tell him that there is the Industrial Credit Corporation and other banks — I presume some are left——
Deputy Wilson must resume his seat.
——who will provide money and that interest will not——
Deputy Wilson is out of order.
(Interruptions.)
Could I raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of the recent decision of the VHI to cut back on in-patient treatment for alcoholism and other related illnesses?
I will communicate with the Deputy.
Could I raise on the Adjournment the question of post-primary facilities at Mallow?
(Limerick West): In view of the indications coming from Brussels will the Taoiseach confirm that these price negotiations have been a dismal failure——
That does not arise on the Order of Business.
(Limerick West):——and will he make a statement on the matter?
(Interruptions.)
I am calling item No. 8.
(Limerick West): The Ceann Comhairle ruled out a Private Notice Question today on beef prices and now he will not allow the Taoiseach to answer my question. Where will I raise it? It is a very important matter.
I am proceeding in accordance with Standing Orders. I am calling item No. 8.
Could I raise on the Adjournment the matter of loss of interest in this country as regards the arrangements being made for the repatriation of Irish Shipping personnel?
I will communicate with Deputy Wilson.